Originally Posted by Puglio
Originally Posted by Randy McStud
Originally Posted by Firesong
That stat issue is something I also encountered in PF:WotR, where the main stat to pump for one character is intelligence (or wisdom, depending on background, 3.5e is extremely complicated when it comes to building), though.

RP-wise it's even right that a CHA based character is the face of the party, but I also feel a bit like "mostly it's CHA based classes for your main" here.

But I don't think addressing Larian is right, the problem lies much deeper in the D&D rules, which don't currently allow replacing CHA at least with INT or WIS (something that 3.5e allowed to SOME degree between INT and WIS).

Yes, it is in part the ruleset, but if you can role for stats, with patience, you can still get a respectable charisma score on your main regardless of class. If you ever rolled for characters in Solasta, you will be aware that your total stat budget can be dramatically higher than the standard array. Also, when it comes to skill checks, charisma based roles in combat are FAR more common than any other skill check.

Also PF:WotR had the advantage that any party member can take a skill check in most cases, regardless of who is initiating the dialogue. Its certainly way more complicated rules wise (personally, I liked the depth), but I never felt hamstrung by the need to play a high charisma character or have my RP options significantly restricted.

I have played Solasta, and even when you can roll to your heart's content it's not really possible to have high scores in more than three, and most classes have three combat stats (wizards need Int, Con, and Dex for example). There's no room for high charisma. I have rolled a lot. I've even rolled three 18's. But getting four high scores? Never seen that.

The point is I don't really think stat point-buy is the reason for charisma classes being popular. It's simply because there are a lot of charisma checks in the game, and passing them makes for a much more satisfying story (in addition to making some really tough fights a lot easier).

I have very rarely seen all 6 scores 13/14 or higher (I cannot recall exactly). But it is definitely possible to get 4 scores 16+ with roles before modifiers and no score below 10, albeit its pretty tedious (you might take 20-30 mins). With point buy using the standard array budget, you get no higher than 15 before modifiers and a far lower overall score. Few classes need more than 3 stats for mechanics, so getting a respectable charisma score is possible, far more so than with point buy at any rate.