Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion [END SPOILS WARNING] Addressing Karlach (PLEASE PUT SPOILERS IN TAGS)

Yeah, I wouldnt be dooming and glooming just yet. Like others have said larian has taken player feedback seriously in their previous projects and the karlach feedback is...LOUD... i mean this thread alone is outpacing days the games been released in pages... I dont think were going to get a roadmap though as thats not larians style and its too soon anyway.

We have no clue what they gonna do with her either. Act 1 came out that good because of iterative player feedback, before it all characters were really edgy and obnoxious.

Larians were left for their own devices for act 2 and 3 and while act 2 carried some of the goodness of the first, act 3 falls flat real hard. I just don't believe they can produce something good on their own without consistent outside community feedback anymore. If they shut up for a year without communication about what they gonna improve and how and just release EE without constant "this is boring/annoying shit" takes from the concerned fans I doubt it would be any good, still better than what they released but not perfect. I mean they released that ridiculous Karlach cigars ending and announced it like it was something good to satisfy the players.

The game ABSOLUTELY deservedly received such high marks. Absolutely awesome game, with absolutely great developers.

I understand you're upset about something, but don't turn into whining assholes.

If a game like this doesn't deserve high marks for you, then I can't imagine what game deserves them.

Exactly, of course act3 has some issues but still the game in actual state is better than 99% of the games released in last 5 years.

I mean i kinda agree from both sides. The game has so much going for it. Like god damn larian did an amazing job on 95% of this game. But that sadly just makes that 5% of missing content/ story issues/ ending issues all the more glaring because of it imo its like having a 4 course meal where the first 3 courses are fantastic etc etc...but half way through desert it just starts to taste sour and bitter. You leave remembering the sour and bitter. Everything else is overshadowed by it really
So does it deserve the praise its gotten? 100% and larian deserves the credit due for what they have worked on.
But they also deserve the critizism for that last 5%. We should just be respectful about it. While voicing concerns and calls for them to address it. Far more likely we will get what were hoping for that way id wager.

Yeah see, that's the trouble though, on some level it doesn't matter what they do, because someone will be left unsatisfied. Look at this thread alone - some want the overall tragedy to stay and just be able to fight for a good ending, some think that the tragedy itself is outblown to the point of ooc and characterization needs to be fixed, some decidedly promise to drop the game whatsoever if there's no good ending, some are fine with the current endings and just want a proper quest leading up to them so that the player feels like they indeed did all they could, some want a quick fix NOW, some would prefer a bigger content addition later, some are only annoyed with the quest lacking and some dislike tragedy as a concept, for some it ruins the whole game and some love the game, just wanting a fix, etc etc, and within feedback realm all our opinions are equal.

So no matter what fix we get, if we get it, they'll choose only one route to follow out of all that, and some of us will very likely be at least partially disappointed, 'cause clearly we're imagining different things (well, not every single one of us, but you know, opinions are shared)

And in that framework I'd rather take what Larian and official writers (and the voice actor, god forbid someone tries to AI her voice for a mod) present as a solution, 'cause that at least would be 'a word of god', whether we like what it says or not. Because if fans try to do it it's just a shitshow of arguing for the correct approach waiting to happen, imo.

The cigar ending is a prime example of all that by the way. For some it's ridiculous, some generally like it with some critique (personally I'm just lacking a more firm ground for the tonal shift in regards to Avernus, if we ignore the sudden jump the campy cutscene itself is fine by me, loved running away into the credits epically lol), some took it as a genuine change for the better. For a lot of people the problem wasn't even the cutscene, it was the community update phrasing.

I'm sure feedback wasn't a uniform monolith opinion back in EA days either, and yet per your assessment they did rather good using that critique as a jumping point. I, for one, trust them to do it again.

I will say i dont really understand the ppl who want to be able to *fight for a good ending but ultimately fail* based on this threads start abd most other posts regarding karlach i assume the vast majority of ppl want a possible good ending of her being able to stay with a fixed engine or her real heart.
Arguing to just have more steps to same tragedy conckusion seems to defeat the purpose of the original issue most ppl have. Which is - every other charactrr has a way to change their fate for the better abd have an arguibly happy ending /with tav if romanced aswell.
But not karlach. Thats a glaring inconsistency in a game about choices mattering and freedom to pursue different paths in the story.
I personally dont want a more justified reason for karlach to HAVE to die or HAVE to return to hell in the end. I want an option to save her.
That in its self DOESNT take away from ppl who are ok with tragedy cause they can CHOOSE to have that tragedy.
But for the rest of us....let us CHOOSE to save her

Not only it deletes purpose of her character and questline, but also deletes purpose of RPG. I honestly have no idea how many times do I have to repeat it, character being doomed in RPG just because, is a trash writing (actually character being doomed in RPG is trash writing, period), even more trash if she's the only one who's doomed, EVEN more trash if her issue is literally the easiest to fix lore wise. Even Astarion has some resemblance of good ending, unlike Karlach you actually can look for a cure together, instead of cosplaying call of duty zombies, while devs call this bullshit "ending she deserves"

Well I'd say it's mostly more of a

"We'd very much like to Actually Help her BUT IF you want to double down and be dead set on this current tragic direction then AT LEAST give it proper weight", something like that

To clarify, I'd, like, VERY MUCH would love to actually save her 'cause as you've said, changing fates, actual impact, everything that we have with other companions but not with her, which feels very undeserved considering her whole character and story. That's the reason I came across this thread in the first place - the second Dammon dropped the news I ran to the Internet to make sure we can change that (SIGH)

But if for some reason we just can't have that no matter what (which I doubt, but IF), then at the very least I'd like the current storyline to not make me feel like a clown with the "ah well we did all we could!" notification after an extra-short fetch quest, y'know

Let me be VERY clear:

I want the OPTION for a happy ending for Karlach. Don't make it simple or easy or straightforward. But give me the OPTION.

What the fuck is the point of playing again to see different outcomes if the outcome for one of the stories I'm most interested in ALWAYS has the same ending.

Gale gets a Deus Ex if he just hangs around long enough.

Fucking Shadowheart gets TWO happy endings depending on your perspective.

Karlach just feels like an afterthought and almost feels like the devs actively dislike her.

I agree that we all have different ideas for the HOW, but the one thing we ALL want is for a save Karlach/Karlach lives and is okay in Faerûn ending.

I absolutely want to be able to end tragically or in Avernus, keep those in for replayability and flavor or choice (as some people genuinely feel satisfied with that and accept them for what they are). But if everyone else can get a remotely good ending, so should Karlach.

If I want her to be able to live out her dream of growing old with Tav and maybe scaling down a bit on the rage/living a simpler life, GIVE IT TO ME. Or rather, LET US GIVE IT TO HER.

Words both us and our Tavs would agree with, I think.

The way her romance is written aside from the angst makes my character expremely want a chance to give her anything and everything just to make her happy in any way possible. That of course VERY MUCH includes giving her, uh, LIFE--

And I do think that desire persists even if your characters are just friends - she just deserves good things, what can we do

(apparently nothing, until further notice.)

Larian isn't a soulless corporation. They aren't even a corporation. They're the most responsive studio there is.

Exactly, I had also during the romance few conversations about kids and she liked the idea. And then "We did everything we could to save her" and sent her to hell at the end... Wow. Good ending has to be one of the possibilities for sure, there is no reason why not. If you play as evil or don't care about her, ok actual endings make complete sence, but not if you play as good character or romance her.

True

SPOILERS:

I've reached Act 3 romacing Karlach. Loved the character. I am a sucker for this combination of badassery and kindness. So I dove into her development. It was my main priority honestly.

When I had the interaction with the Steel Watcher, I felt the game was leading me somwhere, and I was sure that we would be able to fix her infernal engine. So, down to the factory. When I defeated the first Steel Watcher, it dropped the Enriched Infernal Iron. I found the better version of what is used to encase her engine, so I was even more sure that we would be able to fix her engine. All I needed was to help the gondians, and surely, since they had experience with the upgraded infernal iron version, they would be able to help. So I manage to save everyone on the Iron Throne. It was quite hard, but it would be worth it, because agaian, FOR SURE the gondians would be able to help the character I was investing time on.

So, I did everything and found strange when my OC didn't mention her heart to the gondians... OK, let's face Gortash. The speech she gave after it was awesome, and it would make the moment we fix her engine much more impactful. So not wanting to ruin my time investment in this character, I compromised to read spoilers for her endings.

For fucks sake... She has no good endings. How is that even possible? In my head we had plenty oportunities storywise to fix her. Fuck, she even mentioned a Wish speIl. I was mad at the writers for playing me dirty there... But after thinking a little, I came to the conclusion that her character is unfinished. Larian is not bad at creating stories. I prefer to think they dropped the ball somewhere, and compromised on releasing a finished character. It's not ideal, but it happens. What makes me worried is Larian saying that the last update gave her desired ending... I hope this was communication mistake, honestly. Her desired ending is simple: her engine fixed and away from Avernus, while being herself.

I dropped this campaign, and started anew, with few mods to spice a little. But I am steering waaaaaaay clear from Karlach and Wyll. Karlach for being unfinished, and Wyll because I feel his story is too tied to Karlach's, and I fear he is also unfinished.

Basicly line for line how i was my first playthough and the thoughts I had

Welcome to the "It's the hope that kills you" storytelling.

"Hope" is such a strange way to spell 'Plot holes'

So many players dropped their campaigns (or speedran to the end just for the sake of ending) after the Gortash scene/ Karlach’s monologue. That seems proof enough that there’s a BIG problem here.

I have a question: Can ascended vampire Astarion bite Karlach and make her a spawn?

He can’t bite her at first because she’ll burn him, but he should be able to after the upgrades. What is the twist for him not to be able to do that?

I’m very curious. It’d be wild if THAT allowed her to stay in Faerun, but someone would’ve already screamed about it if it were a possibility, I assume.