Originally Posted by tsurugi
Anyway I don't think I'm going to get much more out of this discussion because the constant talk of knocking her out as somehow being a more acceptable path than.. what Larian has currently written is super uncomfortable and weird imo.
It's really important to remember people are saying knock her out as an alternative to killing her outright. As Alarac said people constantly bring up knocked out status as a viable method of enabling her recruitment at Moonrise because the game already uses that in other situations and it is BY FAR the easiest way to change her recruitment availability as it requires no extra writing and no change to events as they already occur. It's just an under the hood change to the programming because for some reason the game counts her as dead if you non-lethally defeat her; the only reason it's like that is to prevent her recruitment when you complete the "Defeat the Goblin Leaders" quest. It's being talked about as a videogame mechanic that is currently programmed to leave her dead even when she's not, and the suggestion is that if she's not dead the game shouldn't count her as dead so that you can complete that quest and still rescue her in Moonrise. There's nothing to be uncomfortable about there. It's a lot more uncomfortable that Larian has decided she's not allowed to exist even if you explicitly don't kill her when you save the tieflings.

spoiler because even though it's a direct response continuing what's in the spoiler any further would probably need to happen in Minthara's fan or story threads (and I'm being genuine about that, continue the line of thought in one of those threads and I'll continue it with you there, but not here)
But hey since you brought it up yes absolutely knocking her out instead of killing her is WAY better than the sex scene with a victim of mind control. If you want something to really feel uncomfortable about it's how wildly messed up that is and how it's positioned as a REWARD being given to the player for senseless slaughter, and it just gets more messed up that it's required for her romance. It's abjectly heinous.

Like everyone wants her to have more content to explore so it'd be really cool if she got a little more of a personal narrative arc using some of those hints about True Souls being ignorant of tadpoles you come across in the goblin camp to talk her down the way you could with Nere of all people (at least in Early Access not sure if that made it to the final game) who is more evil as a person than Minthara ever is. There's all kinds of cool stuff about her that it'd be fun to have more content added for, like her family! That could be the focus of an entire expansion in Menzoberranzan because there's just so much meat to dig into there. But those are COLOSSALLY bigger asks and super unlikely to ever happen because of the much bigger work load they would entail (and Karlach's personal quest in Act 3 needs that work more, honestly). So the best suggestion is the simplest one, i.e. have the game carry her forward to Moonrise when she hasn't been killed. Nothing else needs to change (other than continuing to fix her bugs).

Last edited by Auric; 20/09/23 08:36 AM.