Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion Halsin Romance, Expectations and Obligatory Poly

Where are all those people who love him as is and are loud about it? To be fair, apart from some fan-fic thirst posts on Tumblr, I've only seen valid criticism about how he turned out.

Those people are a minority no matter how loud they are, trust me. But that shouldn't worry you, what does present a problem in regards to Halsins writing is who will the writer listen to. And seeing how that dude leans towards bear memes, certain writing decisions (Shadowheart cough cough) there is a chance that he will not deliver.

But I do hope I'm wrong because it's a really sucky thing to see people wish Halsins romance into existence only to be slapped in the face with it being the opposite of what they wanted.

@Cowoline screw those a-holes who talked down to you because of your trauma and how halsin's trauma was treated. As for the louder fans, are you referring to discord? https://files.catbox.moe/7zymih.jpg It looks like Nika (who created those nice valid critisizm on Halsin on tumblr, that John saw) is on the site with you and active. I swear, all we need is you and her to keep posting about Halsin. Both of your posts are articulate (I saw your feedback post and it was excellent) .. https://files.catbox.moe/z9kc3a.jpg I've also saw multiple people recently mentioning Halsin's sound bug. Yet when I search Halsin's name on discord, it's mainly people saying how they don't like him, or that he hits on them, and that they prefer another NPC companion over him. In reddit people don't like how his romance played out, they especially don't like the drow scene

there's this place, and then twitter. twitter is..eh, a lot like tumblr when it comes to this fandom. @Rotsen, we're stuck with john I think since he created Halsin. He could re-write him like how he re-wrote Shadowheart. Time will tell, once more, patch 3 won't have any new Halsin content. The most you can expect his sound bug being fixed. The team were on their vacation as of September 2nd, but they're back, and Halsin's VA is on his on the 14th today. Which means since the game's release the writing team wasn't making new Halsin content. They've been back from their vacation, so right now, they're writing, but once patch 3 is out please don't expect any new Halsin content

This might little off topic but you're talking like it's not a full released game... 'they'll fix this in the 3rd patch'. I know lot of people seem to have in good faith Larian (and they seem to care about their fan base a bit more than other companies) but they're a business and you
the client; you bought a full released product. If they needed more time, they shouldn't had launch the game.

However, I'm pretty sure it has to be REALLY HARD to make a game like this. I know they had the game in EA for a couple of years (I think were 3, right?) and probably they were working on it for longer than that. And I supposed they probably had investors wanting the game to be released but as customers, nothing of that should matter to us.

And not to throw hate on them. I really liked DOS2 and have never heard anything bad about Larian. But I liked DOS2 so much because it was a complete product. In this game (and specially when reading posts) if doesn't feel like a complete product...

On principle you are right, but they are a business. If they had delayed release, Starfield would have stolen their thunder even if it's a far inferior game. This is the basics of hype and marketing. Larian released the game with an unfinished Act 3 because financially it made the most sense, they released in a month with zero competition, on a year with serious RPG draught, so they timed their sales around that factor. And it paid off for them, massively. Now we just gotta hope they reinvest that money in polishing the game.

Yes, it's bad games don't release polished anymore, but the alternative is far worse. When the types of games we love don't sell as well as expected or underperform, it creates a chilling downstream effect on the industry. It was vital that a CRPG game shatter sales records and be in the running for GOTY to make sure this genre revitalizes instead of wilting away as more shitty multiplayer online shooters/PVP games with microtransactions swallow the gaming market.

And despite the state of Act 3, this game just blows away the competition in the RPG field. It's not even close. That's an accomplishment.

I consider that it is not a completely launched game at the moment that it does not fulfill what was promised by Larian in the interviews very close to the launch, in any case this is not the topic of this thread, you have many to talk about it with links to the interviews even.
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@Cowoline there are very stupid people on the internet, I think I saw what you are talking about and it made me very angry, because you also explained everything very well and justified it very well, so don't pay them any attention.

I haven't seen many people praising Halsin's writing, on the contrary I have seen a lot of criticism everywhere like ours. He makes sense, he was a character highly requested and expected by the community and we found a tremendous bluff. The ones I've seen with the Halsin memes are players who don't really like the character and just want the bear scene because it's outrageous. But they are the least, among other things because it requires many hours of play and involves a lot of sacrifice for what it is (I have seen the videos and it is not that big of a deal), while you have most of the players very angry with Halsin, because It also negatively affects his poor writing in the romances with other characters. Add in that the players who want a well-done romance with Halsin are not few at all, and you have no excuse for affecting the number of players or noise. All of this also explains why he is currently such an unpopular character: we fans don't play him because he is poorly made, the others who perhaps could play him end up hating him for what he does in the romances with his favorite characters. And yes, I think Larian knows all this and will solve it and will fix it sooner rather than later (I think patch 3 has possibilities)


Larian don't forget the sexy druid first notice

I have no expectations. It's easier that way. I'll keep bringing Halsin along on every playthrough, enjoying his flirting, being flattered when he hits on my character... and turning him down for Gale or Astarion. That's just how this game will be (until someday maybe it isn't - maybe).

In my playthrough he's destined to not leave the goblin camp alive. And who am I to opposed destiny?

I think poor Shadowheart is also destined to go crazy and unfortunately die too.

It's true, people who practice the kind of free love Halsin says he likes are in the minority. People like me who find him to be good rep of what it's like being ethically nonmonogamous without the option to agree to monogamy, we are in the minority in pretty much every context we step into. Monogamy is by far the norm. I wonder if it's jarring for Halsin coming from a polynormative society instead of a mononormative one? In my mononormative society, most people want monogamy, and monogamy is what's supported when I look at important stuff in my real life, from legal stuff like marriage and kids and to cultural stuff like propositioning people for romance and dates.

Of the people who like what Halsin likes in intimacy, players of video games are a smaller portion, people playing BG3 a smaller number, and people romancing Halsin a much smaller number. There will definitely be many more monogamous people interacting with Halsin's romance than nonmonogamous people. There will then within that small percentage of people who are nonmonogamous (or RPing nonmonogamous characters) be people who like and want structured polyamory, like a closed triad or long-term partnership commitment. Of players who romance Halsin who are alike to him in terms of nonmonogamy, those who chat online are an even smaller, smaller number. So I don't doubt at all that the majority of players will hear Halsin's, "This is how I am, I hope you like that," and will answer, "No I do not like that." And I don't doubt at all that the majority of comments online will be coming from people who are not like him and would prefer he be changed by his writer.

I'm realizing, this might be the only time monogamous players have a conversation with a nonmonogamous character who declines monogamy like this. Is it a totally unique story to Halsin? Has any romance in a video game had this type of character before?

It seems like it's been really jarring for a lot of players to run into a character like this. It's a bummer that not receiving the open-to-monogamy character that was expected by early access players has created feelings of discomfort and disappointment. It's a bummer that there are comments like the ones that say or imply Halsin has a disgusting fetish and is immature for how he practices nonmonogamy in this thread on a site where real people who live like he lives can read it. What you like is not what I like. And that's okay. Nothing to be done about that.

If a Halsin who accepts monogamy gets patched in, I'll be curious how it's something the character released to us handles it. It would be sad to see his current characterization go away. At the very least, having all his wonderful field voice lines trigger when I click on him would be really really nice for players like me who always have him in the party as soon and as often as I can. I want to hear him reminisce about the chimera. Love this dude.

I’m hopeful they will make changes. DOS2 was not a “complete” game without its faults when it came out. I’m saying this as someone who absolutely loves DOS2. I have gifted that game to so many friends because I think everyone should play it at least once. I’m pretty sure I will still be thinking about DOS2 when I’m old and grey because I love that damn game so much.

That said, it was quite a wreck at launch. I played on launch day and I ran into so many game breaking bugs and issues. A couple of them stalled my play through for days. There was a particularly bad one where I couldn’t even get to past a certain point because the game would lock on Malady’s boat. It didn’t matter if I started a new file. It would always get stuck at the same point. Let’s not even talk about the sad state of the final act back then. BG3’s launch is so much smoother in comparison.

But the changes they made to DOS2 are what gives me hope they will treat BG3 well. The definitive edition is excellent! Even the base game was very good. The level of support they provided was above and beyond. Larian really knows how to treat their games well.

I’m not expecting a full Halsin overhaul. I don’t think he needs one. He’s got a great foundation as a character. Just some things need touching up and expanding on. The main change I would like to see is the one involving the Drow trauma. I won’t stop voicing my opinion on this matter because It’s just so distasteful and uncomfortable. How could they write Astarion’s trauma so well and then sweep Halsin’s under the rug?

This discord user here put it pretty well. https://discord.com/channels/98922182746329088/1150249736624930916

Men’s trauma isn’t taken seriously and it’s just sad. I really doubt it was the writer’s intention to minimize trauma and make it seem like Halsin fetishizes it, so hopefully they can tackle the issue in a more mature and respectful manner. If he’s given a chance to take feedback and make changes, I am certain Corcoran will write some good changes. Even some of the greatest books in literature required revision and several passes before they were finalized and realized.

He has shown himself to be very receptive to feedback both with the shadowheart changes and his tweets on twitter! Halsin is all over his timeline. If that’s not a sign of a writer who is passionate about his character than I don’t know what is.

Don’t let what other people say make you undervalued or pessimistic. You’re valid. Trauma should always be treated respectfully and it saddens me that it’s not always the case.

Poly relationships span the gamut from structured, living-together families to loose networks of people who don’t cohabit, with all sorts of configurations in between. These relationship forms reflect their members’ varying needs for structure or flexibility, for cohesion or independence, for touch and contact or private space.

Veaux, Franklin; Hardy, Janet; Gill, Tatiana. More Than Two: A Practical Guide to Ethical Polyamory (p. 41). Thorntree Press. Kindle Edition.

...

Hidden within different types of polyamorous relationship structures are some very different ideas about relationships in general: about autonomy, community, entwinement, romance, sex and partnership. Poly people tend to speak of these different approaches as existing on two axes. One axis runs from “free agent” to “community-oriented.” The other runs from “solo” to “entwined.” They sound alike, but they are not.

Some poly people consider themselves free agents. That is, they value personal autonomy highly, place importance on the ability to make their own decisions, and present to the world as able to act without requiring permission from others. The model of free-agent poly can be difficult at first to understand. It’s easy to make the mistake of thinking that free agents don’t commit, or don’t consider the needs of their lovers (or their lovers’ lovers), or don’t care about community. This isn’t true. In reality, the free-agent model places responsibility for decision-making, and for bearing the consequences, on each person individually.

For instance, your partners may tell you how they feel about your desire to start a new relationship, and you may listen to them and decide not to go ahead with it based on what they say; but the choice is yours, not theirs. You evaluate their concerns, and then you choose. The extreme end of free agency is called “relationship anarchy,” or RA. It’s an approach that rejects the need to categorize and rank relationships at all (“Joe is my friend; Mark is my boyfriend; Keyser is my husband”) or to create rules or define roles. In particular, RA does not privilege sexual or romantic relationships over others.

On the opposite end of the scale is what some call a community-oriented model of polyamory. People who adopt this model focus on the interconnectedness of their relationships and their community. You might think the difference between free agents and community-oriented polyamorists is about independent action vs. consensus, but that’s overly simplistic. Free agents, and particularly relationship anarchists, emphasize the need for negotiation and mutual benefit over the idea that there’s a “normal” or “right” way to have relationships. It might be more accurate to say the difference is in the priority that’s given to different factors in the decision-making process; community-minded poly folks tend to prioritize the impact of a decision on the entire group over the needs of the individuals in the group. This doesn’t necessarily mean that community-oriented people must have their partners’ permission to start a relationship. However, decisions are made with an eye toward how, say, a potential new partner might fit with the others.

The other axis, from solo polyamory to entwined poly, looks similar on the surface but reflects a completely different underlying set of values. People who embrace solo poly present to the world as single at first glance. They are off the “relationship escalator”: the assumption that relationships follow a defined course. You meet, fall in love, move in together, share property, have children and grow old together. Solo poly folks may not want to live with any partner, or if they do, they may not choose to share finances or property.

By contrast, other people prefer relationships that are more entwined: practically, financially or both. These people value sharing living space, spending time in close proximity, sharing financial or household obligations, and so on. They may see themselves as part of a unit, a single family that shares responsibilities together and approaches life together. So the scale from free agency to community, then, is about decision-making within a relationship, whereas the scale from solo poly to entwined poly is about the form that the relationships will take.

Few are on the extreme ends of these scales. It’s more common to encounter people in the middle—for instance, who like living with a lover but still prefer to think of themselves as autonomous individuals, or people who pay close attention to how well potential partners fit together but still make relationship decisions themselves.

Veaux, Franklin; Hardy, Janet; Gill, Tatiana. More Than Two: A Practical Guide to Ethical Polyamory (pp. 41-43). Thorntree Press. Kindle Edition.

...

Imagine yourself as a tree. Your roots go deep into the soil; it nourishes and supports you. They’re fed by the rain, which keeps your sap flowing. Your leaves are bathed in sunlight, which provides energy. The wind brings pollen from other trees, so you can produce seeds and fruit. Maybe there’s even a bird that builds a nest in your branches, raises a brood and is gone by fall. Each one of these things—soil, rain, sun, wind—does something different for you. None are interchangeable. Lacking one, you might wither and die, or at least fail to flourish. With too much of one, you might suffocate.

This is a metaphor for your relationships. Some people—the people we might call anchor partners, but also perhaps our parents or siblings or best friends—ground us, stabilize us, support us. They are the ones we know we can always turn to. They’re the soil. Others may be more variable, but no less crucial: the energizing, joy-bringing sunlight. The cooling, cleansing rain. The winds that bring you new ideas and draw forth your creative force.

Veaux, Franklin; Hardy, Janet; Gill, Tatiana. More Than Two: A Practical Guide to Ethical Polyamory (p. 37). Thorntree Press. Kindle Edition.

...

Could bringing forward these options for a shifted vocabulary around Halsin be useful to his fans? I really don't know lol. But here's to trying!

Referencing the metaphor from this book, occupying the position in his life of Halsin's soil seems to be a popular aspiration.

Personally, my problem isn't about Halsin being poly. My main problem (apart from how he sort of leads you to believe he wants something deeper than what he ultimately gives you) is about how he tells you to share your heart with others because he doesn't want to hoard you to himself, but doesn't even give you an option to say "No, I don't want that. I only want you too."

If he can say "I only want you", then I should be able to say the same thing to him. If he's poly and want to roam and whatever, fine, Tav can accept that, but that doesn't mean he should coerce them into doing the same thing.

I am one of those who think that Halsin does need a complete review, not only the trauma is that the character, as I have stated in previous points, has no reactivity and does not have meaningful dialogues. That the topic of the drow is a thread in itself, I totally agree, but it falls within what we were talking about: the lack of coherence in the writing of the character.

Where he is saying something that seemed like a skin trauma, suddenly because of the memes it becomes something desirable. He's the only character you can't tell your feelings to, he's the only character you can't leave with even if he says he'll wait for you, he's the only character you don't have a relevant way to interact with... and he happens to tell you one thing to the opposite all the time. Then it has a great lack of content, the other day I saw a video with all of Halsin's interactions including scenes cut 1 hour long. Look at the other characters. How he affects the rest also has to do with the introduction of him at the last moment and in a hurry: he forced to make forced dialogue inclusions in a hurry and rush. The result is not pleasant.

And we return to the same thing: Halsin in dialogue gives you the option of no cop (I only want you) the problem is that you cannot react to it, even though your character has not asked for cop at any time. And I think Larian should have foreseen that if the majority of players are monogamous and ask for Halsin, they will want a monogamous Halsin (even if you put the poly option for whoever wants it, which I think is wonderful). Or that Halsin was going to get some hate for screwing up other characters' monogamous romance. I also had to have foreseen that a complete romance and a complete character were requested because giving what they have given is not including a romance with Halsin, it is including a relationship with Halsin.

That said: I hope they fix it and do a somewhat serious rewrite, because these things (with the lack of ending, no consequences, mithala, (this character has fixed things but he was as pitiful as Halsin), Halsin, third act on general) make this game for me not mythical, not at the level of the greats of the genre.

My main problem with Halsin is everything: not giving the player options in anything is one of them. In general he is a character who had some lines of dialogue done (it can be seen in the sound changes) and they have introduced certain things with funnel that do not go with the initial personality.

And no one asked to have sex with Larian bears, which I think is fine if you put it in if you want, but once you finish the character's work. Do you want to put poly options? I think it's great but have the mono option because most of the people who asked you for Halsin are cute and keep in mind to take good care of both versions. As with the other characters, no more no less, you have different options to choose from and different paths to take and they are well crafted. And of course, if you have a character who joins late, the romance is late, it takes so much effort on the part of the player to get to it... make it complete. Yes, it requires you to put a lot of Halsin in the third act and without time, And? Spend more time on that and less on bear sex for the sake of making noise. Right now the romance is rushed and without depth. As much as Halsin says that his heart is not easily moved and you are an exception, all the messages in the game, the inconsistencies, the rush and the end is that "dear Tav, we have to talk, you are not an exception and you are another notch in the belt "

Well, I do actually agree with you 100%. I, too, would like a serious overhaul of the character because there's A LOT of things that doesn't make sense about him and the way he's presented. I'm just trying to be realistic here, Larian isn't going to rewrite Halsin. It just seems highly unlikely. So instead of thinking too much about all the things I feel is wrong, I'm trying to boil it down to what I feel is most important. Which, for me, is a way to share Tav's feelings with Halsin, and for Tav to be able to come with him at the end. Just a small thing like that would, in my opinion, do a lot without requiring an entire rewrite. Hoping for a rewrite is hoping for too much and setting ourselves up for disappointment.

I don't think it's expecting too much, Mithala is already having changes, not enough but she had quick improvements. I hope that Halsin begins to have the same treatment and that they correct both characters.

As the game stands, the third act suffers from a lack of work hours and that includes Halsin. I don't think Larian is not aware of this situation and it is not good for a game to prolong it because the more people who come to that event, the more people will protest. Do you know, for example, that the funnel inclusion of the obligatory poli Halsin affects the romance with Shadowheart in the third act? Or create phrases on other characters that other players find unpleasant? They are having protests not only from Halsin's fans so yes, I think they will fix it

You keep using the word relationship, and I think this nails down the problem.

Halsin himself says it is not a relationship. It comes and it goes, it's fluid and it happens whenever you feel like it or the other person happens to be around. It is a person you care about and have some affection for, but not someone you build a relationship or a future with.

This has a name: Friends with Benefits

As polygamy goes, this is what the connection to Halsin is.

You had tons of players asking for a romance/relationship with him. And that can take many forms. But this isn't a relationship and that is part of the issue with it.

It's momentary amusement and passion, that at the start is given the wrapping of a deep and lasting connection, where Halsin eludes to only involving himself in things he DEDICATES himself to.

And what does Halsin say? "I will not ask you to dedicate yourself to me".

Another thing is; Why do you add a character on player feedback that have gotten so attached to a character that they have pined for him for three years, and then make it fleeting?

I see your point, but it rather seems like you are missing the point as to why people are dissatisfied and making it about representation rather than what it actually is: Poor implementation of requested player feedback

Isabella from Dragon Age. She is exactly that, but she is up front from the beginning. (And before anyone says this is not true, there are lot of hints of this being the case in books, comics and DA: I )

Lae'zel is for the most part, until she paradoxically changes her mind

The Red Prince from DOS2 is also this way.

Arguably Iron Bull, depending on your choices

Several characters in graphic novels.

It is not a unique representation, but it is a shitty one.

It was Larian who indicated that Halsin was a character with the same relationship with others, not just sex like the drow, she could have announced it like that but she didn't.

The affairs and adventures do not come from polygamy, by the way they have nothing to do with it.

Halsin tells you that and you forget about the rest: I only want you and I only need you. I can't imagine life without you. You have moved my heart which is very difficult, I don't need to continue, right? If that is a bummer Halsin is manipulating Tav and her feelings, if that is so Halsin's romance is a romance with an evil character and let's remember that Halsin is a good alignment. And if. All of Halsin's interactions are an invitation to monogamy and then give the player no choice... And the worst part? Give the message that it is Tav who maintains the relationship like this although you have never given the player the option of anything else, although as you are seeing most of the players want something else

It is expectations that are set up that get a massive flip on their head - and that's the problem.

It's poor writing. Like they got to act 3 decided to make him a romance and then shoved all the kinks into him, just because.

Representation of relationship anarchy is fine (Laezel), but Halsin was the wrong choice for this representation given the reason for his inclusion, and the direct clashes with his earlier writing and personality.