Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Build Discussion my perfect party that kill everything

polearm master with greatswords i just loled hard, warrior have like 7-23 dmg or something like this and you telling savage attacksr is bad if you roll 20 dmg insted 7 with 2 dice rolls insted one ? i just rolled even more hard if you dont know how shity is rng in this game xD

lol, No.

Monk does more damage (gentleman above already did 2 breakdowns for you), has more armor, much more mobile, has better saves (dex and wis are the most important saving throws in the game), always acts first in combat because of superior initiative, has better hard crowd control (stunning strike), takes reduced damage from missile attacks, can stealth, can handle perception (most important skill in the game). I'll take 1 monk instead of 2 warriors any day.

yeah sure, still warrior is better than monk in any time
monk have much more durability while get 1 hit ko from crits xD xD xD

and now tell me why enemies warriors are much more deadly than monks ?

i have no problem vs monks while enemies warriors can take my char in 1 turn, its from enemies fightes and enemies paladins, weird

paladin,barbarian,warrior } monk

Ah that's right, OP greatswords so no Polearm Master. That means I should've taken you at your word when you said 6 attacks per round. No consistent bonus action attack, no consistent mechanism for using your reaction offensively. And you're dealing 7-23 damage, which means you absolutely cannot use Great Weapon Master all the time while hitting everything, since you have it off. So your Fighter is doing 6 attacks per turn with an average damage of 17, or 102 average damage if everything hit.

Meanwhile the Monk is doing 35.5 damage per attack, over 7 attacks, for 248.5 damage if everything hit, with a much higher attack bonus as well.

Yeah no, the Fighter the way you've built and are using them, is not dealing anywhere close to as much as a Monk would if built and played optimally.

As far as getting critted, if there's someone that threatening on the field, Patient Defense makes it so they only have a 1 in 400 chance to crit. I mean why not at this point, with only 4 attacks the Monk is already doing more damage than the Fighter, and as previously indicated with Patient Defense up that means the Monk has 1/3 the number of incoming hits the Fighter has, with a crit being rare enough you'll see maybe 2 all game. And if it does happen? Well the Monk has 135 HP at level 12, how many HP does your Fighter have who has far superior durability? The Monk is always rocking resistance to bludgeoning, piercing and slashing damage while in combat, does your Fighter have that? Based on you talking about your fighter going down in 1 round, I somewhat doubt it.

And sure, sometimes you get 20 damage instead of 7, +13 damage on that attack. But more than half the time, it's doing absolutely nothing, as the second roll is the same or worse than the initial roll. Over the course of the game, averaged out, It's +2 damage per attack on your character, with zero control over when it's going to give you that +13 and when it's going to be utterly useless. Which is fine, but since you've only got a Str of 18 and can't even use GWM all the time a Str ASI for +1 damage, +1 to hit would do a lot better for you. There's also Mobile or Athlete of course, or, the *actual* S tier feat which is the one my Monk would be taking, which is to say, "Lucky". I could actually get critted (despite it being 1/400) 3x in a long rest, and instead, I just don't. Is there a roll I need to make in a conversation or for story purposes I *really* want to make but failed? Let's reroll. If RNG is shitty, Lucky makes it so that at key moments, it's far less shitty.

But hey, you keep doing you with Savage Attacker and Fighter. Rock out your AC of 18, your 7-23 damage with +11 to hit, getting taken down in 1 turn by enemy fighters and paladins. I'll stick with my Monk with an AC of 21, with 25-46 damage with +20 to hit, with more armor, more damage, I suspect more HP, and WAY more mobility.

If someone completely dumb or just brand new to the game for them the game is hard. For the reset of use it's easy.

This game played with 4 party members will destroying every challenge like it was nothing.
It simply don't matter what we are useing. Class balance is really great in the game. I don't find any class that is underperforms and actually this is really good .
But for new players I suggest always go with tank healer dps rouge. That's optimal and kind a fun too.

While it's true that the game certainly can be easy if played optimally, there's no guarantee whatsoever that simply having 4 party members will let you destroy every challenge like it's nothing. I know several others who talked about how many times they *lost* encounters, all over the place, and had to try 3x or more (one person talked about redoing a fight 7x to beat it. 7x!) and the OP is talking about being taken down in one turn by enemies, and based on everything they've said, it certainly doesn't seem like the fight against the Devil Guy was a super easy one which was destroyed like it was nothing. It's not very polite or fair to assume such individuals are dumb or brand new to the game. Just because they haven't made optimal choices and are thus struggling more than necessary, that isn't necessarily an indication they are bad, new, or dumb.

For example there was a thread where someone talked about how they did Tactician mode solo with a Fighter. I couldn't figure out why they chose Fighter of all things, and ultimately they revealed their friends had told them how bad Fighter was so they took it as a challenge to use just Fighter to win. They were quite deliberately playing on 'hard mode', and sure they struggled a lot more than they would have if using a Monk or something else, but they did it, and more power to them.

As far as your comp, it's close but I don't agree with it 100%. Tank Healer Rogue is correct, but DPS is covered by your Tank and Rogue already, and your healer will contribute there. Caster is the 4th, you want someone who can buff, debuff, damage and support, depending on the situation. Wizard, Sorcerer, Bard, Druid, Warlock, Cleric, any full caster is fine. DPS works instead, you could rock Barbarian Monk Rogue Cleric as a party as an example, as you say you can use just about anything and have success. But it's definitely not 'optimal' compared to Monk Rogue Cleric Sorcerer or Paladin Rogue Druid Wizard, you'll have a lot more situations that you struggle with if your only caster is your dedicated healer.

Curiously, what stats do you give your monk?

Do you rely on respec after getting the dex gloves?

Don't know how it'll go but my plan is:

Wyll: Way of the Four Elements Monk
Karlach: Berserker Barbarian
Lae'zel: Vengeance Paladin
Gale: Storm Sorc/Tempest Cleric

No, I don't use the Dex gloves because the gloves slot is too important, for either the Str gloves if you don't have / don't want to use potions, or far more importantly on a Monk these guys: https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Gloves+of+Soul+Catching

It's 8 Str, 8 Cha, 8 Int, 17 Dex, 16 Wis, 15 Con. Give Con the boost from Tavern Brawler to hold you over until you get the Con amulet, then respec Con into Int because you have the points to spare. Get Dex a boost from Ethel and level 8 is an ASI for Wisdom. If you don't want to use up the Ethel boost on Dex you'll need to take a half feat instead of Lucky, specifically Athlete on this guy, then your jump distance is absolutely obscene. But of course that's assuming single class, if going with one of the many great MC options (Rogue and / or Barb being my personal preference, but Druid works well too) that'll change things significantly. The OP is focused on pure classes 1-12 though so with pure 1-12 Monk that'd be the way I'd go.

Semi-relevant, but might I suggest using https://bg3.wiki/ over Fextralife? No need to support people who scum their twitch by embedding it on every page.
https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Gloves_of_Soul_Catching

As others have mentioned that you listed Monk so low is insane. Monks do ridiculous damage at higher levels. I have to assume you have never used one or don't know how to build and equip them. Key items in Act three make it so they can easily hit 200-250 damage per round. Multiclass they can go much higher than that.

S Tier:

Light Cleric Wood Elf
Open Palm Monk Wood Elf (Gloves of Soul catching, Boots of Uninhibited Kushigo, The Graceful Cloth)
Githyanki Evocation Wizard
Dwarven* Berserker Barbarian dual wielding Tavern Brawler with the Dwarven Thrower and Nyrulna (they both return)

*or you can just use the mask of many faces to look like a Dwarf and the extra weapon damage will proc.

Honestly - even the most challenging fights won't last more than 2 rounds with this group so there is no need for anything but haste potions.

If you need a character dedicated to healing then your fights are lasting too long or you have Karmic dice on.

Not to disagree at all, I'm just wondering some things regarding the comp you are proposing :

- What is the purpose of the light cleric here ? You are saying that you don't need a dedicated healer with a good comp, point I totally agree with (My actual team comp right now is REALLY on the OP side so I VERY rarelyhave to heal). So what is a point to bring a light cleric ? Wouldn't be more logical to take a class that can do some side healing just in case while being a respectable damage dealer / buffer ? I'm thinking of another cleric subclass or maybe a druid ?

- Why are you specifically choosing a Githyanki for the evo wizard ?

Again, I'm not arguing against anything, I don't have enough knowledge to be in these kind of theory crafting about classes and comps... Rather I'm trying to learn more

Going to assume because Githyanki have Medium armor proficiency.

As GloriousZote pointed out Githyanki have Medium Armor but they also get:

1) Innate Spells - jump, misty step, and mage hand.
2) They also get Greatsword and Longsword proficiency, so at lower levels as an Evo wizard you can be a frontline Wizard with a Hill Giant Strength potion, either thudnerin' them waves or slapping them faces.
3) They don't have the movement speed penalty that Shield Dwarves have
4) They are incredibly attractive as a race and I won't hear otherwise. Claiming they "don't have noses" and they "look like frogs" is just rude.

So you can easily hit 19 AC with good gear at lower levels and be incredibly useful at every level.

The key to a truly great build is that it pays dividends at level 1 and doesn't have to wait for some high end gear in Act 3 to work decently. I actually hate playing with players that think like that because 1) they assume the game will make it that far and 2) they just take up space suckking until they get their item that makes the build they have work.

Light Cleric is an incredible Utility class that can dish out massive damage and is extremely tanky.

1) Warding Flare /Impose Disadvantage on an enemy attacker 1/per turn uses Reaction.
2) Radiance of the Dawn - 2d10 + Wis mod - HUGE AOE that only hits hostiles - Channel Divinity
3) Fireball and Destructive Wave

Plus they bring all the usual utility that Clerics have - the only downside is they don't get any special weapon proficiencies or armor, but they are perfect for the Blood of Lathander which kicks so much ass in the shadow cursed lands. They also get Daylight as an Always prepared spell which is really nice. Daylight, as I am sure you know, blinds undead and shadow creatures, same as the mace.

Finally, and this is a big one, Drow and or High Elves get Perception as a racial + Wisdom is the key attribute in perception. Combine that with items that give advantage on perception checks and you have what is basically a "Perceptor" character. They always see stuff.

Jahiera makes a better Rogue/Monk than Astarion or a Better Cleric than Shadowheart because she starts with Perception.

What you’re referring to as far as being useful at level 1 is what I’ll typically refer to as “power spike levels”. For casters, that’s every new spell level unlocked, for martials it’s when they unlock extra attacks, reliable expertise is a big one for Rogues, etc. it’s bad if they’re excessively delayed and the character is only spiking at level 10,11,12.

That being said while your comp is fine if going single Class only (though I’d argue it would be better served with a Rogue instead of a Barb), it’s also the perfect example of the power of multiclassing. After all, if you go Sorc and/or Cleric on your Wiz after 2, you don’t actually delay your power spikes at all, and the amount lost is absolutely minimal Vs what you gain. You’ll still be casting 5th level Wiz spells at 9, etc, just with more going on besides.

It’s not typically as free to multiclass as it is with Wizards, but still, the point remains. Same deal if you did want that Rogue and were permitting multiclassing. Even if you prefer pure Rogue for Invis at will and reliable expertise, those are at 9+. Knowing your power spike levels, it’s then basically free (well 100G) to instead go Ranger 5-8, get a lesser invis going early and an extra ambush attack etc, then respec once the additional Rogue levels actually result in a payoff.

The monk, in truth is a 4 Rogue/8 Monk and starts as a Rogue. Because we are talking Drow/High Elf Rogue/Monk you get perception for free as a racial. Really ends up being a way better rogue than Astarion - because you always put them in front and they WILl catch every ambush before it happens since they almost never fail the perception checks. They are always in front of the turn order and make a solid Tank as well. Just make sure they have the Hellrider Longbow - it will give them advantage on perception Checks (ACT 2 Item)

Otherwise you gear them as a Monk and at Level 12 you are doing 200-300 damage per round.

The Wizard I would propose is never not useful since you get the Hill Giant Strength potions as soon as you get to the grove so they maintain a high power level - even at low levels as a skirmisher doing 8-18 damage per hit with a Greatsword, and also having close in Evocation spells that only really work on the frontline anyway. Later they will trade the greatsword for a staff of some sort but early on you work better as the Skirmisher and need less long rests.

Just use salami.

GiantOctopodes offers detailed breakdowns with actual numbers and statistics. In other words, game facts.
Dynia offers... fanboi opinion and emotional bias?

GiantOctopodes wins.
Dynia loses.

End of story.

Play what makes you happy

First, let me say that I'm not disputing the effectiveness of monks. I particularly like the class.

But in fairness, I'd make a few points:

1. Savage Attacker is better than implied, especially because the great weapon fighting style does not reroll ones and twos perpetually. It is a one time reroll, which is substantially helped by savage attacker, especially when additional dice begin piling up.

2. Precision attack and evasive footwork have to be considered more fully. As well as riposte. Short rests are not exactly hard to come by.

3. The comparison offered is based on the use of strength potions which is naturally going to favor the monk with the tavern brawler feat. The monk, without respec, simply doesn't have the point spread. This causes a heavy reliance on elixirs and potentially slot items that aren't necessarily needed by the fighter. For instance, while the monk needs either a respec or an elixir to make effective use of tavern brawler, the fighter could be using an elixir of bloodlust, granting even more actions.

1. Your point about great weapon fighting not rerolling ones or twos perpetually is accurate and fair. But I disagree with its characterization as "substantial". It took me longer than I would've liked to go ahead and get the AnyDice comparisons built to get the actual numbers, but here you go:

https://anydice.com/program/3214a

The "GWF" is Great Weapon Fighting; "Savage" is with Savage Attacker, "Both" is with Both, of course. This is all for the 2d6 from a Greatsword, of course. What I had been saying earlier about it getting worse, not better with a reroll holds true - the difference is not as substantial because the reroll is better, but inherently less dice variance leads to less impact. GWF already gives you an average of 8.33, almost the same impact as Savage which on its own is 8.37. Both of them boost the average damage by close to 1.4. Combined they average 9.46, which is to say, adding the second of them boosts it by roughly 1.1 damage, 1.13 to be specific if adding Savage attacker to someone using Great Weapon Fighting. That's numerically less of a boost, and fairly significantly less of a percentage boost.

Now, please don't misunderstand - I'm not saying Savage Attacker is trash tier. Adding an extra point of damage or two on average is never a bad thing. The Caustic Ring is *awesome* for adding +2 damage to all attacks. But it's certainly not "S" tier. It will add 1 to 3 damage to each attack on average, with 3 being a pretty generous number and a fairly unobtainable target for it. It's nice though in that it feels good - with both you're getting at least a 7 96% of the time instead of 81% without, so that's 15% of the time you would have gotten less than a 7 but got at least a 7 instead. You double the percentage of time you get a 12- from 5% to 10%. If someone likes it, I'm not at all saying they're wrong for liking it.

The issue I had was with it being described as "S" tier, as a small bonus to damage per hit is never as good as a boost to how often you can hit, outside of very low initial damage figures. Getting a consistent bonus action attack (like from Polearm Master if using that weapon type), or being able to consistently use your reaction to attack (like from Sentinel), or being able to turn a miss into a hit in a desperate situation (like from Lucky) adds 30+ damage to a well built character's damage output. That means that *best case* it's the equivalent of Savage Attacker improving 10 attacks, and it's rarely that good for Savage Attacker. After all, the +3 damage only matters *at all* if it *actively reduces the number of hits or actions needed to kill the target*. In most encounters, you're not actually comparing against 400+ HP bosses where it's a 1:1 comparison. Instead, you're comparing against targets of variable health, and going from 30 to 33 damage doesn't actually impact anything at all if you're attacking a target with 50 health. It's still 2 attacks to take them down regardless.

Now, the increased consistency is nice in that regard, and there's few worse feelings than a target being 2 HP away from death, whether that's in reducing them to 0 or the threshold for triggering Cull the Weak. But the amount of times it'll be the difference maker and provide that critical last 2 HP is exceedingly unlikely to match or surpass the value provided by something like GWM, Sharpshooter, Lucky, Polearm Master, Sentinel, Spell Sniper, or Elemental Adept, to say nothing of Tavern Brawler. So yeah, imho solidly a "B" to "C" tier feat, one where there are certainly builds that will take it, and you're unlikely to regret taking it if you do. But not "S" tier, not even close. Maybe I'll make a post for folks to rank feats, we can see where it lines up in the rankings of others.

I'd dive into 2 but this is already a long post. I agree it's worth diving into, I'm just not prepared to do so at this time.

3 though, I just want to say, we're already assuming 12th level (since if comparing at say 5th level, or 7th level, or basically any point in the game before 11th level the Monk absolutely smokes the Fighter in terms of performance). We're assuming a boss where it never moves and both of them start 0m away from it (since if we were to worry about positioning, the Monk would smoke the performance of the fighter). We're using something with a single health pool so we don't have to worry about the Fighter losing damage to overkill (since it doesn't matter if your attack action does 1 attack or 3 if the enemy has 10hp), and we're using the most effective potion the fighter has access to in that circumstance, something which everyone can have limitless amounts of with a bit of patience and a good Rogue. Is it *the very best case* for the comparison from the Fighter's perspective? No, of course not, and certainly there are times where a Bloodlust potion is better, based on the confluence of circumstances, and there will certainly of course be times where a fighter would outperform a Monk in a given scenario and against a given set of enemies. But imho this is pretty darn close to best case, and *far* more slanted in favor of the Fighter than the Monk. The entire point was and is that Monks are not trash and are not bottom of the barrel in comparison to other Martials, they are in fact likely the strongest of them overall. That doesn't mean Monks > Fighters in all ways and in all circumstances of course, but the circumstances where a Monk outperforms a Fighter are in my opinion substantially more common than the circumstances where a Fighter would outperform a Monk, including but not limited to during boss fights.