Originally Posted by Gray Ghost
I think that on a conceptual level hey work far better than Daisy did. Daisy was just red flags from minute one. They pushed too hard and were just so obviously sinister that you knew you couldn't trust them. They were encouraging you to give into the tadpole just as much as the guardian, even if the whole tadpole power up mechanic of consuming more is pretty dumb. But Daisy encouraged you to saying that you were becoming something greater, making it really hard for you or your character to not think she meant full transformation. Meanwhile Meanwhile guardian explicitly says they're protecting you from changing. They're supporting your efforts to defeat the absolute and want to stop it as well. Immediately more trustworthy, but still with some red flags. Just not ALL the red flags like Daisy. I think it would be far easier to make the guardian work and feel better than it would have been to make Daisy work and feel better, as evidenced by the fact they turned Daisy into the guardian to try try fix them.

Why is that a bad thing?
I just don't see distrusting Daisy as a flaw in the original plot. If if the goal of plot 1.0 was to force good players to do things the hard way and evil parties to do things the easy way then it worked. You knew that using the tadpole had consequences - you could stride into the goblin camp on "authority" and even get a few powers along the way. And if you stopped before you became a true soul all was well. You would find out the disadvantages when you met Nere and the game became "how much do I use before losing myself" Which was the same mechanism as the Slayer in BG2 - insta win any fight / open doors that only gods can open but lose that reputation and eventually face the game over screen.

You're right that we can only imagine what Daisy would be like but lack of trust doesn't seem like a fatal flaw.

Because I played EA I can't truly imagine what a new player would experience but I find it hard to believe that people are any less suspicious of the Guardian - it's only that your suspicions aren't are rewarded. I'm searching for a cure but this strange voice in my head tells me to "consume" even more tadpoles? Every time I get near a possible cure - like the Gith Creche - it tells me to go away? Uh, kinda sounds like you don't want me to be cured my dear "Guardian"

And the game assumes we trust the Guardian long after it's clear we have no reason to do so.

(paraphrasing from memory)

Guardian: If you want to take my life do so now. **Kneels and puts sword over heart**

(Tav thinks: this a projection from the tadpole, a elder brain or mind flayer - stabbing won't do anything)

*tav stabs*

Guardian is annoyed but quite alive

(Tav thinks - I was hoping your true form would reveal itself but I'm happy to have my suspicions confirmed)

Returns to material plane

Emperor: "I'm glad you've come to your senses"

(tav thinks" $@#% just you wait)
. . .

Suspicions confirmed: Finally gets to kill emperor, game over screen
. . .
reloads
. . .

Tav: "Oh hi soulless lovecraftian monster, can we be frens?"

I think the Emperor reveal was supposed to be shock but I saw it as confirmation - of course a mind flayer wanted to be come a mind flayer . . .


We did meet "Daisy" in the act 3 during the park Bhaalist attack and, truth be told, I wanted to hear what she had to say. What kind alliance was she proposing?

TL;DR I didn't find the Guardian to be any more trustworthy than Daisy but I was dismayed that the game did not support my attitude of distrust. Which, to be fair, was also a flaw of Throne of Bhaal . . .