Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion Halsin Romance, Expectations and Obligatory Poly

I think we all agree that something needs to be done here. But do Larian even read our feedback? If so, where do they read it? Do we even know? I mean, where's the best place to actually try and make a difference?

I am "spamming" here, on discord, one comment to the writer on Twitter... I have no clue if they're reading this.

Maybe Tharrow will be lucky and they get to keep his romance as is.

And then it's the waiting game for me to hope another video game comes along with a LI I adore.

I would think they always come here and read player's feedback consider this is their official forum lol

I sent feedback through their form asking to add the option for Halsin to have a mono relationship. As with any feedback, they may or may not take it, but it is worth a try!

Then I see posts like this and I wonder if these people actually paid attention to Halsin's romance at all: https://discord.com/channels/98922182746329088/1152198697476689960

These people keep using the word "relationship" completely ignoring/oblivious to the fact that Halsin states on several occasions is not that. And then they act as if it is the polygamy or the polyamoury, which lies at the heart of the conflict. I seriously hope the Larian team are actually reading our posts and what is being said instead of this assumption that the issue is "people don't like polyamoury" instead of what it is: poor character arc, conflicting dialogue and values, contradicting behaviour, and complete negation of the agency of the player character. Added with some really disturbing "coping" mechanism towards trauma.


And can I just scream into the void whenever someone says that Halsin is good representation of polygamy by being the most mainstream misconception on what that actually entails?

Halsin is not polygamous - he is sex without strings attached, and there is a difference that needs to be recognized.

Yeah, I saw that and got unreasonable pissed about it. I mean, the problem isn't the poly, it's the way it's been handled. Even the above mentioned post talks about openness and honesty and consent as the most important things, completely ignoring the fact that almost all of the critique is about the LACK of those things. Therefore he's the worst representation for poly, because he lures you in with very monogamy-aligned romantic lines, only to hand you the "no strings" line AFTER you've told him you feel the same way about him. Then he denies any option to openly talk about feelings and trust and consent and then he continues to be romantic in a very monogamy-aligned way, only to encourage you to sleep with others, and then finally leave you without any option to express your feelings.

For me it is having poly as the only option that is the issue with the romance. I think they should have options for either poly or mono so that people can pick what they want!

I still love the rest of the game, though, even if the romances don’t work for me!

Okay, let me ask you this: if Halsin wasn't poly, but he still acted the same and had the same ending, would you still be alright with that? Him leaving at the end, because he doesn't want to commit?

Because the polygamy and the commitment issue are two widely different things.

Exactly! Like my character would respect that it was his choice and could accept it, but him not being willing to commit or build a future with her, or include her as a part of his future was the deal breaker.

I haven’t gotten to the end yet and ended up reloading so my character currently doesn’t have any romances. That ending sounds pretty bad, though!

I think Larian knows exactly what's up. Because, as I've said before, by the evidence multiple of Halsin's routes became merged into one.

Putting my tinfoil hat on here... but I think this is the "worst ending" Halsin! This is what happens to him if you make him worse! Imagine there was only dread vampire Lord Astarion... It's like that...

If so, hopefully they add the other paths back in!!!

Probably the focus on poly in this thread at least is because the title of this thread is "obligatory poly." Obligatory mono is the norm, and a very common type of romance in video games. Other companions cater to players seeking monogamy for their characters. So the "focus on the poly," in terms of why I'm commenting at least, is because it's being called that in the title.

To address you personally Cowoline, with the intention of clearing up a misconception, there are actually forms of polyamory that are practiced by poly people that are foremost about forming bonds with other people for no-strings attached sex. That is not a stain on the name of polyamory; it does not further negative stereotypes about what polyamory is when people live that way. Polygamy on the other hand, which is about having multiple spouses, would be an arrangement where people bring in expectations for something that's not sex so I'm not sure if that's a typo but you're right that's absolutely not what Halsin says he likes.

But polyamory, which is used as an umbrella term in the society I'm from for a vast number of types of bonds people form while remaining nonmonogamous, includes many community members who practice free love and are free agents and are primarily poly not to form structured, entwined bonds, but to have sex. They like what they like, and that's okay. They're not creating misconceptions about poly in the world; they're rad, sweet, generous, interesting, kind, thoughtful people who care about the bonds they form, however short-term and focused on sex those bonds may be! Poly people, and people who practice poly, who do nonmonogamy in a way that foregrounds having sex with nontraditional commitments/no commitments are part of our poly community too if they want to be. They are not a shame on the public perception of poly: they are navigating a non-traditional lifestyle in a mononormative culture.

I like that in this romance, we can, in a certain playthrough (spoilers for Halsin ending)

I think that one thing that creates friction here is that in most of the other aspects characters are written to be extremely fluid: They're practically all pan, since they don't care about Tav's gender. So if you consider that, it might feel constricting that they have an orientation about relationship structure. Some of them can only accept monogamous relationship (at least one of them actually shouts at Tav's face if you even ask them to open up the relationship, calls Tav's relationship disgusting and dumps them), some are more or less happy to have an open relationship if it comes up, and then there is Halsin, who is the only poly. So on one hand, they have made a design decision that any character can have a relationship with any Tav, and on the other hand decided that actually not everyone can have a relationship with any Tav. If they would have decided that all of the characters could be in any kind of arrangement, those two design decisions would have probably been easier to process. I'm not saying that these were wrong decisions, only that it makes comprehending the social norms here a bit more complex. Eg. Are characters supposed to please the player and to what extend? Are they supposed to challenge the player and how?

So while Halsin is the character we see the impact of those decisions the most, he is not the only one with an orientation. Others just aligns easier with people who want to play Tav as monogamous.

With this said I don't believe that they'd re-write this decision anymore and that Halsin stays poly. Why? Because the game is published and not anymore in EA phase. It's normal that during the EA game makers try out different things, see what people like and change things. Once you publish it becomes harder to delete anything that you already have, because so many players have already seen the product. I mean, so far millions of players have already played this game. Millions. While I'm sure people at Larion cares for their fanbase and loves that we're discussing here, we're still just a small minority. Most of the players are not part of the discussion. Most of them have no idea that Halsin was made romancable only after the fans' feedback and that now those same fans feel like they didn't get what they asked for. If they now delete something as major as companion's orientation, that would probably look really weird to most of the players. Plus, it would probably look bad. It would look like a game studio gave presentation to an underpresented minority and then took it away. Of course reality behind this is so much more complex, but I bet you can all imagine how horribly bad it could look like for them, especially if someone said that it's because monogamous players didn't like it.

That's why I'd love to hear what they could add, that would make the character better.

I'd want to see more and diverse dialogue between Halsin and Tav. Because I think that you're all right pointing out that a lot of the current lines aren't actually a full conversation. Atm he tells how he sees the world of relationships, but it's not a conversation. I'd want to see them talking back and forth, building the shared understanding of the situation and asking questions from one another. It's a difficult subject that a lot of the players haven't seen in their own lives, and there'd be so much to talk about! They decided to have a poly character, and I think they should make the effort to communicate this aspect better. Besides, Halsin would be a better presentation if he had these conversations, because people in all non-conventional relationships actually have to discuss a lot. They don't get the luxury of being understood without it.

I'm going through my second playthough now and paying now more attention to what Halsin actually says. During my first playthrough I didn't notice anything gringy (though I did laugh when he keeps talking about nature so excessively instead of explaining his personal thinking). But then again I already am familiar with those concepts and probably read the lines from a different point of view. Eg. When he says that he doesn't want to limit Tav and that Tav is free to find love with others too, I honestly believe that it doesn't mean that Tav would need to be with anyone else or even that he is encouraged to do so. I mean, why would he mean that. People don't normally want their beloved to do anything against their will. I understood that so that he simply is alright and would consider it normal if Tav have other romantic interests in life. And when he tells Tav that Tav is in his heart and that he only loves him now, I do believe that. Being poly doesn't come with any other concepts, so being poly doesn't mean that they are less loving, less committed, more into sex or anything like that. If anything, people I know from real life are some of the most committed partners I know and have been together most of their lives. So when Halsin says that he doesn't want to be only with Tav AND that Tav is the only one he has at the time, those two things can be true at the same time. So I think that the healthy, caring and loving relationship is there, and was their intention, but it's just poorly communicated and leaves room for serious differences in interpretation. If Halsin had more dialogue and a fuller personal storyline, and if they'd pay more attention on how the dialogue could be interpret, we could have a pretty wholesome character.

Oh, and I definitelly think that the trauma was another thing that was part of his story, but so breefly mentioned, that it felt startling without any follow-up. I believe this subject should have been handled with so much more care and depth. It could have been really well-written and important aspect, like it is with Astarion. If they didn't plan to continue with the subject, I don't think it should have even been mentioned. It's too heavy to just be a casual side note. I'm sorry for survivors who had to suddenly encounter that and then be left alone with it.

Swinging is often a part of the polygamous community, yes. But swinging and no strings attached again means that it is not a relationship. This is nothing against casual sex, but that is VERY different from what is implied with Halsin.

I am not arguing against this type of thing being represented, it should be. Halsin was the wrong character to do it with, entirely. His entire personality and arch is such a jumbled mess, that it begins to look like a creepy middle aged man with a midlife crisis.

The poly community is usually really respectful of feeling and agency. Halsin doesn't show any of that, which is the issue. That is why he is a poor representation of the community.

Example:

You call him a relationship anarchist - Halsin dialogue if you "break up with him": I will stay with you as an ally, advisor and friend, all of this - save for as a lover"
Right there he puts into words what they are, while he would not earlier.

He doesn't want commitment? Halsin's actions: Searches for a family, a place of belonging, he gravitates towards purpose and long term commitments in general - except for the one thing that he truly expresses he needs: a partner
This is further supported by "I can't imagine my life without you".

All power to wanting this type of romance. Laezel is up that alley and it really works. Halsin is a disjointed and messed up choice for it, and he should never have been given this typ of romance, because the poor writing.

I am pleased you love him (I do too) and that you got exactly the type of romance you wanted.

But as an author, story teller, marketing and commercial specialist and analysist: This was a wrong choice for Halsin, and as this thread is evidence of completely missed the target audience they were trying to cater to.

The ending is sweet, but lackluster and when you see the romance in its entirety it is extremely manipulative. Meaning it makes Halsin either extremely cruel and selfish, or extremely ignorant and unaware of the emotional impact he has on others.

I do believe that all of us agree that cruel, selfish, ignorant, and emotionally unintelligent are not words we would have ever believed would be actually relevant for Halsin's character.

By the looks of it, you are lucky and will keep your romance as is. I can appreciate the minority getting a win

One small thing: Larian did try this before with The Red Prince, who did the exact same thing in DOS2. They did the exact same thing as in DOS2 where half of the LI left the main character. The very very nearly killed off half the party like they did in DOS2. And all of this was HATED and complained over again and again.

And I did The Red Prince romance, and you know what? It has NOTHING on Halsin. That romance The Red Prince is up front, but it is hated for a reason.

For all Larian listens, they also repeat the same mistakes over and over.

And if I remember correctly this was all done by the same author who wrote Halsin.

So, they had all the data they needed to know this, and the dark version of this is: They added Halsin as a romance based on player feedback, but then based him on one of the most hated romances in their previous games on purpose.

I suppose being left behind is better than hearing, "Oh, you - you can be my sidepiece, m'kay?" Interestingly, BioWare kinda-sorta had an ending with DAO's Alistair along those lines, though it was clear only the PC had his heart.

More ending spoilers for Halsin:

No, he is eager for his booty call to visit and give him some. And no amount of sugar coating can make it acceptable for the players who for three years wanted a romance and not a fling with the equivalent of a middle aged midlife crisis stalking Grinder.
Sorry, I know that's harsh, but that is how the context of all of him reads.

But I am glad that you feel lucky, because you are one of the only ones, so it's good it at least brought joy to one person, when it has ruined the game for so many.

But note to self: Next time a character is advertised as "bear sex" stay away, because people who are demi-sexual are not very appreciated in the context of video games.

I killed off my character, who romanced Halsin. Best decision ever. He didn't even care that she died. (I suppose this would be a bad time to say she was the single mother of two?)