Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Hill Giant Strength Potions

1. So a lot of martial classes don't get an equivalent attack score until level 8. Which is pretty far into the game.

2. The "significant" cost being referenced is not significant. It doesn't touch the fortune my party has amassed, at any rate. And that's only talking about the ones that have to be purchased, as opposed to found or stolen.

3. I don't particularly care about what items were or weren't invented for the game.

4. It's the abundance of the items coupled with the way they last until a long rest. In other words, all the time.

5. The dex based fighter/ranger/monk/whatever doesn't even have to bother using their main stat for 8 levels of a 12 level game.

6. The pact of the blade warlock is using strength instead of charisma in melee for the first 8 levels of the game.

7. The headband of intellect is not the same. It takes a head slot which is a very valuable resource that could be used otherwise. It also happens to get the score *equal* to what a starting character could get, and can be surpassed in the first 4 levels. It's not even close to a valid comparison. (The opportunity cost of an elixer is nowhere near the same.)

8. It's just a bad design. Whether that bad design stems from Larian or DnD is irrelevant, in my opinion.

The Headband of intellect used to set int to 18. It was nerfed to 17 because people whined that in EA it used to make raising int irrelevant for a mage… which is in fact a stupid argument, since you don’t want to go all the way to the endgame with a low int Wizard only because you had what’s broadly considered a crutch-item in the beginning.

And head slots arre not “extremely valuable “ at all. It takes a whole lot before you start to see items of some significance there. I had my barbarian sitting on a “+3 m movement” until Act 3 or so, because there weren’t really that many better options.

To this day I still have half of my party wearing borderline pointless stuff in that slot just to not have it unused.

But that’s beside the point. It doesn’t change the fact that popping almost 400 gold PER-character on a daily basis only to get a +1 in their main attribute is absolutely NOT what I’d describe as cheap or money-effective.

Especially since ALL THAT AMAZING GOLD your party saved doesn’t even cover for a fraction of the ACTUAL good shit for sale by the time the player hits Act 3.

Okay, Tuco.

If you are a Dex based fighter/ranger/monk, you would get nothing out of the elixier apart from maybe a higher carrying capacity and the bladelock can use their charisma stat right when they get their subclass, so again, why would they need a strength elixier? You don't play half of the game with the wrong stats and then change your playstyle completely.

That bladelock is going to build 8 strength, then drink the potion and have 21 strength, and use their strength stat for all attacking and damage rolls because it's higher than their charisma, which was at best only 17.
They aren't playing with the wrong stats, they're playing with extra stats. They don't WANT to use their charisma, it's not high enough in face of the potion.. They'll still build charisma, for their spells, but they'll use strength for their melee.
It's not a comparison between a bladelock who built strength and one who didn't, it's a comparison between two bladelocks who made strength a dump stat, but one has 21 anyway, and that one will outperform the other.
Rather than progressing their melee effectiveness by raising their Cha at levels 4 & 8, they'll be level 1 with level 8 effectiveness using strength, and neglect to use their charisma until it's already 20.
Same for the monk and ranger with dex. Anyone doing melee can use str. It has no impact on their playstyle, only what stat is used for the rolls while using the same playstyle.

Likewise you'll have barbarians that dump strength, build up dex and con instead, then have 21 strength anyway.
All that extra unarmored defense in return for one little potion per long rest? Time to trivialize tactical difficulty

As The Old Soul says above.

The way the game works is that the weapon attack/damage uses the highest score. A dex based fighter using finesse weapons will still *default* to the strength score if it is higher than the dex score. Same with the pact of the blade warlock. It's just the game mechanic.

So a dex based fighter using the potion doesn't actually use dex until around level 8. And then the dex is just equal to what the strength has been the whole time.

The entire point is that the potions undermine the martial builds. They're abundant. They're long lasting. They're easy to get. And they're not expensive. No one's saying every character has to use them after every long rest, but having one character use them consistently breaks the basic fundamentals of the character build.

I played barbarian and NO, I fucking wouldn't. Because the last thing I want is to play a game in this genre and being expected to waste hundreds of coins at-a-pop every time I decide to rest for whatever reason.
And that's assuming one uses just ONE martial character, otherwise you can multiply the money sink.

Especially because in the early game running out of resources is comparatively trivial (hello, TWO spell slots!) and far more frequent. "Potion of strength" or not.

You are all getting a hang-up over a completely fictional issue.
What would be the "best practice" you are suggesting as alternative? Having the potion locked behind an ACTUAL real-time countdown of 60 minutes, in a game where everything else isn't and time outside of the occasional turn-based encounter isn't even a concept?

And the consequent benefit? You'd be actively encouraging the player to:

1) skip dialogues as fast as possible to maximize effectiveness
2) avoid any sort of inventory management to not waste 30 minutes out of these 60 looking at your bags
3) to actively save and QUIT the game if they get a phone call or are forced to a pause for whatever other reason.

...for what gain, exactly? Not having that hour extended to, say, two or three at most? From 18 to 21 STR it's a PLUS 1.

I mean, it's not like it can't be done, but at some point you need to ask yourselves "Why am I even bothered by this pointless bullshit?"
Are you actually going to pop a potion daily, every rest, for each character, until you get to level 8 or so?


Some of you, the same people who were far more dismissive about far more serious gameplay issues in the past, too.

JandK is the same guy who in the previous episodes:
- defended the horrendous chain system and the lack of control over your characters while exploring in real time as if they were some endearing, quirky quality of the game.
- didn't think a reaction/interrupt system would benefit the game and advocated for its entire omission from the game ("Just get rid of counter-spell, I don't care" was more or less the exact quote).
- still thinks that HULK-tier six-meters shove as a bonus action is a great addition to the game's flow.

but now he's incredibly concerned because a CANONICAL D&D consumable has its duration marginally altered.

Tuco, can you take it down a notch? Seriously, what is wrong with you? You're on the constant verge of having an aneurysm.

Is it really that hard to understand that other people might have an issue with something you don't, or that they don't have an issue with something you do?

There are more solutions under the sky than the "60 minutes" silliness you proposed above. But it's just not worth discussing with you. You've got problems that seem to go beyond these forums.

And ps... there's nothing wrong with the chain system, which millions of people seem to be able to play with just fine. Shove works fine and has for a long, long time, as I mentioned before. And the reactions, while a nice addition, were not necessary "or the game will be broken beyond repair and the sky will forever fall on the rest of tomorrows," which was more or less your quore.

I said, "Okay, Tuco" in a post above to attempt to agree to disagree with you. Leave it at that.

Nah, I'm not.
It's called "projecting".

And most of them to dislike it.
I mean, I can "play with it just fine" as well. Hell, given that it's not my first minute around past Larian games as well, chances are I'm better than you at using it effectively.
I'm just not under the delusion that this is enough to make it a good system.

Okay, Tuco.

I think it's pretty low impact, there are no giants in the game so to make the potions you have to buy the parts, and since it takes three I have never been able to make them. And on your characters that it would be useful for, like karlach, it's essentially a plus one attack and damage bonus which isn't a lot. I guess it's strong on shadowheart but let's face it you probably aren't using her in melee anyway as she only gets one attack per round unless you are doing a melee multiclass, which is unadvisable as she doesn't have the stats for it and there are not enough potions for her to always be juiced up.

I know no one who played like this. It isn't even necessary to do that. You get well through the content with your normal stats.
And if people want to waste all their hard earned money on those potions instead on the really nice stuff, you can buy, well then let them. I don't play like that and as I said, most people I know, don't play like that either.

Honestly the main thing I'm getting from this thread is that some of you are long resting ridiculously often.

These potions are abundant.
You can give your martial character(s) free 21 strength every long rest and get all the way from start through act 2, if not also all the way through act 3, without ever buying a single potion.
You won't need to. There's far too many you'll just loot, and the few extras you'll make after looting the ingredients.

The only way you could manage to make using these potions seem like you're wasting too much gold, is if you long rest after literally every fight, maybe even sprinkling some cases of doing half a fight, fleeing, resting, then going back.
And doing that with a party of 4 melee's instead of using any casters or archers.

My first tactician run is definitely going to be an 8 strength barbarian because I know I'll be able to potion my way through the entire game without buying a single one.
And I won't be the first person to have done it.
Because we'll actually do multiple fights in one day like you're bloody supposed to.

The money argument is just ridiculous on its face. There are so many of these potions and even if you buy them, they don't even dent the party's wealth. I'm having a hard time even taking that seriously.

Make them last a hundred turns, maybe. Make them as scarce as some of the other elixirs. Something.

As a player, I personally don't want to use them because I'd prefer to rely on my actual stats, but I feel ridiculous in every combat knowing I have so many of them sitting around. It really makes me feel like my stat choices are obsolete.

It's just a bad item due to the abundance and long lasting nature. This is blatant and obvious.

I mean, sure, I could probably finish the entire game only with autoattack and cantrips, if I hated fun and tried hard enough.

I went through the entirety of EA without even "discovering" Astarion was a vampire spawn, once.

Ok, JandK.

There is SOME vague truth in the absurd claim, incidentally.
I wouldn't say the item itself is BAD, but yeah. It's at least a SUBPAR option when I can fill my "elixir slot" with something far more valuable that a bland +1 STR proficiency I can obtain natively with ASI.
Like an Elixir of Bloodlust giving me 5 temporary hitpoints per turn AND refunding my action once per turn after every kill (absolutely trivial to achieve, as a big beefy barbarian).

Bloodlust is an example of an elixir that exists in moderation. There are far fewer of these throughout the game, which is a good thing.

Yeah, i just checked: I have 5 elixirs of Hill Giant in inventory after using probably one or two in total so far.
Meanwhile I have 2 elixirs of bloodlust unused, but guess what, enough reagents to craft 5 more. The game also puts the average price of the latter below the former (for whatever weird reason, because it's clearly more valuable).

That aside, imagine taking seriously any attempt to leverage the argument "We have too much money anyway!"
...said with a straight face, too, when you reach the third act and the city and there's a WHOLE COLLECTION of items on sale often ranging between 8 and 20K EACH one, all far from negligible trash and that are absolutely worth buying if they fit your build(s).

Chances are no one will ever have enough for everything, let alone money to WASTE for minor benefits over temporary consumable.

I don't like the abundance of 21 Strength potions, 17 Int Headbands or 18 Dex gloves for the single reason that they override character stats. Character stats should always matter.

That said, the potions are fine if they had their duration cut and made less abundant. Gulping a potion and throwing someone is a valid move. Fun, even. But it should be about tactical use of a limited resource, not a persistent chained effect that affects character builds.