Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Feedback compendium: Story Structure/Reactivity/Cutscenes

So I attempted to create this thread on the reddit but it was suggested to me that this is better suited here.

Please comment your feedback for Story Structure, Companion Reactivity and Cutscenes here! I'd like to create a straight forward megathread with all feedback so it's easier for devs, new players, and critical players to navigate. We have so many similar threads so why not compile a place to view them.

If you have already created a thread related to the three topics above please link the thread or copy your comment!

For myself the issues are

1.

Story Structure: Act 3 is narratively the weakest of the three. The interaction with the city could gave been expanded. Companion quests given higher stakes.

Ex: Cazador as a major player to conflict with Gortash. Now Astarions quest is put onto the stage of the greater narrative.

Also the way quests are laid out in Act 3. It's heavy on side quests and some even Companion quests seem shallow. What's the impact of my choices? Why do I have such limited narrative choices for outcomes? The details change but the issue with player agency and Story relevance comes up time and time again

Also concequences and outcomes related to choices are lacking. How are my choices reflected in the end game state? Why are my allies just cannon fodder for a large scale battle without any meaning to their deaths?

2.

Reactivity. Here's a thread of party banter that's in game but I have never experienced even though I should have. If you examine the comments on that video you'll see that alot of players are complaining that Reactivity is an issue in Act 2 and 3. I originally thought that this was intentional and that Reactivity was not a priority by the studio for these Acts. Evidently no, they are likely just severely bugged and this is therefore an overarching concern Larian needs to address in an upcoming patch.



Reactivity from Companions in dialogue during Act 2 and 3 in terms of relationship dialogue and story are also lacking. The same choices repeat or after companion quests complete they become silent besides the same dialogue prompts. There are changes in dialogue at very end game *if you click on companions randomly* during theses times but again very limited. Why does my companion feel flat during the most emotionally and narratively intense part of the game? It doesn't make sense and feels empty. Why are the relationships near the end of game less fulfilling even though they are finally established? Why are epilogues or endings not reflective of the companions journeys or gravitas of their choices (or mine?).

Also death reactions seem to have broken in last patch.

3.
Cutscenes.

The decisions on what cutscenes made it in on Act 3 are a concern. Firstly, no ending cutscenes or even panel cards. No cutscenes reflecting allies dead. Even a generic one noting the sacrifice of the fallen. No cutscene reflecting companions reacting to the death of Durge. No cutscenes between companions at camp, discussing the end of the world, or even a celebration for victory. Short cutscenes for evil playthroughs. Why limited relationship cutscenes and interactions in Act 3?- no dates, no end of the world talks, no in game final battle cut scenes specifically centered on a given love interest or platonic bond. I could go on and on.


Basically you see the narrative issues come full circle in what cutscenes are created.

So, what are your concerns with these three categories? Include your feedback below

Another writer has a full analysis of all companion cutscenes, length of dialogue and breakdown of content as well as feedback

https://reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/s/q3XpzHeowp

ok so Act 1 is superb, no issues whatsoever. I assume as it was the longest in early access it was polished to perfection. Companion dialogues seem quite well implemented in this act and everyone has plenty to say at all times.
Act 2 I personally had no problems, however I would suggest that there are some issues with quest progression in that its far far too easy to break something which has long lasting consequences due to the very linear nature of the questlines. I don't mind it but its in direct contrast with both Act 1 and Act 3 and nothing warns the player. It would maybe help if none of the quests which directly impact story progression actually fire up until after you have spoken to someone in Last Light, a certain female druid near the gate for example. Companions still quite chatty but noticeably less than in Act 1 with a lot of repetition. It's not bad in any way and I love the atmosphere but I feel it needs more polish.
Act 3. Still has a lot of bugs irrespective of patches so far. So from that point of view a bit unfinished - Although slightly annoying this sort of thing doesn't bother me too much as its resolvable by patches given time.
Companion quests have many illogical things happening. Not sure whether they are bugs or simply the trigers for certain things not firing. Choices which should be glaringly obvious aren't offered at all. Game seems to not have worked out that players will work round things they don't want to deal with immediately by finding ways to legitimately bypass them, a common trait for RPG players but in this game it seems to bork many quests from completing properly. I have no problems with the number of side quests but I personally would prefer less with those that remain to be more in depth with more consequence to the larger world
One particular aspect of the end game choices makes absolutely zero sense, a person who has spent years fighting for his personal freedom suddenly deciding to spit in its face for no good reason. And no choice is given for them to be talked out of it.
Apart from one liners thrown in at specific story beats by one or two companions there is much less interation with the player (not talking about their personal quests), and some of their chat lines seem to not take into account any actions made previously. For example at Sorcerous Sundries Lae'zel talks about fetching Gale, she'd have to go back to the grove and pull him out of that portal to do so as I left him in there and she's never met him.
Nothing seems tied up at the end, one or two lines from a couple of people and a couple of companions and its all over. I want to know what happens to my friends who wern't with me at the very end. I want to make sure Scratch is ok before I log off etc. Its a bewilderingly abrupt ending no matter what route you take to get there. I don't necessarily need every tiny detail tied up and presented with a ribbon and bow but the more important story beats, what affects my companions the most, and especially what affects our romanced partner (if we have one) should be given more than a two line epitaph, as it stands the companion who gets the most closure at end game is Lae'zel, the rest might as well not be there.
As even Jaheira says 'a story with no ending is no story at all'.

Thank you for contributing!

I definitely relate to everything you said!

A thread on reactivity I posted on reddit and partially here on another thread

https://reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/s/1MWpsOzyoH

So I posted this on the Larian forums and Im curious if anyone feels the same way about reactivity in general when it comes to the game.

Essentially we are talking about companion responses to your decisions, dialogue, choices etc.

Already this game has decent reactivity and in some cases amazing reactivity. However there are some choices both narratively and gameplay wise I've gotten down to question. My focus will be on the Astarion Romance route but there will be SPOILERS so you have been warned. I also mention some of the reactivity I have experimented with in Act 3 in general.

This is probably not a new topic but hey figured I would post here.

Reactivity as a whole in Act 1 is great. We have the need to establish characterization of companions and thus its also really needed in the gameplay. Its when we start getting into Act 2 that things start to wind down. I wonder if this is because so much of it is focused on Shadowheart and her story that the priority of the other companions sort of just centers on romance/ pieces to link to Act 3. Either way it starts to decline.


**Act 2:**
\- You will start seeing beyond the interactions with Raphael, the decline of reactivity. Its still great but it gets less and less throughout towards the end of Act 2.
\- I would really think that the Necromancy of Thay would be more impactful in general but in particular in Act 2 it could have been expanded - I was surprised we had to wait until Act 3 to unlock it further


**Act 3**
\- I have issues with the way the Cazador Quest was framed (I expected a large spy/ intrigue/ ball sort of plot and then perhaps the descent into the defiled temple at the end. Would have allowed alot more interaction, depth, and inside look at how the coven operates or how Cazador operates. Cazador was a bit of a letdown gameplay wise and just depth of this horrible villain we have seen enshadow Astarion's life.)
\- The resolutions presented - Ascended, Not Ascended - it does feel like full vampire should be an option but I understand why not - it would per DnD lore have the same emotional outcome as the ascended route
\- Romantically the forced turn or break up is still a bit frustrating but understandable lore wise
\-Necromancy of Thay turns into a MacGuffin. Though the spell is great, there is zero impact on Astarion's development, story, or outcome from unlocking this. Its basically a more complex Easter egg. I really wish we had I don't know either looked into True Resurrection or ask the \*famous Wizard that keeps visiting Gale\* to arrange for us to get a wish spell or \*Strong arm Raphael into a deal over killing him in his House of Hope\*.

These are just the plot convenient choices. If a cure is not intended for this story (and that's a totally legitimate artistic choice) - then please treat it with gravitas. Lets have a more detailed approach to this impact for the non ascended route (which ties into this ending points below)


\- I feel like the Durge playthrough with Ascended is probably the most powerful, as is the Durge resist with Astarion - it honestly feels more fleshed out and complete with more tender moments and care/reactivity. I strongly suggest fans to create a Durge character for this reason for this romance.


**Post Personal Quest towards Final Battle**
\- Reactivity came to a complete standstill for the Non Ascended Astarion. its actually a bit of a shame because his responses get limited and if you are a Durge and finish your quest well - thats it for reactivity.

\- You \*might\* get more party banter if you switch around companions and run around the city (which I did actually to see what would trigger) and then thats it.

\- The lack off reactivity and diversity of lines in non Ascended Astarion makes such a nuanced character very flat. Especially when we compare the more varied reactions coming from Ascended Astarion. Does Non Ascended just - stop being opinionated? Sassy? Honestly it feels like his personality just goes which is really frustrating considering how full circle it is for him to reject the cycle of abuse.
\- Its interesting that they chose to have you click on characters after major quests and plots to see if there is a reaction. That's pretty much all you can do is randomly click on them at camp or in group to see if they react. This is separate from the exclamation marks - You can manually trigger dialogue when it gets to later in game. But if you miss it, you miss it for good.
\- I really expected a more emotive reaction to my Durge resisting in the end- and also the lack of reaction/ animation or cutscene from my love interest \*When I die\* - again narratively and emotionally missed opportunity.


**Before and At the Final Battle**
\- Generally - there should have been a larger pre battle camp cutscene or reactivity from all your companions. One last night (again could have been a great opportunity to keep the relationship pieces going. I know Larian said they wanted to develop these relationships but that really came to an end in Act 3 very early).
\- The High Hall scene could have also had more reactivity as well - including having the \*Other companions who are not even in your group\*. Where's the rest of the people I recruited? having beers at the Elfsong as the world comes to an end? (Actually I could see that happening)
\- Astarion specific - There could have been some really powerful cutscenes with him (or any romantic interest) in the final battle that allowed more impact emotionally


**His Ending - Literally Running away from the Sunrise**

**- The complete gravitas of this story is ruined with this ending. There. I said it.**
\- The platonic dock ending is a horrible and tone deaf joke for all the reasons outlined. I have no idea what they were thinking considering that this is a very relatable story for trauma survivors. Even if you Romance him and get this scene, to not allow you to comfort him in the shadows, or at least have reactions from companions that arent heartless - I again have no idea why this was written this way.


\- The priority of who speaks at the dock scene desperately needs to be changed (or code created to weight who speaks based on flags) - it should go - Romance flag, party taken flag, then high approval flag, and then if the spaces for dialogue are left then whoever is left in the party
\-Obviously there needs to be better epilogues in general - and a post ending celebration for the endings that its relevant for. This has been said ad nauseum


**Astarion specific Ending - Romantic "Epilogue"**

\- Very limited emotional impact, the dialogue seems very stiff in a way? Not a slag on Neil at all, I think its the writing. No kiss, no passion, no last night with romantic interest. Again this can tie very nicely with the party I mentioned earlier.
\-The Durge ending where you decide to "end things yourself" - I have heard there's no reactivity to that because well either Ascended Astarion doesn't care (or there's no scene) or the Sunlight run off means he doesnt get to see that I suppose? Its awkward to say the least.


**\*Suggestion for an Actual Epilogue\***
\- Please reflect the actual player choices from the previous "epilogue" (which isnt one really, its just a separate ending if you look at it properly). This means either a 6 month reunion, ending cards, something. Would I love it to be cinematic? Sure! Can it be given the timeframe it takes for roll out? Probably not and thats fine.


As you can see I have some pretty strong opinions as a whole on this character and how things were handled. Overall Act 1 and Act 2 create a beautiful story and even the solid parts of Act 3 and the personal quest completion (that scene and voice acting at the end once you defeat Cazador! Brilliant). I think theres just some points that need to be expanded and filled in, and others that need an overhaul.

I've also included my general suggestions on reactivity above as well for companions overall. There is a VERY good chance that since we discovered Minthara's lines are so bugged, perhaps these are too? Something to consider for future patches.

as a follow up to what your post above - about Act 3
Agree with the Cazador quest, its basically just a dungeon delve which was a bit disappointing.

Referencing something for Astarion to 'cure' him
All you need is Jaheira and a quick conversation. Or she could have left a note for him on his bed that he finds in the epilogue scene - saves having to recall a VA.
Temple Ruins of Amaunator in the Umar Hills in Amn saw a ritual to restore a vampire to true life. Jaheira may have witnessed it or been part of it but she'd certainly know about it- it was part of a quest in BG2: Shadows of Amn
So no immediate quick solution but it could be part of the ending with Asterion, you can trot back and take Cazadors heart and then make plans to travel there. At least it would be something specific, that is known to actually work. It wouldn't be an ending but would set up a continuation and that you have a goal in mind - a bit more hopeful.

Wish spell would be ideal of course

Referencing his Running from the sun
I hated that, it left me so sad. I should have been able to teleport us both out of harms way and comfort him not stand there like a stump. It was in very poor taste and completely unecessary, why have him make the hopeful remark that it looked like the sun not affecting him had stuck and then have this happen literally a few minutes later.(actually due to my first playthrough having Gale make the snippy remark is why Gale gets left in his portal, if I want a Wizard I'll hire a less vocal one). It felt like it was played for laughs and was completely wrong.

Agree completely on the order of who speaks at the dock. I lost reactions from people I cared about due to someone I had interacted with the least (in my case Minsc) taking the first spot.

Astarion specific epilogue ending felt like it was a different writer, it had little to no emotional impact at all unlike earlier scenes with him. was it chucked in at the last minute cos someone remembered there ought to be one?

Also theres a lot of threads on Astarion ending being less than optimal but one of the ones I came across a while back is this one Tone Deaf

I totally agree with the things mentioned in previous posts. In terms of reactivity I would also love to see for example Volo not only standing in our camp and waiting to catch our eye(pun intended) but also having some other talk with him about maybe the next story he would write or maybe we could ask him to make some performance? The same with other NPCs. I'm not a big fan of puppets without a purpose and life in camp personally; I'd rather imagine them going about their lives and then eventually coming to us for a meaningful scene. It would be cool to see those NPCs in our camp be more proactive in reacting and commenting on what happens in-game and even stating their opinion about what we do. This would give those characters more depth and connection to the plot while enriching it.

When it comes to some text and lore to which characters respond, there is also a lot of loose ends when it comes to what is left from the cut content and it obviously should be cleaned so as to not make player expect unnecessary things in the game just to later leave them with distaste after not encountering those. I know people often mention this in the case of Act 3 but honestly, I found a lot of it in Act 2 too. The best example is the whole uneventful buildup for
That being said, a few days ago I posted a thread with my feedback about storytelling in BGIII when it comes to the purpose of characters, places and events, their role storywise and the consequences of our actions throughout the game.

I also proposed there an idea about "postcard epilogues". Summarizing it: along with the thirty minutes-long credits we could get scenes from the life of various characters post-game. Those still images should have a photo-like tone that shows players the consequences of their actions but still leaves room for imagination. They could also have some short dialogue from characters or commentary written around them to make them more situational and kind of memorable. Thirty minutes is a lot of time to show enough of those for specific companions, some based on random choices made during the journey, for our love interest and our Tav's life with them and finally for the NPCs we met along the way. All those scenes could be done using models and things already in the game, just combined in nicely "frozen in time" moments. Bonus gift also if we could save them afterward as a reward for investing so much time in the game and the "postcard" format should be nice for using them as wallpapers for desktop. It would also give an additional motivation for replay as we could get different images depending on our actions, choices and various Tavs we create. This could really change the tone of the endgame from playthrough to playthrough.

If you want to read the full post along with my specific(and a bit spoiling!) examples of those "postcard" images, You'll find it HERE.

I've also stated my opinion about the idea of "last, final camp" in THIS thread. Since it's not that long, I'll copy it and put it in tags below as there's a small mention of one of the final choices in-game:


And lastly... welp, I'll be salty if, at the end of the final-final version of the game, I don't see Astarion being a daddy to a gith kid... I was not leaving that egg on his camp cushions throughout the game just to raise it myself! (Just kidding, but it's funny to imagine origin characters as parents, uncles and aunts for a little gith!)

Oh yes, I see another fellow Astarion enjoyer. So here are my 2 cents and very heavy spoilers, so be warned:

1. It has been said over and over again, act 1 is a masterpiece, nothing bad to say about it other than Wyll's story rewrite is quite... odd. He still approves of slaughtering gobbos yet all of his backstory with them is completely gone? Why? It expanded his character so much, other than being 1 dimensional goody-two-shoe type of character. I loved the EA scene with Spike and with torturing that one guy (or killing all gobbos in the room before they touch the drums).

Act 2 is really damn good but it's a bit too reliant on dragging SH everywhere. She literally has reactions to everything. Also, some quests love to break if not done in a proper order. That should be rectified (like we had so many approaches to finish certain quests in act 1 and all of that is nearly gone in act 2 and especially in act 3). Ketheric is a goddamn highlight, amazing VA work and an amazing boss fight,if... kinda dumb, I mean, a bunch of lvl 8-10s fighting an avatar of Myrkul? Really? That thing should wipe the floor with us the same way Bhaal snuffed Durge out and/or the same way Vlaakith can just wish us dead at the creche.

But to sum act 2 up I would call it: SH and Ketheric show!

Act 3 is where a lot of the story just falls flat on it's face. First of all - the Emperor and the black hole of plot holes every scene he's in creates. I am totally okay with the 'benevolent' Guardian turning out to have been a mind flayer all along (even though I preferred EA's daisy), what I am not okay with is this:

1. He's supposed to Balduran, right? So why in the cutscene he shows us of his time before ceremorphosis we can clearly see the titular city in the background? Fully constructed? I mean, Baldur's Gate is what, 500-600 yr old as of the timeline BG3 is set in? Balduran was an adventuring sailor who happened to find his way to uncharted lands across the sea and came back to the Sword Coast with untold riches, built the Baldur's Gate (as in the actual Gate leading into what would later become the city). The city didn't just get built in a year, or 2, it took decades. So how old was he when he returned to the Sword Coast from his 2nd voyage he allegedly disappeared in? Yes I know, he was an elf so he could live up to 750 years. He talks about the MF colony that snatched him being under the Moonrise Towers, so he did return to the SC/BG in the last 100 years cause Moonrise is what 150 years old? Tops? Let's say he was a mind flayer for ~100 years. How come he didn't announce himself to the city upon his return originally, before exploring Moonrise? He does strike me as a bit of an attention seeker. Oh and also, wouldn't that mean that he was a mind flayer around the time of BG1? That he might've lived through the aftermath of the Time of Troubles? Also, wouldn't that mean that Ansur was in/under BG for a long ass time before dying and nobody even noticed? Hmmm. Sure, dragons do like their humanoid forms (Firkraag, Adalon, Abazigal) I suppose. Still no reason to not reveal yourself as the city's great protector at least to some people.

2. Stelmane. So when you are a meanie to the Emperor when he just shows up half naked in your dream (naughty naughty) and distrust him consistently, he shares with you a memory of how he caused Stelmane's aneurysm while also calling you a puppet. Okay. Being called and used as a puppet I can take in stride. Fine. How come is it never ever brought up again? You can't discuss that new information with anyone, not even with Emperor himself. WHY? I mean, there were enough breadcrumbs: like finding Stelmane's doctor's journal that also leads you to conclude that the 'tall robed figure' did something to her. Just like Ansur revealing him to be the long lost hero Balduran can never be discussed with the Emperor ever again, but at least Wyll, Wyll's father and the rest of the party do have some thoughts to share about this revelation. Just not about Stelmane, eh?

3. Endgame choice. Enough has been said about his entire character falling apart the moment we choose Orpheus, it's appalling and completely out of damn character. And most frustrating of all? He can't be stopped. You can't toss a damn spear in the portal he goes through in hopes that maybe he gets hit? Not a chance to talk him out of it? "You choose Orpheus? KKTHXBYE" like what is this writing?

4. Companion quests pretty much leading nowhere, aside from Wyll's (cause of ties to Ansur and the Emperor) and Lae'zel's (McGuffin chase of Orphic Hammer) that have direct ties to the main story and improve it, somewhat.

Karlach wants to cave Gortash's face in and it's totally deserved (and understandable). SH's ties to the main story kind of disappeared the moment act 3 rolled around (which is so damn Gith-centric it's crazy)...

And here comes the biggest offender: Astarion's plot, while I absolutely love his character, Larian did the entire vampire plot of Cazador such a damn disservice. Cazador comes off as a damn petty clown during the encounter, not this all powerful, smart force of political power and intrigue behind much of the Upper City. I guess that part was cut cause, yeah, no Upper City access for us in the game as it is. Such a wasted opportunity. What I expected is a welcome to a ball in session, to some display as to why Astarion fears Cazador so much... You know of this writing technique - 'show, don't tell'? We've been told by Astarion the entire game how awful Cazador is, but we've never seen it, meanwhile this technique is constantly utilized when it comes to Dark Urge's story events, which were absolutely disgustingly graphic (and props to Larian for not holding that back!). Anyway, back to Cazador, imagine how amazing it would be if we'd be forced to play along to his little farce of a ball (otherwise a bunch of 'innocent' nobles in audience would die along with Cazador instantly snatching Astarion away for his ritual) like think of all the possibilities! But no, Cazador's a laughable clown of a villain. Ugh.

5. Dark Urge's reactivity in act 3... don't get me started. It's all more or less fine until the duel with Orin, then the game reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally drops the ball. Companions barely react to anything. Not EVEN YOUR DAMN LOVE INTEREST. When Bhaal snuffs Durge out, companions, especially LI's should have a reaction other than standing around with a shocked expression on their faces and weapons drawn. LI should rush to Durge's body, crying, screaming, trying to resurrect them and other companions could act similarly to the way Joker in ME3 gets told that Shepard ain't coming back and that they have to go, only for Withers to swoop in with a miraculous solution.

I have posted these pictures in another thread but I will repost them here, under spoiler tags cause they're taking too much space as it is with an explanation why. So Astarion has totally different reactions to certain events in act 3 totally depending on him being ascended or a spawn, an example of the conversation after Ailyn defeats Lorroakan:


He also has similar reactions (that are different depending on his vamp lord vs spawn status) to meeting Araj Oblodra again in act 3, that short Haarlep cutscene if you slept with him in HoH, conversation after slaughtering Raphael and Ansur, being talked to in the end game (Morphic Pool/Astral Prism/Upper City ruins). But when it comes to Durge's pivotal story moment, both of his versions have the exact same thing to say?


And while with Haarlep using Tav/Durge's body - Astarion had 2 separate line deliveries even if he said mostly the same thing (and the dialogue wasn't an exact copypaste - it's clear to tell which is spawn and which is ascended) - there are examples of that on youtube as well. Well, this pivotal Durge moment has none of that. Even better, I decided to check what happens if you accept Bhaal (aside from Jaheira/Minsc leaving) and spawn, allegedly good Astarion still had that line about "Bhaal's dowry"! Like my dude! You should be disgusted, not happy! I am pretty sure all romancable companions have the same issues in that scene, I would be not surprised if Sharran vs Selunite SH had the exact same responses to this event as well!

But really, when it comes to Dark Urge's story I really feel like it was disentangled from EA's Tav (Tav had the urges to chomp on Daisy and also that dream of BG on fire screams very much Bhaalspawn to me), made extra bloody (rather than being just some rando Bhaalspawn on a quest of self discovery perhaps), added connections to the city via being the mastermind together with Gortash behind the Absolute scam. Maybe someone in Larian thought that twist was too similar to Gorion's ward's story? Altho, imagine how spicy it could be if basic Tav was a Bhaalspawn and didn't even know it... Currently in the game as it is, basic Tav meets only 2 out of 3 avatars of the dead 3: Myrkul's we fight, Bane can be spoken to via speak with dead spell on Gortash (and funnily it has no voice over ) and Bhaal is only available to Durge. Quite... odd.

6. Party banter from that vid of Dana Duchy you linked, yeah, I did hear a few of these banters super early in the game, mind you those were companions flirting with each other: I heared Wyll complimenting Lae's eyes, then he complimented SH and she said she was not interested cause she heared what he said to Lae, Astarion calling SH a flower, then Astarion enjoying the walks with Gale and oh, there were a few that Dana did not post, that had alterations depending on whether Astarion tried to bite Tav and revealed himself as a vamp spawn or not. Yes there are banters in the game that get altered by that! But I have heard none of companions commenting on Tav/Astarion's growing romance. Nothing, the entire game! I believe it has been bugged, or a switch wasn't flipped by Larian to enable these banters. And such a shame too.

Speaking of Tav getting KO'd/dying in combat, I barely hear companions commenting on that. On both runs. I sometimes hear Astarion shouting "Oh no my sweet bloodthirsty friend!" and I am like, don't you have anything else to say about Durge you are in romance with other than "friend"? It was even worse for basic Tav who romanced him.

7. 'Epilogue' choices... so, why romanced spawn-Starion still needs to be reassured that I do in fact still wanna be with him? Wasn't that already established a bunch of times already?
1. At the graveyard scene
2. After Durge gets resurrected (sorry basic Tavs)
3. Morphic Pool/Astral Prism/Upper City ruins mini conversations

Not to mention the travesty of him running away burning and that being treated as some sort of comedic relief? Nay I say.

Also the entire debacle of who gets to speak in cutscenes... here I have an idea: rerecord a bunch of lines and make them all have back and forth conversations after defeating the brain? So everyone gets to say something? And prior to that, make it so everyone in the party always says their piece in cutscenes. Here, done! Problem solved.

I can answer this one. His entire purpose is survival. Guess what he's not going to do when Orpheus is released? That's right, be allowed to live. So to him, it's better to cast his lot with the Netherbrain in hopes of getting another chance to free himself in the future. He's not looking to be a martyr or serve the greater good. He's in it for himself and you and your party members are just a means to an end. He doesn't even have a soul.

Okay, I concede, he doesn't have a soul. But that entire 180 turn is just so abrupt. In most situations the characters usually try to reason with you, talk you into or out of certain decisions.

The moment you say: "Let's free Orpheus!" he just dunks out immediately, instead of trying to reason his way out of this situation. Before his excuse was that "Orpheus hates mind flayers and mind flayers in the making, so he will attack on sight!"

And surprise surprise, the moment Orpheus is freed, he is actually pretty reasonable, aside from few accusations. The githyanki egg was indeed a trap (even if we kept it stashed away the entire time) and it's quite understandable he'd be pissed, but killing his honor guard? Who were provoked in the first place by the Emperor? And then he claims they would've freed him. Somehow. A deed they weren't able to accomplish for 1k years. Also, without the Orphic Hammer or any other means of breaking those chains. Yeah, nice story buddy.

Regardless, all Emperor had to is wait it out and see if Orpheus' hatred towards him was stronger than his desire to kill the brain (both of 'em share a common goal after all, they just go about achieving it differently) and free his people. Maaaaaybe if Emperor proved himself, he wouldn't be killed just like mind flayered Karlach and Tav aren't. Like shit, give us a DC 99 persuasion check to convince those 2 to work together. Anything really.

He literally says he needs you, that he's obliged to overlook your transgressions, but that really you should've offered yourself up to his honor guard to be killed for being infected. An honorable death to him.

Not so much reasonable as that he really needs you as much as you need him.


That wouldn't have been in character for The Emperor. He doesn't gamble with his life, which you can see if you try to kill him at the behest of Vlaakith.

If you think about it logically, the moment you meet his honor guard the brain was already breaking out of Gortash and Orin's control.

Say, we and the Emperor die and his guard gets Ketheric's Netherstone. What then? They still can't free him. They weren't able to do so for as long as they've been locked away with him in the Prism. You seem to be forgetting that Orpheus wasn't locked in the Prism alone. Sure, from Orpheus' standpoint dying to his honor guard would've been honorable, but it would also doom the Sword Coast to the Netherbrain. Thousands would die regardless. At least as it is presented in the game currently, the only people who have to die are his honor guard (and possibly he himself if he decides to sacrifice himself to become a mind flayer, which would've been avoided if Emperor used his brain for once) and we get to save those thousands of people who otherwise would be doomed. It's basically an more elaborate 'trolley problem'.


Ho ho, my friend! I am aware! It's not my 1st run, on my first run I went along with the Emperor and remained somewhat friendly with him until the end (by end I mean freeing Orpheus). On my 2nd, Durge run I stabbed him there. The end result is the same. He still tells you about Stelmane once you find out she's dead and he still shows up half naked in your dreams later on trying to manipulate you. So much for consequences, eh? The only thing that's different are some responses.

And look, you think it wouldn't have been in character. Okay. Let me present you with this thought experiment: you are the Emperor, a mind flayer that would do anything for survival and freedom (from the brain). Your puppets want to 'betray' you and risk your freedom. What would you do?
a) try to reason with them and talk them out of it
b) go along with it, but make them swear that should Orpheus go KOS mode, they will defend you
- if they swear that, let them do it
x they free Orpheus and he wants to attack you and your puppets want to join him instead of upholding their oath? piss off to the Netherbrain right there
x Orpheus turns out to be a lot more reasonable than you expected him to be, agree to the temporary truce, after all, you need each other
- if they don't, piss off to join the Netherbrain then and there
c) stun them, try to steal the Triune Stone to control the brain on your own leaving them to their fates against Orpheus
d) attack them with the intention of stealing the Triune Stone
e) piss off as you do now and become a potential casualty in the fight should they actually succeed

That is the main reason why so many people are pissed off, including myself, that Emperor just pisses off. There should be a condition under which the Emperor can be convinced to stay. Like damn, Ketheric can be talked into Saren'ing himself (Mass Effect 1's analogy, if you played it you should understand) and it's the most satisfying outcome to Ketheric's conflict to me personally. And yet, Emperor can't be talked into actually using that illithid big brain of his into seeing another solution other than pissing off for a tea with the Netherbrain?

+1, totally love this scenario here and would go for this in-game if I could, much more reasonable than what we've got. I personally don't understand why we're so railroaded with some of the characters. Like... the Emperor and Astarion(at the beggining of the game) are mirrors to each other, survivors!(and mind you there are other situations like that in game...) If you understood Astarion's character and gave him a chance and the Emperor cleary saw this... if You've met Omeluum and was friendly with him, and yet again the Emperor must have know about this... Why would he not give you at least a chance to explain yourself, appeal to his reasoning? Especially if You somewhat bonded with him! Why not promise You that he will let Orpheus go after all of this(and indeed make him the evil one if he would eat the prince behind Your back, that would at least give us a real and serious reason for wanting to kill him and a cool plot twist for scheming character)? I see him going to the Netherbrain as a desperate attempt to preserve himself, but only when all other choices would have been outed and how is it handled now shows he doesn't even believe in Tav's and companions abilities to preserve themselves which contradicts precisely all of his mighty plan to build up trust with them and use them for it. Why using things that You know wouldn't work?

And Omeluum... I greatly dissapprove how he was used in the story. Cleary his only purpose was for us to see that there can be somewhat good aligned mindflayer and to give us some boon(which have a lot worse meaning storywise and mechanicaly in full realese of the game). That just it. Meeting him don't have any meaning for the Tav and companions, they don't even have a serious talk about this; there is not even "oh, the Emperor is mindflayer, we know another one we could ask for advice in this matter" talk. The narration unreasonably takes from player a choice for Omeluum to be an ally in the end of game in which one of most vital points is freedom from Elder Brain for a mindflayer! You give player a character that have a power to get himself out of control of Elder Brain, capable of self sacrifice and think nobody would think about asking him for help in the matter when he cleary also is in danger along with all the Sword Coast if the Netherbrain plan comes to life? It's a huge overlook in various ways for me.