Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion Shadowheart Romance and the Hidden Fetish - (Spoilers inside)

Well my good people of the internet, I think we're beating a dead horse here (I'm not saying that you all have to stop sharing your opinions, please don't misinterpreted my comment). I'm personally out of this discussion, I think we've all made our point clear.

I also think that this problem (if it's a problem at all) should be looked by Larian's team (if they're willing to do it, they don't owe us nothing, we already have the game, though it gives them good press to do it.. ) and if they consider that any of what has been discussed here would improved the game, act upon it.

If anyone got offended by any of my comments, apologies.

And as user Madguise said:


I think we should all put a ticket about this.

When I got a bit of time. I'll play the game again (I didn't stopped playing only because of SH & Halsin, honestly I feel I was playing to much. Maybe that was my excuse to take a break?), however, regardless what we might think or even get to feel to a character, they're just a blender models and wall of codes behind it all.

Have a great day y'all.

PS: Sorry for my bad English, I'm sure there's typos in every comment I made.

Let's not re-write how this play out. The dialogue tree brings you to the proposal from the drow to have sex between both of them and you and your partner. At this point you have the clear option to go with "yes" or "no". Shadowheart does not express any interest to go along with this until you actively press "yes" to this proposal, at which point YOU have made the decision to move your relationship away from a monogamous relationship. Only after you have made this decision about your relationship status does horndog Halsin inject himself and the disapproval reactions occur. There are really no confusing flags or messages in this whole scenario, you have made the conscious decision to take your relationship with Shadowheart towards sexually experimenting with others. Her enthusiasm or preferences as to who she wants to include in these sexual games are inconsequential at this point, this is what you wanted!

So based on what you say, I think we agree on this one. What sort of relationship you want with Shadowheart is very much up to the player and there is no scenario where this just happens out of the blue or by accident.

No offense taken here. If my arguing was a bit brash at times I did not mean to take you down or anything. I sincerely think you should continue with your save and experience this story, because there are so many really good moments that you will remember. Even if one part ticks you off, don't let that one thing sour your whole experience, it will fade away and you will remember and cherish the good parts.

I'll post it here also since the 'kinkshaming' Facebook people have been brought up

https://streamable.com/07l78r

All they need to do is remove the disapproval(actually after reding papers comments this might be fine) and that one party banter, maybe touch up the dialogue in the actual 5some as well but, that's not something im interested in so maybe its fine with people that are

That saved file is in the Shadow Realm by now.

I think all these situations could've been easily solved by making relationships between Tav and [insert Companion's name here] reacts more to Tav's decisions. We're the players and even if it sound selfish, we should be able to influence to whatever story we wanted to play on this ROLEPLAY game.

We want to be loyal? It doesn't matter if I go the the brothel and even asked for sex (because this is a game, and sometimes we just want see what will happen), if by that point we haven't flirted or show any type of unloyal behavior through the game, our partner should feel offended (if their monogamous) or surprised (if they're into polygamy). Not to have a character that showed so much romantic and honestly, cliché moments; salivate themselves to other companion, unless said companion is also your lover (if doesn't mather if that lover is big old daddy Halsin, or underrated but without a doubt, sex symbol Withers).

Now if we're an ass*ole through the game, cheat on our partner and are overall a bad person, punished my Tav and turned him into a voyeur.

I also think they should make it as if you're on a serious relationship with a companion, they shouldn't be flirting, and being seductive with anyone.

All of this should have been easier without polygamy, honestly. But I guess that sex and taboos sell. And maybe there's people that enjoy that part of the game (but for what I've read, here and elsewhere, not lot of people like it).

It feels like there are 2 Shadowheart personalities when it comes to interactions with party members from early access and new one added in full-release. Such inconsistency is a sign of poor writing or lack of time to consider everything. I would be nice to if it gets addressed by Larian but I don't think it will happen.

You did an excellent job summing up what many of us think. This is exactly the kind of things that ruins one's experience. You are developing a character and a story alongside, if once of the thing you are building up sucks, it's totally okay to feel that everything doesn't seem right, the experience is ruined or at least incomplete. No matter what decision you make, they basically bottleneck everything into two particular things, both equally fucked up, if that's not what you wanted: SH flirting with Halsing and SH disapproving if you reject him.)

I mean, they should have left different options and paths depending on your decisions, like with many other things within the game. But this feels straight up manipulated. Okay writer/develop, you decided to put your little fetish in the game, or even yourself in it, but that doesn't mean you should force those decisions and trigger action that doesn't fit with the playthrough one is following.

I'm not saying they should delete this, I'm saying the companions should behave (like they already do in other circumstances) according to the players decisions, paths, actions, etc. If they are reaction and evolving in a certain way, well be consistent, don't try to fit something where it doesn't fit. If someone is ok for whatever reason with this (maybe it is a fantasy of their, maybe they just want to have fun, they are role-playing as a promiscuous boy/girl...) it's okay, it's alright, but that doesn't mean everyone should do the same.

And the problem isn't really solve by ignoring those things, because they are already there, underneath. Like I said in another treat, it's like having your drunk friend over and hiding the beers, he ain't getting buzzed, but that doesn't mean he won't get drunk as soon as he sees there is beer in the house. He won't suddenly be sober for the rest of his life or learn to control himself just by hiding the alcohol.

Really, really hope they fix this thing along with the other companion's problems (coff coff Karlach). We have been supporting a lot this game, I know they can't fix all from one day to another, but I really for them to fix all this in the future.

I am going to attempt a helpful and considerate response for everyone involved in this discussion. If it seems inconsistent with things I have written earlier, well thoughts and perceptions develop over time so there are aspects where my standpoints can shift.

First of all to address the emotional aspect involved which cannot be disregarded. If you develop an emotional attachment to the character Shadowheart in the game, the attachment is going to carry over to your real emotions and you can't help but react to things that you experience. To validate everyone's feelings involved, Jennifer English, the VA of Shadowheart expresses these things on a deep emotional level in an interview
here
Go to the timestamp for "emotional scene" and a word of caution that this can hit too close to home for some.

Now with validation of feelings and emotions involved, let's also make it clear that feelings are not facts! This doesn't mean that I dismiss your feelings for anything but real, just that they aren't the same as facts.

The fact is that if you are playing a monogamous romantic storyline with Shadowheart, that scene is not intended for you. That is intended for a different audience. The companions are dynamic NPC's, which means that there are different versions of Shadowheart for different audiences. The player has a degree of control over which version of the dynamic NPC they want so that the story can cater to different audiences. In comparison to the Kagha storyline that OP mentions a few times, Kagha is not a dynamic NPC, all audiences get the same Kagha.

Different versions of Shadowheart for different audiences does not necessarily need to be consistent with one another, but of course, if some key parts of her character background is suddenly completely disregarded it becomes jarring and the writing that has been done to adapt the character to the audience isn't very good.

Those who follow a classic romantic storyline between two people involving Tav and Shadowheart get a very consistent experience, with the exception of the banter between Shadowheart and Halsin, which I must honestly believe is a script error that shouldn't be there unless you are pursuing the polyromance arc, it makes no sense otherwise. I know I played that down in my earlier responses based on my personal feelings about the whole thing, but again feelings aren't facts, so how I personally feel doesn't matter. It carries gravity no matter how I feel about it.

For my experience playing through the game with a romance arc that involved only Tav and Shadowheart where Halsin wasn't even around in act 3, the delivery was very consistent and satisfying. And that's my greatest advice for everyone to take away from here, the other versions of Shadowheart that aren't intended for you doesn't matter! It is the audience that want the Shadowheart that indulges in casual sex together with Tav and others that gets the inconsistent experience, but I doubt that audience cares that deeply about consistency because they just wanted to feel some stirring in their pants. The existence of an inconsistent Shadowheart for a different audience should be their problem, don't make it into yours.

Agreed, there's different versions of SH (and probably also of others characters) and you're probably right that is not intended to monogamous audience. But what if you happen to stumble upon that scene as a monogamous player? you would, at the very least, think that it doesn't make sense with her character.

You're basically telling us to turn a blind eye, and I think developers shouldn't allow monogamous player to find that scene. If they intended to do poly/exotic relationships, they should have a least have some kind of code/safeguard that preverts monogamous player to got even the chance to find that scene, and also with the flirting, if certain conditions are met, i.e. monogamous, high approval level, romantic scenes unlocked, characters (not just SH) should stop flirting between themselves.

I think you're seeing her 'heart' and we're seeing her 'shadows'. And she got lots of shadows, try a playthrough and don't recruit right away, you will find her a couple of times through act 1, look the way she treats Tav (specially at the grove). She's written in a way that if you're not feeling sympathetic with her (simping her), she's stray mean/annoying to Tav, and that can be seeing as a way of manipulation.

But that's just my opinion, and might be even wrong...

Yes, but if you disregard the emotional investment, this isn't any different from any other choice and consequence you encounter in the game. If you don't like it, or regret it, you just re-load and pick a different choice. This is why I needed to acknowledge that emotional attachment will trigger feelings, which you can't just re-load. So my advice is to remind yourself that this isn't the same version of Shadowheart as the one you are attached to (and don't get too attached obviously, she is not real and it's just a game!).


I think it is set up to not just happen because you stumble upon it. I am no expert on every possible route to the Sharess Caress interaction, but as it was for me the story steered me there long before the completion of the Shadowheart romance (when she will still decline to any suggestion involving the drow sex workers). It was also very obvious what this interaction was about. So later in the story, once you have completed Shadowheart romance you would need to make the conscious decision to return to Sharess Caress (which has no other quests tied to it at this point) and engage this conversation again to trigger that scene. I mean don't play the fool, you know what you are doing at this point. But there may be other paths or possibilities that lead to this, it's a very open game, so I am not going to say anything for sure.


You are not wrong. In fact, even if you recruit her and treat her nicely, psycho-Shadowheart will eventually appear, planning to kill Lae'zel in cold blood and blame it on the tadpole. And she will go through with it unless you talk her out of it.

But she's fixable, which is the appeal of her story, the character development and growth.

In my case in particular I never got 'emotional attached' to her. It simply broke my roleplay experience (I wasn't even that far into her romance). And I think the 'solution' would be to make her romance (and any other character) in a way that behaves in the player's choosen relationship type. Not to turn a blind eye, but whatever. As you said, companions should be dynamic, and that is not dynamic at all.


You're talking from the perspective of someone that knows that interaction, what if I didn't know about it and for whatever reason got to that area of the game with all the conditions met for that to happen?

What about any other possible interactions like this one that hasn't been discovered (if there's any)?

It's simple. I think they should have implemented so kind of 'monogamous-player path' or something.

Thought to be fair, as I said in a previous post. I've never got that interaction myself, so I don't know the conditions.


And that may be why posts like this one exist. With her grow and development, she shouldn't be willingly accepting that interaction, unless that Tav has clearly proof to be a poly.

Yeah, I don't have very extensive knowledge about the paths and conversations in this scenario. I have boundaries around anything relating to traficking that I can't roleplay such scenarios. I just know how it was in my playthrough where it was very obvious from the start what this was about, for which I was grateful, so I could quickly decline and move on. Anything else is just what I gathered from what people have posted.

Larian have made a big deal about how there are a lot of consent checks in the sex scenes so you can stop what is going on. I think that checks out for the scenes I have played so far, but I would have to refer to someone else for this particular scene.

Okay, so let's sum up everything, shall we?

First, let's clarify a couple of things:

1. This is a video game, no matter how real it feels, we have to understand SH (or any other character) won't pop out of the monitor, so we can have some kind of Blade Runner 2049 experience. But that doesn't mean we can't fully involve ourselves into the story and have the best roll-play experience ever.

2. This (among other related topics) can either go in one of 2 directions: Larian could listen to the community and allow this dynamic we want; or they could pretend none of this is happening and everything (at least for this matter) remains the same.

So, with that in mind, let's continue...

There should be options for both perspectives (poly and mono). It is not like we are demanding something that hasn't been established by the game (both things are possible and allowed: being poly or mono), but we are arguing about how the game bottlenecks or narrows at some points, basically forcing you to take just one.

Let's gather the evidences we have so far:

1. SH was abused during her Shar life, she was "forced" to do things in the name of Shar. Like a brainwashed religious person. So, if she had casual non-sentimental carnal relations with other Shar followers, it was for the name of Shar, not by willing. She "didn't care" since it was Shar willing.

2. Halsin is a terrible-written character, who's primary purpose is being a forced sexual joke. Always harrasing the MC. You can deny everyone else, but him. There is always the option for an open sexual-relation with him. You can deny everyone joining your party, but him... again. And literally most of the things he adds to the game are things that one can figure out without him.

3. SH will reject being a spare-lover with any other companion but Halsin (suspicious). Why can't she allow someone else? Or be consistent and reject everyone? It's like saying, "I don't want anything casual and forced anymore, I want you full... but ummm let's give Halsin a chance, so it would be easier to approach that wild bear later"

4. She goes with all the "you and only you" BS, and how she found herself with you by her side... but after finishing her storyline there is that banter where she is LITERALLY flirting with Halsin like WTF? Can't the game tell I didn't sleep with anyone else? It just breaks the roll-play experience one is following

5. It is true that going to the twins (and knowing the context) you shouldn't expect more of her if you decide to sleep with them (even Halsin). But why isn't there a voice line to reject the idea if you are following a mono path?

It is more than obvious that someone decide to put his little fetish in the game and wrap it round HS and Halsin. And IDK maybe this person dreams with people watching him, so we are "watching him" through Halsin. Disgusting...

I really like this game, honestly, it drags you to experience the full adventure (in all senses), but when you are building something, following certain paths and then something like this happens is just... it feels odd, like something's missing.

So, what options we have? Kill Halsin? Let the goblins kill him? Never talk you him? Let the shadow-lands with the curse?

That just means narrowing the game more, having less options...

So, we ignore all that, we don't talk and reject those twins? We get rid of Halsin right after SH learns to swim? Yeah, it could work, but we are just pretending. The moment we include Halsin that banter will pop-out. The moment we talk to the twins we know the only answer SH give no matter how mono the relation was. Worst if Halsin is included, like okay we are open to snacks but only if we both feel comfortable, oh look! Halsin wants to join... how dare you say no? DISAPPROVE! Like apparently if you go poly you are forced to like the bear, otherwise people dislike you.

And even worst, okay you decide to take Halsin, once into the room you are just a snack, Halsin is the real king in the house. And suddenly SH reveals she's been dreaming about him (and was lively), even if she literally spent the last night with you, and until that moment you've been playing mono. Consistency people, like please.

Well... finally, how can Larian fix all this? I won't go deep (not like Halsin, jk jk) But here are some ideas, simple ideas (is not a big topic that requires hours and days of thinking):

1. Fully allow mono and poly, and respect the players decisions. Is a roll-play game, the system should react according to the player's decisions, not the system deliberately telling the player what they have to choose.

2. You went mono? You rejected Halsin n-times before the end of HS arc? Furthermore, you didn't cheat with her? Then don't trigger the dam banter

3. Allow people to reject Halsin from joining your party (if he doesn't add anything for you), we don't need to ignore him or kill him, just let us say NO

4. Allow people to be poly with HS and different companions, not only Halsin (unless you actually want to respect her story, then don't allow this option with any companion including Halsin)

5. If you went full mono and for whatever reason decided to talk with the twins, show SH disapproval by dialog or a simple "SH disapproves" message... so you are respecting what the player built and the consequences of being horny all of a sudden

6. If you decide to go poly (and according to point 4), is a mutual agreement, so... if you get to the twins and (unless your spare-lover is Halsin) don't force me to accept his offer and don't show SH disapproval. You want, I don't, I only want the twins (you want them too), but I don't need Halsin, so (game) respect that.

7. A similar scenario (point 6), but now you are "dating" Halsin, well... NOW show the disapproval. You are eating that meat, but SH can't? Come on dude...

8. Now let's say you are poly but also a son of a gun and decide to cheat on SH (you didn't ask her). First, don't say that "you and only you BS". Second now show that banter. Third, show her excitement in the brothel when Halsin decides to join, and of course show the disapproval if you refuse. You can be a bitch, but she can't? Again, come on dude...

9. And finally (but probably not last), you were mono, but then you cheat then repeat the point 8.

There...of course there could be more scenarios, but I think these 9 points sums almost everything. So you respect different paths, different decisions, everyone is happy. If someone gets to a scenario they didn't like, well, that's the player's fault. Don't want SH to be a whore? Then why are you behaving like one (acting like a second Halsin).

So I really hope they fix all this, along with other companions problems. I am a developer my self. We once changed a client system in the company I work for, we thought it would be for the best, but no... a lot of clients started to sent bad reviews and complains, they wanted the old system back, but there were those who wanted the new system to stay... what did we do? Simple, we deployed both options, and everyone's happy in that regard...

I think we should do as Madguise said and put a ticket for Larian about this topic (since more and more people keep complaining) and hope for the best.

Anyway, thanks for reading, and sorry for my poor lexicon.

I agree with majority of points that has been discussed here. This particular dialog in that particular context doesn't make sense and contradicts her romance arc development. I hope Larian will look into this problem eventually.

In regards of leaving feedback, Larian has a whole thread for it on their Discord server too, you can post your suggestions there as well.

The entire dialogue makes even less sense if you decline Halsin beforehand. I don't play with him in the party because I can't stand his character but tested it out. He still jokes about joining in on the next 'swimming session' toward Shadowheart even if you declined him. And wants to join in on the orgy regardless of you declining him beforehand. And Shadowheart is the one that initiates it if you had the beach scene before talking to the twins.

Couldn't think of a more blatant self insert by the writer. Which is a shame, because he wrote Shadowheart quite well. Even if there's a severe lack of commitment to the relationship as shown by the mediocre epilogue despite multiple heart to heart moments. Now we know why.

Well, with that information revealed I am just going to concede and bow out of any further discussion. Halsin is toxic af!

I am a sex-positive person with no issues with what goes down between consenting adults, but I will be keeping Halsin firmly stashed away out of sight and out of mind after he has done his part for the plot in any playthrough. He doesn't do anything for me anyway, I prefer cute boys!

It's actually really bad if you read it all in context. I'll quote the entire conversation from declining Halsin to the Drow scene. Will put it in spoiler tags because it'll be quite some text.

Declining Halsin during long rest:

A fair exchange I suppose. You can decline him with any of the options, it doesn't matter how you do it, but the second option is the most logical and the third way seemed like the one where it's most clear that you want a mono relationship even if you're forced to admit interest for some reason (why is the second reply regarding the relationship not instead of the first?).

Proceed to the next night where I got the chat with Shadowheart about her still feeling the Shadowfell followed up by the beach scene.
I then kick out a companion to add level 1 Halsin to the party.

Few steps into Wyrm's Crossing and the following exchange happens straight away.
So he straight up hits on Shadowheart after you decline him, knowing full well you want no part in it based on previous exchange. Good writing!

Then you get to the Drow twins:

Proceed by having both of them disapprove. It's actually quite unnerving seeing it in full context. You make no push toward it, just merely asking questions to the Drows, Shadowheart suddenly pops up showing interest (why???), which can make you feel pressured into accepting. Then Halsin pops up despite your wishes and when you decline they're both unhappy with it? It's 100% written in a way that implies that Shadowheart has a thing for Halsin regardless of how Tav (you) roleplay about it, and shows Halsin as a super pushy sex addict that doesn't take no for an answer and will actively try ruin your relationship.

Edit: Typo.

Now to be fair, this is a problem every character have when you add them to your party later on. They will have conversations between them, and talk to you like if you had history with them. I recruited SH in my current playthrough (she won't last much tho, Lae'zel will fight to death with her) at the goblin camp (It didn't make sense to my Tav not to do it after what happens in that cinematic) and proceeded to exhaust her dialogue, and in one of her answers she told my Tav something like "we've been through a lot, what you want to know"; when she literally didn't have 5 minutes on my team. I would like they eventually look at that too.

And what I find annoying is that they don't put some kind of safeguard to prevent those interactions (when you're not poly). Especially if such interactions can literally destroy/change how you view a character (It's like reading a long book, and in the last chapter, the character do the opposite to what they were doing on previous chapters). And the same can be said about the flirting.

I think that the problem isn't SH but Halsin, for what I know, people on EA wanted to have a romance with him and somehow they made him the way he is rn. I dislike the way that, of all characters, he seems to be the one that does what he wants and not what your Tav wants. I mean, Lae'zel (that is a Gith), you can convince her to consume tadpoles. Lae'zel! the character that hates mind flayer the most, and Halsin (from what I've read) is a lot lest flexible in how you can influence him.

And I found funny how even people like me (that play in a 2 people team), can *potentially* find that scene. Because Halsin joins my camp without me consenting, now if he wouldn't interfere in any way, shape or form, like Withers, it wouldn't mind. But do you honestly think if they force me a character, I won't eventually use it? Meaning that even when I was intentionally avoiding teammates, my Tav (possibly) could get that drow interaction. I don't what else to say regarding this. lol.