Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion [END SPOILS WARNING] Addressing Karlach (PLEASE PUT SPOILERS IN TAGS)

At risk of slightly derailing the thread, holy crap this apparently not cut content just obscure Karlach scene that Chubblot datamined:


I really should get to it. I wanted to datamine the (potentially hearsay but maybe not) data from the thread that Karlach's upper city scenes were fully voiced or whatever, but haven't gotten around to it. I just want to know if its real or not definitively, doesn't matter to me who finds it. I know my way around programming as it's my job, but I am no game developer, so my skillset is somewhat mismatched. Hopefully someone, myself or otherwise, can see whether or not it's true.

Edit: PM'd him about it. I have a general idea of what I want to do but I know he's far deeper in it than I am so I'll take any guidance I can get, and if he's working on something similar I don't want to step on his shoes.

Well, that's quite trippy to say the least. But gahd dammit, Samantha really nails the performance.

This fiery teddy bear weirdo needs to be protected at all costs

'the hope that kills' thing really does bother me if thats how they decided to settle on the endings she got. like a good tragedy is still a GOOD tragedy, but lets ignore the idea it probably wasn't implemented as intended, I dont know about you guys but if im wanting to experience a tragic tale, i would most likely play a strictly railroaded narrative where you truly are a passenger in the story witnessing it unfold. kind of like *the last of us* ? im sure there are better examples but you get the idea.

My issue with this argument here is, like many have pointed out is
1) every other character has a way to get out of some truly shitty situations (yes astarians could be better and I hope her gets some love too )
but more importantly to consider 2) despite this being larians game the sheer amount of detail they put in to so many different choices and affects that the player can do and how the game reacts TO YOU is bonkers from different origin character playthroughs to the different romances of those origins to how you tackle their own quests literally changes how they see themselves and the world around them, they literally develop and grow as the game continues based on YOUR effort into their stories. 17k different endings remember? i doubt thats an accurate number but i bet all of us have different playthroughs and few very of us could say we did the same thing all the way through.

my point being is this may be larians game but they made massive effort to make this OUR story not a railroaded journey that we are on but a a true dnd style adventure that we the player supposedly had almost* full reign to murder hobo or white knight it or anywhere in-between in a playthrough. and as far as im concerned I dont think you can do all that and then say for this 1 origin character though....its the hope that kills ya *shrug* nothing you can do. THATS why its so bloody frustrating to me. every other aspect seems like a choice of the players effort to steer the narrative to the story THEY want to experience...except karlach..you put effort into karlach and sorry but thems the brakes. its so insanely jarring in contrast to the rest of the game and the characters. thats why im in this thread to keep it going and to hope that larian sees this and decides to do something with it, I want to keep playing bg3 but with Karlachs endings the way they are it just saps my desire to play, knowing there's literally no way to fix the engine, have her stay without bloody tentacles or any type of good closure that the other characters get.
im all for a good tragedy but in a game about player choices and 17k endings? that tragedy should be MY choice to inflict, not forced on me.

Speaking of Samantha and teddy bear, my favorite out-of-game quote from her but still voicing Karlach was "I hate it here. I want to go to build-a-bear!" I cackled lol.

As for the Upper City fixed dialogue being "in the files" like someone claimed... it's looking kinda grim. A quick script and text mine of the dialogs shows there isn't any Karlach lines to support that, though I can certainly increase my search key words if anyone has any ideas.

Code and if you want to look at the lines yourself: https://gist.github.com/Invuska/b25423a5e1a5fb0a7fe3bc45d35f64c1

I still have to do my other ideas (namely transcribing audio then training a model to find unmapped/un-meta'd Karlach lines) but doesn't seem like anything is in text dialogs right now. Unless someone can give me some keywords they know are associated with the supposed Upper City fix dialog.

P.S. Yes, I could find the dialog and dialog source file for the video posted by Chubblot above using practically the same script: https://gist.github.com/Invuska/a8901dbf2dd85438aee73f5864f26345

Hey, where you running the file from? I could start a parse as well.

PM'd you the details. Didn't want to detract too much from this thread.

Her story will never be a good tragedy, no matter what Larian does (unless they rewrite her entire character). She did nothing to bring any of this upon herself, compared to other companions her condition is literally a side quest you should be able to complete and don't think much about and making something "impossible" or "unfixable" is just laughable in DnD setting

Go on make it yourself, we just show how much we care

As for now the only hope that killed me was hope to actually play finished and polished game when it releases. Where is that hope they are talking about? Are we supposed to hope the game lets us try something or what? I can't be the only one tobsee through that bullshit

Well? Stop complaining here and make your own thread. Karlach is way more popular than Astarion.

And unlike her he can get somewhat satisfying ending

The fact there wasn't a good Karlach ending tied to the Upper City found in the files isn't necessarily grim. Maybe one was intended but it didn't make it into the game's files before the Upper City was cut. Maybe one was still in production and the last minute rewrite forced them to shelve it for the time being. Maybe they simply ran out of time before release so they just released what they had knowing they would have unlimited time and money to fix it after the game was released. Maybe one wasn't intended until everyone hated the endings we got. There's lots of explanations that aren't "the devs hate Karlach".

Most likely, I doubt anyone would be stupid enough to pull something like this, like how can they talk about hopeless situation when we aren't even allowed to try anything. Either there has been cuts or larian writers are no better than wattpad edgelords

I'm pretty sure, that lack of time before the release is the main reason why we're all here. You can feel it everywhere in act3. Missing possibility to fix her is definitely somehow connected to upper city, where her quest should be finished. Also for example her cutscene with her smithy friend in lower city (I cannot remember the name). This cutscene is very nice and quite long, inviting tav and Karlach for dinner and then nothing. Don't tell me they put an effort and money into this just to lead to nowhere. And we speak only about missing Karlachs's content here...

Watch me make an account to connect with like-minded people about the fiery love of our lives.

I feel like I've been musing a post for days and yet nothing feels quite adequate as to convey the feeling of distaste the ending/s bring. I know that a lot of people, myself included, felt very connected and represented in Karlach as to topics of chronic disability/pain, escaping an abusive situation, trying to live their lives to the fullest with whatever time was given them. So many of us go through or know someone close who goes through an illness or lives with a disability that is causing their lifespan to be shorter, or the time here on Earth to not be as full as it would've been had this condition never touched their bodies. I felt immense connection to Karlach in the way that she didn't let her fire, love and spark to diminish, despite a decade in LITERAL hell, sold to Zariel who is the epitome of an abusive boss/relationship. I rooted for our girl to get out and STAY OUT and would do anything in my (Tav's) power to keep her happy and healthy - especially because as many of you already have said, she did nothing to cause this to herself. She got thrown there and she lost her actual HEART in the process of serving Zariel. And what did she get for surviving, for getting out of that abuse? Death.

We live in a world where everything is a tragedy in one form or another. Representation matters, it truly does, but it doesn't sit right with me to see every other character get a solution for their problems and Karlach, the absolute sweetheart of the group, is doomed. Just purely doomed. No matter how much you and Dammon try, no matter how many items of interest you find, no matter where you fucking go and what you fucking do - it's back to the abusive realm of Hell, and her "boss", or to straight up die. You go through her quest and realise that even if she said she'd rather do anything other than return to Avernus, Karlach DOESN'T WANT TO DIE. The way Samantha voiced those lines later in Act 3 broke me. Because it was as real as hearing the doctors say, there's nothing more we can do. And that is real - but I'm so fucking tired of it infiltrating my media. The media that is supposed to help me get away, forget reality, forget the trauma and tragedy of our collective lives and let me hope. Because hope is the most human emotion and we will cling to it until our last breath. I would cling to it together with my Tav, doing anything and giving her any form of hope that yes, we would fix it. But the game just doesn't let you do that. The writing doesn't let you have that good ending, where a MACHINE forced into Karlach's body, cannot be fixed no matter what.

Baldur's Gate is a story driven by the player. It's giving us a multitude of choices that ends the game in an equal multitude of ways. Yet Karlach is taken fully out of our control. No matter how much we try, it will always be a fail. You can either take away her dignity and return to Avernus in hopes of surviving and maybe finding a way to fix it (again, holding onto hope), or letting her die, literally burn to her death in the most crippling agony ever. She deserves none of this, has done nothing to deserve a fate as shit as this. I'm so sick and tired of constant reminders that my loved ones are doomed to die. I'm wary of letting my gf play the game knowing she already adores Karlach by proxy through me, but knowing how deeply shattered she is by the sudden loss of her own dear mom to cancer. I'm tired of having to see tragedy and pain depicted in a game of multiple choices, because there's so many linear games, books and movies where that is represented in plenty and the writers' accord. In this story, our story, the group of characters we meet and party with get to experience changes that will give them all kinds of ending options. If I want tragedy, let me have that choice - but don't force it upon me because I personally want a good, no less complicated but overall GOOD ending. Where a person who did everything they could actually gets to win for once.

I'm tired of losing in life, and doing just as much in a game where I try to see my choices matter, for them to not matter at all. I'm tired of losing people I love or having them live a life in chronic pain because "that's just how it is" and "it's the hope that kills". I won't accept any other addition to Karlach's ending other than being able to repair that engine and for my Tav and the group to see her break into tears of joy and disbelief, knowing that the curse of her life has been lifted, and that she can enjoy whatever good things life in Faerûn can offer.

I'm just...I'm really tired when games of choice (Mass Effect, Life is Strange, Baldur's Gate) end on a reminder that life is fleeting, pain is inevitable and hoping is in vain. If I want to do everything in my power to give everyone a good ending, I will do that. I want to escape reality and feel accomplished for the characters I love as deeply as some people in real life, I want to give Karlach the gift of curing her pain and giving her a life away from her abusers. Why is that so fucking much to ask for.

TL;DR: I agree with everyone in this thread and will do my darndest to wait and hope that a fixed engine ending can happen. Because I can't live with the fact that everyone else can get something good (complicated =/= inherently bad, mind you) at the end, but not the character that genuinely deserves it the most. JUSTICE FOR KARLACH!

You go with a lot of "maybes" I go with a facts. And the facts are that larian just expanded avernus ending, claimed it was what Karlach deserves and added maaany voice lines in patch 2 that made the situation much more grim than it was. I'm happy to be proven wrong and choke on my words, but that has to happen first and it doesn't look like it's likely

Thank you very much for sharing and welcome on in!

You are correct with your facts, but again, the fact that they expanded the Avernus ending doesn't automatically mean there will be no good ending in the future. Like some people here said, that's why this thread exists - to make sure Larian hears our displeasure with what we have. And although I understand that "hoping for the best while expecting the worst" tactic is a good tactic, this way it won't hurt as much if the endings remain the same, I still can't see any reasons for Larian NOT to add a good ending. "They got their money and they don't care anymore" is just another big MAYBE. After the success of BG3 they'd want to carry that success onto their next games (Divinity 3 maybe?). I think they completely understand that what happens now is very important for the business in the future, ESPECIALLY because BG3 is a major success.

The simple answer: they go for Broken Steel route like bethesda did in Fallout 3 because this garbage ending provides continuity for possible avernus dlc. Or maybe some writer got their ego hurt and can't stand that players don't like Karlach being the only character without happy ending, I've seen authors, writers and companies doing much dumber. Also, "hoping for the best while expecting the worst" is not a tactic. That's the coping mechanism, we'll either get what we want or make sure Larian's reputation about listening to players is a tale from the days gone

Thank you for your heartfelt post, I personally and undoubtedly most of our Justice for Karlach community feel the same as you (especially me, since I also had a loved one die from cancer as a child and we could not do anything about it do). I, too, was EXTREMELY unpleasant to see that it was Karlach in this game (which seems to position itself as an RPG with a large number of endings and non-linearity, where our choice is important) is doomed and does not have a single good ending. Let's hope that Larian really deprived her of the opportunity to get a good ending because they were in a hurry with the release and were afraid of rivalry with Starfield (as history has shown, it was in vain). And they will pay attention to this thread or to the numerous feedback on Discord and give Karlach at least ONE good ending.