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Sorry I think my brain is just dying and I'm failing to both interpret and convey my words very well, lol.
If you're referring to FourthWall audio files, then I am assuming those audio files had always existed since launch day, just that I don't know for sure since I haven't looked at the audio. I just didn't know if in your reply you had found a difference in audio files from launch day to Patch 2 regarding the FourthWall scene as I haven't digged through it myself (there's like 180,000+ .wem files that I'd rather programmatically process rather than listen to them manually, lol). Again, FourthWall audio could have definitely existed since launch day, just that I don't know for sure.
If your original reply to me (and this one) was actually about the "hopelessness" dialog like what Feris is talking about, sorry, I just completely misinterpret you. See above post.
If I'm still misinterpreting you... send some of your wishes to my poor brain as apparently it's ceasing to function (but send most of them to Larian and Karlach engine fix). From what I understand, you found the fourth wall scene voice lines in the 1.0 files. But when I looked around in the Patch 1.2 pak file today, I found those voice lines there as well. So now I'm under the impression that they're present in both the launch game and Patch 2 for some inexplicable reason. It just has me wondering why they would add those lines again in Patch 2, if they were already present at launch. Make sure to take a break! Mama K wouldn't want you to burn yourself out.
Last edited by Walking Kole; 17/09/23 06:36 PM.
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Sep 2023
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For those who missed it, Cressup's twitch interview with Samantha will be up on Cress' YT channel in the coming days. Samantha answered questions for about an hour, all spoiler-free but I'd give it a listen anyway if I were you.
What stuck with me was how Karlach was essentially an EA addition because of the feedback from fans, how the rest were pretty much edgelords the whole bunch. So her creation, the personality, the character we came to love, was written specifically with us players in mind. Now how the hells did this same character get their happy freedom fought and gained ending taken away from her? HUH? How is that even remotely alright. Man, I will pick the Avernus ending every single time until we get something else, but I don't support them being the only options. Even if badass, even if alive, I still know there's so much implemented in the game that could do for an engine fix on the upper plane. The character designed to be a force of good and joy and wishing to get some of that childlike innocence back because it was taken away from her, needs better than bringing her pal and love interest back to Avernus. 12 levels higher yes, but then gimme a dang DLC or something. ANYTHING LARIAN, I'LL TAKE ANYTHING AT ALL
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I have exactly 0 clue who cressup is, but is there any summary of the interview anywhere? Or is there any info when it will be available? Not that I hope to get anything from it, but it may be interesting depending the date interview took place
Last edited by Feris; 17/09/23 09:18 PM.
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journeyman
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You can find them on Twitter as Samantha linked to the page before the interview. She's a UK based twitch gamer and it was a community interview thing. Idk about when it will be available but might be a VOD on Cressup's twitch until then. Ending spoilers obviously dodged but they did touch upon Sam's feeling about that, the scene added in Act 3 and how Karlach came to be. Which I personally found pretty good tellers as for Karlach's development process that in the end also influences/d the ending process.
Last edited by NomTheBurritos; 17/09/23 09:33 PM.
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Now that I think of it, people were saying that Karlach's VA didn't like her previous character, wasn't fan of her ending and of the depressed lines. I can bet it's because of this interview
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Hopefully, she talked to Larian about it. They know how the fans feel but hearing it from the VA as well should push them even more to rectify the situtation.
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OP
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Joined: Aug 2023
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Many pages of support. Glad to see the flame still burning.
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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: Sep 2023
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Many pages of support. Glad to see the flame still burning. It will not fade away until we achieve Justice for Karlach.
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Banned
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Until we see justice done, we won't fade away
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We either get justice for Karlach or take away Larian's reputation about listening to player feedback
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Sep 2023
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The question remains. Why go out of their way, add new voice lines, cut scene and all that, instead of just adding one quest and two lines of dialogue at the end? Even if it would take longer than 2 weeks or whatever they needed for patch 2, just do that instead of the whole "ending she deserves" bullshit Giving her a proper ending will take months of work. Her quest essentially ends at the start of Act 2 right now (and by "end", I mean you're just told there is no fix and that's it, you're then given the opportunity to trade all those infernal irons you've collected for gear, lol). Expanding her quest beyond that would require tying it into existing Act 2 and 3 quest branches, which is complicated. They also need to record a ton of new voice lines (both for Karlach and the NPCs she interacts with in these new scenarios). The Patch 2 ending was just a stopgap until they have more time to actually finish her story (at least that's my hope). I'm guessing we'll be getting a definitive edition in ~12 months. And if not (although I highly doubt Larian won't act), I'm hoping modders can fix it. We know from the the Happily Emmie After mod in DOS2 that complex quest expansions are possible in this engine. I'm just not sure if it's possible to add audio lines. If it is, then it's possible to reach out to the VA to record a few lines for the mod (or even use ElevenLabs if she's okay with it).
Last edited by Chlamydia; 18/09/23 10:01 AM.
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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: Sep 2023
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The question remains. Why go out of their way, add new voice lines, cut scene and all that, instead of just adding one quest and two lines of dialogue at the end? Even if it would take longer than 2 weeks or whatever they needed for patch 2, just do that instead of the whole "ending she deserves" bullshit Giving her a proper ending will take months of work. Her quest essentially ends at the start of Act 2 right now (and by "end", I mean you're just told there is no fix and that's it, you're then given the opportunity to trade all those infernal irons you've collected for gear, lol). Expanding her quest beyond that would require tying it into existing Act 2 and 3 quest branches, which is complicated. I hope she gets a proper, finished story one day (I'm assuming there will be a definitive edition at some point withing the next ~12 months). I really want to do a Karlach origin playthrough, but there is no point right now. We could have waited if Larian had given us at least a hint that we COULD expect Karlach's quest line to be improved and corrected and given a good ending like ANY other character. Unfortunately, Larian apparently prefers to remain silent, Sven Vincke left the project, new dialogues turned the once cheerful and optimistic Karlach into a cancer patient in the fourth stage who no longer wants to live. Unfortunately, we have no confidence that Karlach will not remain as it is now even in the Definitive Edition.
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journeyman
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journeyman
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The question remains. Why go out of their way, add new voice lines, cut scene and all that, instead of just adding one quest and two lines of dialogue at the end? Even if it would take longer than 2 weeks or whatever they needed for patch 2, just do that instead of the whole "ending she deserves" bullshit Giving her a proper ending will take months of work. Her quest essentially ends at the start of Act 2 right now (and by "end", I mean you're just told there is no fix and that's it, you're then given the opportunity to trade all those infernal irons you've collected for gear, lol). Expanding her quest beyond that would require tying it into existing Act 2 and 3 quest branches, which is complicated. I hope she gets a proper, finished story one day (I'm assuming there will be a definitive edition at some point withing the next ~12 months). I really want to do a Karlach origin playthrough, but there is no point right now. We could have waited if Larian had given us at least a hint that we COULD expect Karlach's quest line to be improved and corrected and given a good ending like ANY other character. Unfortunately, Larian apparently prefers to remain silent, Sven Vincke left the project, new dialogues turned the once cheerful and optimistic Karlach into a cancer patient in the fourth stage who no longer wants to live. Unfortunately, we have no confidence that Karlach will not remain as it is now even in the Definitive Edition. You can't expect the devs to respond to every piece of feedback. They reworked huge parts of DOS2 without ever indicating they would. And if Larian doesn't ever finish Karlach's story (which I doubt will be the case), then modders should be able to do it.
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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: Aug 2023
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The flame never fades off until our hearts burn for our lovest Kar... Khm, I mean, this thread never die until we get some justice.
Justice for Karlach!
Justice for Karlach!
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Joined: Aug 2023
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I had to check once more videos on YT about removed content and it is just heartbreaking. how it affected Karlach. If the info is really true and she had good ending before, it is really sad. Positive thing is Larian released Enhanced/Definite editions for DOS1 and 2 and also for their previous games with fixes and updated content including major story and companions updates. I'm 100% sure, BG3 will also have DE in the future and with good ending for Karlach because she has I think the biggest support over the forums in overall.
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Banned
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Joined: Sep 2023
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They just needed to add one quest, hell, even half of the quest. Basically let us use enriched infernal iron, make it one trigger and call it a day. Argument about "tons of new voicelines" is bullshit, not only they don't need "tons" but three or maybe four, they literally DID JUST THAT in patch 2. They added not only cutscene, new dialogues and options, they literally added voicelines across act 2 and 3 that turned her into stage 4 cancer patient that knows they are going to die
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I'll just continue casually throwing in more thoughts on the topic as I'm moving along with the story, if it's okay with everyone, because I need to vent and this is, naturally, the most understanding place (plus this does count as feedback I'm pretty sure) Spoilers for House of Hope etc etc Geez, upon just reading everyone's thoughts and spoilers I was severely underestimating the, uh, 'not-good-ness' of the Avernus ending. It's, like, GLARINGLY obvious even before you reach the end.
Took Karlach with me to the House of Hope to steal the hammer and she basically had a small panic attack upon stepping foot in the Hells at all, immediately feeling trapped and cornered again. Just triple underline under the fact that it's her place of immense trauma, regardless of her options there. Dying DOES feel like an option preferable to ever getting stuck there again, she's not being unreasonable about that at all (not in her mind anyway). House of Hope, potential alliances, Zariel-maybe-not-being-SUCH-an-evil, not being alone anymore, it all doesn't really help when the whole landscape and the air itself are a giant trigger.
And I, as her lover, am about to convince her to go back there anyway and then call it a 'good' option? With the only alternative there being for her to die (or technically die by the virtue of becoming a mindflayer, which, no)?
Makes me feel like a selfish shit, man, and at this point it's EXTREMELY confusing which ending is supposed to be paraded as 'good' for her (at the current moment). Per the recent patch it seems to be Avernus, but uh. Uuuh.
Like. On the surface you can KINDA say that the final choice is sort of structurally the same as with the other companions. Meaning that there's one route which the character was following anyway and one route which you can try and convince them to switch to (become Justiciar/reject Shar, worship the Queen/betray the Queen, ascend/do not ascend, etc etc etc). Sometimes your character influences that switch naturally through their actions. So TECHNICALLY it's the same with Karlach - she stubbornly follows the death route, unless you convince her otherwise in the very end and your previous actions support that change (i.e. someone can go with her).
That's technically.
But narratively? While (on a good playthrough) I'm dragging every other friend AWAY from their source of trauma (whether they realize it or not) - sometimes through killing that source, sure, but we still LEAVE...
...with Karlach my 'good' option is to PUSH HER BACK into the place where she can hardly freaking breathe (at that point it doesn't even matter if Zariel can or can't get her hands on her again, Avernus itself is poison to her)??? With some vague hope for a future escape which isn't even promised and I have to headcanon that part myself?
Like yes Astarion's "good" ending is also bittersweet (and yes, lacks an epilogue), but at the very least we know that even though he can't walk in the sun anymore - he's still doing leagues better than he was before the game's events.
Karlach's 'good' ending is like. If we didn't kill Cazador at all AND Astarion lost his ability to walk in the sun AND for whatever reason he could never leave Baldur's Gate either. Or had to hide in the mansion's walls trying not to be found. Something like that. Or maybe if his quest ended the second we stepped into that mansion and the whole fight afterwards was left to our imagination.
But with a badass soundtrack for a cool barbarian exit.
Uuugh I dunno, on one hand the dilemma between "Letting her die in peace but she'll DIE" and "Convince her to live because you are unable to let go and drag her back into the worst possible place for her mentally" is, in fact, a real emotional conflict to have, but DAMN does it feel like an unfair punishment compared to EVERYONE else in the game (meaning the major characters of course, lest someone reminds me of tragic background NPCs again)...
And the severely-lacking-player-effort-questline is of course a giant insult to injury.
I am passively-aggressively stacking my giant pile of various infernal armor in the corner of my camp.
![[Linked Image from tarraxahum.neocities.org]](https://tarraxahum.neocities.org/buttons/2rdo1pL.png)
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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: Sep 2023
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I'll just continue casually throwing in more thoughts on the topic as I'm moving along with the story, if it's okay with everyone, because I need to vent and this is, naturally, the most understanding place (plus this does count as feedback I'm pretty sure) Spoilers for House of Hope etc etc Geez, upon just reading everyone's thoughts and spoilers I was severely underestimating the, uh, 'not-good-ness' of the Avernus ending. It's, like, GLARINGLY obvious even before you reach the end.
Took Karlach with me to the House of Hope to steal the hammer and she basically had a small panic attack upon stepping foot in the Hells at all, immediately feeling trapped and cornered again. Just triple underline under the fact that it's her place of immense trauma, regardless of her options there. Dying DOES feel like an option preferable to ever getting stuck there again, she's not being unreasonable about that at all (not in her mind anyway). House of Hope, potential alliances, Zariel-maybe-not-being-SUCH-an-evil, not being alone anymore, it all doesn't really help when the whole landscape and the air itself are a giant trigger.
And I, as her lover, am about to convince her to go back there anyway and then call it a 'good' option? With the only alternative there being for her to die (or technically die by the virtue of becoming a mindflayer, which, no)?
Makes me feel like a selfish shit, man, and at this point it's EXTREMELY confusing which ending is supposed to be paraded as 'good' for her (at the current moment). Per the recent patch it seems to be Avernus, but uh. Uuuh.
Like. On the surface you can KINDA say that the final choice is sort of structurally the same as with the other companions. Meaning that there's one route which the character was following anyway and one route which you can try and convince them to switch to (become Justiciar/reject Shar, worship the Queen/betray the Queen, ascend/do not ascend, etc etc etc). Sometimes your character influences that switch naturally through their actions. So TECHNICALLY it's the same with Karlach - she stubbornly follows the death route, unless you convince her otherwise in the very end and your previous actions support that change (i.e. someone can go with her).
That's technically.
But narratively? While (on a good playthrough) I'm dragging every other friend AWAY from their source of trauma (whether they realize it or not) - sometimes through killing that source, sure, but we still LEAVE...
...with Karlach my 'good' option is to PUSH HER BACK into the place where she can hardly freaking breathe (at that point it doesn't even matter if Zariel can or can't get her hands on her again, Avernus itself is poison to her)??? With some vague hope for a future escape which isn't even promised and I have to headcanon that part myself?
Like yes Astarion's "good" ending is also bittersweet (and yes, lacks an epilogue), but at the very least we know that even though he can't walk in the sun anymore - he's still doing leagues better than he was before the game's events.
Karlach's 'good' ending is like. If we didn't kill Cazador at all AND Astarion lost his ability to walk in the sun AND for whatever reason he could never leave Baldur's Gate either. Or had to hide in the mansion's walls trying not to be found. Something like that. Or maybe if his quest ended the second we stepped into that mansion and the whole fight afterwards was left to our imagination.
But with a badass soundtrack for a cool barbarian exit.
Uuugh I dunno, on one hand the dilemma between "Letting her die in peace but she'll DIE" and "Convince her to live because you are unable to let go and drag her back into the worst possible place for her mentally" is, in fact, a real emotional conflict to have, but DAMN does it feel like an unfair punishment compared to EVERYONE else in the game (meaning the major characters of course, lest someone reminds me of tragic background NPCs again)...
And the severely-lacking-player-effort-questline is of course a giant insult to injury.
I am passively-aggressively stacking my giant pile of various infernal armor in the corner of my camp. I just feel like I probably won’t get past Act 1. I don’t want to see Karlach suffer without even being able to help her... It's a terrible feeling, and I'm already on antidepressants.
Last edited by Sad_Pepe1992; 18/09/23 01:54 PM.
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Aug 2023
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Yeah I haven't played in weeks and refuse to go past Act 2 with these current endings. There's just no point.
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