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Because they were talking about new ending she deserves. Not only it wasn't new ending because we already had that option but was bugged and overriden by Wyll, it definitely isn't what she deserves, unless you think escaped slave being forced to come back to the place where she was abused is what she deserves. They also added new hopeless voice lines for her, this is why people are upset. We'd rather wait two more weeks for band aid solution with new quest and one extra line of dialogue than this bullshit. The avernus cutscene made the whole thing somewhat tolerable, but the new voice lines ruined the whole thing. Plus, we don't even need another solution (still, one quick quest would be welcomed), just a statement that we will get it once it's done

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What this new voice lines about is? I`m trying but cant find it in game.


Justice for Karlach!
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Originally Posted by Vincke Game God
Karlach doesn't need a good ending

She needs a good story with quests and a logical good ending. I wrote such a clickbait for a reason. Such a wonderful character Karlach has 2 big problems and a small one.
1. Narrative integrity and content fleshing out throughout the three acts
2. Weak endings that you don't expect to see because of the many hints of a resolution to her problem.
3. A community that wants a simple solution that in my mind won't work

Opinions.
From this comes the 2 opinions I want to write.

Opinion 1.
Need to flesh out her stories in every act with decent content and some great choices. What ideas I have. I agree with the author of the post at this link https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=893181#Post893181.
My ideas:
1. Throughout the game we hear about engine overheating issues. Also, we find the Soul Coins. I thought maybe it's a trick like with the maggots in my head: if I use them, the heart will wear out from overheating and something bad will happen towards the end of the game. I decided right away that I wasn't going to use them. It was also said that they are valuable currency in Avernus, so I decided that I would exchange them there (as you know, there is no location in Avernus). As a result, at the end of the game I have 13 soul coins and a strange ending, which you already know about. What can be done?
a. Long-term consequences from using Soul Coins, which wear down the engine and lead to difficult choices.
b. Give the ability to somehow use the coins alternatively
c. Add Avernus and use the coins somehow there. (Buy her out from Zariel with soul coins) An unlikely scenario due to the sheer amount of work involved, but possible in DLC. I would buy
2. Stalking by Zariel's fighters. From the beginning of the encounter, she mentions that she's being chased by Paladins of Tyr in addition to Will, that Zariel won't let up on her and will send her fighters. Where are they? They're gone. I thought there would be some content related to this. This content would have filled the void in the first and second act quests.
3. Because of the lack of content I thought it would be related to demonic creatures: Tieflings from the Grove (actually there is just a dialog with Dammon), Rafail (she just knows him in absentia, a few phrases about him), Yurgir (she just knows him in absentia, a few phrases about him), Helsik (nothing), portal to hell (I think finally there will be something for Karlach, maybe even meet Zariel. nothing) and so on. There is no content. Accordingly, you can think of something in this direction.
4. I wouldn't want to reduce her storyline to "either revenge on Gortash and Zariel or death". I don't think revenge is a weakness, revenge takes strength and Karlach has enough. I propose a general development like this. Pursuit by Zariel fighters - Some quests up to act 3 (not just "bring hell iron") - place Gortashu/Zariel - mend the heart in the bad and good 1000 ways written about earlier. This is nothing more than an idea, my 2am fantasy can't come up with much more, so suggest options.

Opinion 2.
Only after the storyline is fixed will we see the character's growth, the development of her story. And only on that basis will the Good ending everyone is asking for become logical.

To summarize the options are two
1. Creating a well-developed story and quests over the course of three acts. I'm in favor of this option and if you put a Like here, it means you want this option too. I'm willing to wait as long as it takes and I realize it's a lot of work. I would even buy it as DLC, but that's just my personal opinion
2. A "small quest" in the third act that would give an option to fix the engine somehow. These are some of the 1000 named options.
Ask Dammon for help, as he promised
Steal tech from Steel Watchers
Ask Gondians for help.
Make a pact with Mizora.
Make a pact with Raphael
Ask Gale or any sorcerer to conjure some spell
Buy her out from Zariel with soul coins

Disagreement
The main fan requests that I disagree with:
1. "Add a small quest/just a new ending" It won't solve the problem. The strength of the game is that there is more or less a coherent story and character growth. In my understanding Karlach has a problem with this. We need to create clear scenarios from the first act to the third act so that the new solution doesn't look like a "Band-Aid". That's the kind of thing I see Karlach Justice as, and that's a lot of time. I think it's gonna take at least a year.
2. "fast. Fast. FAST." No, better slow and deliberate.
3. "Needed instead of a bad ending." The current endings are not bad. There just aren't any others.

I'm with you and support this 100%. Well written!

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The new voice lines are added in act 2 and 3. Basically Karlach gives up and is ready to die which not only wasn't the case before patch 2, but also is a spit to the face alongside "we did everything we could" because we literally didn't try a single thing

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Originally Posted by Feris
The new voice lines are added in act 2 and 3. Basically Karlach gives up and is ready to die which not only wasn't the case before patch 2, but also is a spit to the face alongside "we did everything we could" because we literally didn't try a single thing

Hh, so in this case Tav should try even harder if he cares about Karlach, but he's obviously not allowed in act3. This is exactly why I would like to wait until DE with proper questline, than quick hotfix quest.

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They can literally add a loot from steel watcher, that fixes her issue. Her 2 quests are literally fetch quests that can be completed in 1 minute if you prepare first, why can't her last one look like that too? If they want to rewrite her story in DE then sure do what you want, but there is no way im waiting year or whatever just to feel Im playing an actual RPG where my choices actually have impact on characters, and not some joke from telltale

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Originally Posted by BitterSchizo
They can literally add a loot from steel watcher, that fixes her issue. Her 2 quests are literally fetch quests that can be completed in 1 minute if you prepare first, why can't her last one look like that too? If they want to rewrite her story in DE then sure do what you want, but there is no way im waiting year or whatever just to feel Im playing an actual RPG where my choices actually have impact on characters, and not some joke from telltale
Yeah we get it, you can't wait and want some low quality fix. Make a mod or beg someone to do it for you, thanks. I'd rather wait for quality.

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Although I completely understand your frustration (and I agree that it�s ridiculous that we even have to talk about a sheer lack of choice in a choice-based RPG when it comes to Karlach) asking for a fetch quest to fix Karlach�s story sounds unreasonable to me. It�s like, I dunno, covering a pothole with cardboard - looks a bit better but is still shite.

Also saying that adding one quest won�t take long is a bit ridiculous, it�s not like they just gonna add a few lines of dialogue into WordPad and call it a day. I think adding even one quest comes with a lot of work so it won�t bork the game logic etc.

I more than anything want Karlach to be happy and for that I�m willing to be patient. We need to be respectful and we need to keep this thread alive.

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Agree with Raz here. We�ve already got one band aid solution and it made things if not worse than not very far from what we had originally. It felt rushed, Karlach was completely out of character, there was no way to interact with her, she didn�t even acknowledge you as a love interest if she was your romance option.

And although I appreciate Larian recognising us and doing something, well, no thanks, I don�t want another band aid solution, I�m happy to wait for a year or as long as it takes. And if later in the future we realise that nothing was done / nothing will be done, my pitchfork will be ready.

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Maybe, but if creating just one quest was so much the game probably wouldn't release at all. And Im calling for the easiest of the easiest that are to add and create. Just to give the players who invested so much time anything

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I make some meme about Karlach Ending Problem.
Be honest, even if this form of media is a little� childish, I still think that meme is a one of the best way to make a noise and bring ideas in humans heads. If you look on Reddit or other social network, you will see that posts with a meme inside taking really many looks. They fast and easy to understand product. So I make some.
You can use any of them freely without make a link or something on me. Just use it as you want. Post it on social network, use it in videos� do as you like, I`ll be glad.
(If someone saw first two on Reddit, this is not copyright, i`m creator of this two meme)
https://i.imgur.com/EKKegCf.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/15iaEyQ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/L0tF2ht.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/woLHQGZ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/BXCjy2H.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/K05pC3d.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/10TI4OU.jpg


Justice for Karlach!
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You made me laugh) That's really cool

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Thanks. I'm trying to send some of them (2 and 6) on Reddit... but just get a bunch of negative comment and minuses, especially for 6 (even deleted it).
Don't know, it's because anti-good-Karlach-ending people on Reddit so active, or I did something wrong...

Last edited by Raidzu; 11/09/23 05:00 PM.

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Originally Posted by Raidzu
Thanks. I'm trying to send some of them (2 and 6) on Reddit... but just get a bunch of negative comment and minuses, especially for 6 (even deleted it).
Don't know, it's because anti-good-Karlach-ending people on Reddit so active, or I did something wrong...

That's probably cause at this point it's a dead horse and Larian is ACCUTELY aware of our issues with Karlachs story.

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Originally Posted by Raidzu
I make some meme about Karlach Ending Problem.
Be honest, even if this form of media is a little� childish, I still think that meme is a one of the best way to make a noise and bring ideas in humans heads. If you look on Reddit or other social network, you will see that posts with a meme inside taking really many looks. They fast and easy to understand product. So I make some.
You can use any of them freely without make a link or something on me. Just use it as you want. Post it on social network, use it in videos� do as you like, I`ll be glad.
(If someone saw first two on Reddit, this is not copyright, i`m creator of this two meme)
https://i.imgur.com/EKKegCf.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/15iaEyQ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/L0tF2ht.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/woLHQGZ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/BXCjy2H.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/K05pC3d.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/10TI4OU.jpg

Great idea in my opinion! Memes are now an important weapon in any media.

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It will be dead horse once they actually show that they are willing to do anything, instead of doubling down on their horrible and disrespectful writing like they did in patch 2

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I just don't get why we need some re-write of the story, it's not like her quests are horrible. I never even thought about this, she has issue with an engine - find something to fix it. Simple as that. So if that's the case why can't last quest also look like that

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Okay now I don't understand what you mean. People are calling for some god knows what re-write of the story, when her story and quests are even that bad. Sure other companions have them much more complex, but hey their problems are also much more complex? In Karlach's case she just needs to fix her heart and you just need to find something that solves the problem. That's it. So Im calling for something exactly like this

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I think its more to do with the obvious potential that Karlachs story has just kind of ...sitting there. yes another fetch quest could Solve the issue of her ending and if Larian goes that route id still be grateful for it. but I think most of us want something akin to shadowhearts temple of shar, or astarians cazador mansion or even Lazels Creche. a section of content that fleshs out her story and gives some good closure and player choices to decide her fate. like even just a raid into avernus using that shopkeep in act3 like the house of hope to get something to fix her heart? or somehow even replace her engine with her REAL heart. that would be poetic and beautifully fullfilling IMO.

Last edited by Norrec69; 12/09/23 01:30 PM.
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This is very interesting comment I found in different thread in this forum:

"Based on interviews and the art book, Larian didn't really know which direction to take Karlach. Apparently, she went through three significant versions. The aristocratic sharpshooter version who people through was an EA placeholder, the "Cool Karlach" who was a bit grimmer and tougher, and then the one we got, who was apparently pretty much based on the voice actress' charisma and delivery. Class-wise, they did not know whether she'd be a rogue (first version), sorcerer, paladin, or barbarian. Additionally, the general... oddities of the infernal engine idea (is it in her body, easily removed, why don't we ever see it? the cutscenes feel like something from 2010) make it clear it was a pretty late development. I think the voice actress has said she had no idea what the infernal engine was or that Karlach's chest was basically glowing."

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