Originally Posted by Ixal
Originally Posted by Cawckiest King
Originally Posted by SeaCat
I also feel like the whole 'Daisy' bit was a fake cover to avoid spoilers for such a huge plot point. Something to keep players off the trail of what the game designers had in store.

There are countless damsels in distress stories, pretty faces looking for love, himbos, and bad boys/girls among the countless games out there. Baldur's Gate 3 currently has many great options to sate the desires who desire something more...mortal. The Emperor however is something utterly else, and its a bold step in writing that I want to see more of when it comes to romance writing.


I don't think "Daisy" was a fake cover, I think she was just an early prototype of the idea they were playing with that ended up getting changed, which is common in big projects like this.

And honestly, I don't really know why people think "Daisy" was so much better than the Emperor, narratively speaking. I much prefer the current Dream Guardian/Emperor. The cutscenes with "Daisy" were so atrociously forced and awkward in tone and decisions you were allowed to make that she was genuinely one of the worst aspects of early access.

Both Daisy and the Emperor act as a tempter/temptress trying to get you to do their bidding but Daisy just felt like the equivalent of a cardboard cutout mustache-twirling villain that you can see for what she is from a mile away. The Emperor, by contrast, is a much better manipulator.

Even when you've seen all the "good" and "bad" versions of the cutscenes involving him, its never truly 100% clear which of his actions are manipulations. Yes, you could say that him romancing your character and behaving emotionally open and vulnerable is just another manipulation on his part.

But if you basically call him a monster during the potential romance scene and
he shows you visions of mind-controlling his past "allies" in Baldur's Gate and only treating them like puppets, asking "aren't you glad I refined my methods and didn't just mind-control you also?"
there's really no way for you to know if that isn't just another manipulation to the tune of "if you want to see me as a monster then I'll let you think I'm a monster".

He is far more powerful and far more experienced in his Illithid abilities than you are, so you really never know where the manipulations end and the truth begins. That makes him far more interesting than "Daisy" was ever portrayed to be, imo. Personally I'd love to see them expand on him more, but maybe Larian also wants to keep some of that ambiguity around him and his motivations. Still, it'd be nice to have more content involving him, considering he is literally THE only "companion" on your journey that the plot absolutely cannot do without (I say this, as having done most of the game as a solo run/without party companions).

Every other ally on your journey in terms of characters you can recruit and work alongside on a deeper level are 100% optional. Yes, even Shadowheart.

Because
with Daisy there was an actual danger from the tadpole and there was a struggle going on in your head. If then also Orpheus had chimed in it would have been even more interesting.

With the Emperor the entire premise of the game "tadpole bad, get it out" gets thrown out of the window and the tadpole, despite all what the game tells you, becomes something positive and you are stupid when you do not put more of them into your brain

The Emperor represents a massive dumbing down of the story and removal of all consequences which makes the game much, much worse.

I mean I can understand the frustration of dumbing down/removing consequences for using/embracing the Tadpole. It does feel weirdly removed if you accept the astral-touched tadpole and end up with your character having some big, ugly black veiny spot on their face that basically nobody seems to notice how freaking weird you look or react to your illithid powers if you use them, even if I understand how much more work it would be to make reactions to that everywhere from a technical standpoint.

But "Daisy" was really not any better than the Emperor. She's a walking red flag from the moment she shows up, which really just makes anyone who doesn't have brainrot go "why in the ever living heck would I ever go along with what this very obvious, evil temptress wants me to do?".

Yes, the Dream Visitor is sus, but does a much better job of lulling you into a sense of security, narratively speaking,
while not actually intending on wanting to cure you. He's obviously fine with you becoming a mindflayer and a pawn, just not someone else's mindflayer pawn. Especially not a mindflayer pawn to a few casual mortals, instead of illithid being in charge.

"Daisy" was just a shamelessly one-dimensional "don't you want UNLIMITED POWAH? LULUL" plot device.

Last edited by Cawckiest King; 13/09/23 07:14 AM.