Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion Halsin Romance, Expectations and Obligatory Poly

I think that one thing that creates friction here is that in most of the other aspects characters are written to be extremely fluid: They're practically all pan, since they don't care about Tav's gender. So if you consider that, it might feel constricting that they have an orientation about relationship structure. Some of them can only accept monogamous relationship (at least one of them actually shouts at Tav's face if you even ask them to open up the relationship, calls Tav's relationship disgusting and dumps them), some are more or less happy to have an open relationship if it comes up, and then there is Halsin, who is the only poly. So on one hand, they have made a design decision that any character can have a relationship with any Tav, and on the other hand decided that actually not everyone can have a relationship with any Tav. If they would have decided that all of the characters could be in any kind of arrangement, those two design decisions would have probably been easier to process. I'm not saying that these were wrong decisions, only that it makes comprehending the social norms here a bit more complex. Eg. Are characters supposed to please the player and to what extend? Are they supposed to challenge the player and how?

So while Halsin is the character we see the impact of those decisions the most, he is not the only one with an orientation. Others just aligns easier with people who want to play Tav as monogamous.

With this said I don't believe that they'd re-write this decision anymore and that Halsin stays poly. Why? Because the game is published and not anymore in EA phase. It's normal that during the EA game makers try out different things, see what people like and change things. Once you publish it becomes harder to delete anything that you already have, because so many players have already seen the product. I mean, so far millions of players have already played this game. Millions. While I'm sure people at Larion cares for their fanbase and loves that we're discussing here, we're still just a small minority. Most of the players are not part of the discussion. Most of them have no idea that Halsin was made romancable only after the fans' feedback and that now those same fans feel like they didn't get what they asked for. If they now delete something as major as companion's orientation, that would probably look really weird to most of the players. Plus, it would probably look bad. It would look like a game studio gave presentation to an underpresented minority and then took it away. Of course reality behind this is so much more complex, but I bet you can all imagine how horribly bad it could look like for them, especially if someone said that it's because monogamous players didn't like it.

That's why I'd love to hear what they could add, that would make the character better.

I'd want to see more and diverse dialogue between Halsin and Tav. Because I think that you're all right pointing out that a lot of the current lines aren't actually a full conversation. Atm he tells how he sees the world of relationships, but it's not a conversation. I'd want to see them talking back and forth, building the shared understanding of the situation and asking questions from one another. It's a difficult subject that a lot of the players haven't seen in their own lives, and there'd be so much to talk about! They decided to have a poly character, and I think they should make the effort to communicate this aspect better. Besides, Halsin would be a better presentation if he had these conversations, because people in all non-conventional relationships actually have to discuss a lot. They don't get the luxury of being understood without it.

I'm going through my second playthough now and paying now more attention to what Halsin actually says. During my first playthrough I didn't notice anything gringy (though I did laugh when he keeps talking about nature so excessively instead of explaining his personal thinking). But then again I already am familiar with those concepts and probably read the lines from a different point of view. Eg. When he says that he doesn't want to limit Tav and that Tav is free to find love with others too, I honestly believe that it doesn't mean that Tav would need to be with anyone else or even that he is encouraged to do so. I mean, why would he mean that. People don't normally want their beloved to do anything against their will. I understood that so that he simply is alright and would consider it normal if Tav have other romantic interests in life. And when he tells Tav that Tav is in his heart and that he only loves him now, I do believe that. Being poly doesn't come with any other concepts, so being poly doesn't mean that they are less loving, less committed, more into sex or anything like that. If anything, people I know from real life are some of the most committed partners I know and have been together most of their lives. So when Halsin says that he doesn't want to be only with Tav AND that Tav is the only one he has at the time, those two things can be true at the same time. So I think that the healthy, caring and loving relationship is there, and was their intention, but it's just poorly communicated and leaves room for serious differences in interpretation. If Halsin had more dialogue and a fuller personal storyline, and if they'd pay more attention on how the dialogue could be interpret, we could have a pretty wholesome character.

Oh, and I definitelly think that the trauma was another thing that was part of his story, but so breefly mentioned, that it felt startling without any follow-up. I believe this subject should have been handled with so much more care and depth. It could have been really well-written and important aspect, like it is with Astarion. If they didn't plan to continue with the subject, I don't think it should have even been mentioned. It's too heavy to just be a casual side note. I'm sorry for survivors who had to suddenly encounter that and then be left alone with it.

I unfortunately had my heart very much set on this romance.

My tiefling ranger is a widow who killed her abusive husband and is raising her two children on her own. Halsin was the first person she let into her heart again, and was slowly building to a place of trust and acceptance.

Needless to say Halsin has all of the potential, but none of the execution to be a viable option. I am still absolutely baffled over what the fuck they were thinking.

This is "a discussion of whether, intentionally or not, Halsin constitutes a good representation of [poly], if his romance content fits his previous characterisation and behaviours and reads as a healthy and positive relationship between equals," so I'm contributing to the discussion here where that is the topic.

I am still absolutely baffled over what the fuck they were thinking.

And it seems very good to me that that is your idea of that type of relationship but it is not the case for the majority of the community who wanted other things (nor the majority of people outside the community if you ask me).

Even the polyamorous people that I have met look for commitment in their partner and do not see well the pica flower without putting your heart in anyone.

One small thing: Larian did try this before with The Red Prince, who did the exact same thing in DOS2. They did the exact same thing as in DOS2 where half of the LI left the main character. The very very nearly killed off half the party like they did in DOS2. And all of this was HATED and complained over again and again.

And I did The Red Prince romance, and you know what? It has NOTHING on Halsin. That romance The Red Prince is up front, but it is hated for a reason.

For all Larian listens, they also repeat the same mistakes over and over.

And if I remember correctly this was all done by the same author who wrote Halsin.

So, they had all the data they needed to know this, and the dark version of this is: They added Halsin as a romance based on player feedback, but then based him on one of the most hated romances in their previous games on purpose.

Except it doesn't. And professionals in this area has concluded that it doesn't. People who work with trauma and much more have begged Larian to make changes, because it is an unhealthy depiction.

Wait, what?! Oh, no. It all makes sense now

Sorry, I don't understand what this sentence means. That you like how I interpret Halsin, but don't see it that way yourself?

Yeah, so do all that I know. I believe we are talking about different types of commitment when we discuss Halsin, however. I believe they tried to write him to genuinely express emotional commitment, love, admiration and a wish to stay in each other's lives. I don't think that they wanted to give an expression that he'd be a non-committing fling (but obviously fail in that, because otherwise there wouldn't be these discussions).

Wait, what?! Oh, no. It all makes sense now

And why would Larian do something like that? So we can complain endlessly? What strange fetish is this Larian? Do we have to worry?

And why would Larian do something like that? So we can complain endlessly? What strange fetish is this Larian? Do we have to worry?