Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General The little things...

Well, I doubt that there is any one poem that most of the world has heard of across language barriers, but I think much of the english-speaking world has heard of this poem, particularly the first verse, even if they can't remember the title. It was an inspiration behind numerous popular songs. And "Met a man who wasn't there" is such an oddly specific phrase that I think if someone uses it you can be pretty much 100 percent certain they were referencing the poem.

A quick scan of the credits shows about 20 writers on the project. Chances are almost all of them have literature degrees. It is almost inconceivable that at least one of them didn’t come across this particular poem in their degree programs.

That is pure speculation. These are the same twenty writers who produced a story with more holes than the proverbial Swiss cheese.
These alleged literati cannot differentiate between harpies and sirens.

Harpies luring song ability is from the Dungeons and Dragons Monster Manual.

And if you are honestly suggesting that none of the writers on staff ever heard of this poem and just accidentally quoted it without realizing it, then I don’t know what else to tell you. That’s ridiculous.

Quoting part of one line from a poem with several verses is not knowing the poem; you would not even have to know what the title of the poem was (I didn't) or even if it was a poem (as opposed to say a nursery rhyme). I can quote parts of lines from several different Shakespeare plays but I would never claim to know the plays. Hell, half the time I wouldn't know which play it was or if it was from a play or a poem.

“Oh, what a tangled web we weave...when first we practice to deceive.” Everybody and his dog thinks that is a quote from Shakespeare.


"Harpies luring song ability is from the Dungeons and Dragons Monster Manual." So what? These writers with their literature degrees bow before Dungeons and Dragons Monster Manual rather than Homer? Wouldn't surprise me.

I think at this point you're coming up with some pretty silly objections just to insist that Larian didn't know a commonly quoted line from a well known poem.

I never heard of that poem until now. It definitely has a macabre "Mother Goose" feel to it which is very cool, which is appropriate for a Canadian ghost story, eh?

This reminds me of one little thing in BG3 that I found amusing ... the name of the raven summoned with the Find Familiar spell is "Quothe". Quothe the raven. I suppose this could be a connection to a world famous poem, but if any Larian writer has ever once posted here, they post here nevermore.

Quoth the raven is also a character in the wonderful Discworld novels and Terry Pratchett spelled the name correctly which is more than can be said for Larian.

As a former teacher of the language arts, I am obliged, on Lenore's behalf, to award you a gold star for this post.

Not sure how a thread on little annoyances descended into a back and forth on other people's potential knowledge or lack thereof of poetry? Seems like people got a little annoyed.

Speaking of little annoyances... I cannot stand when you turn in a quest, get the "this quest is turned in" dialogue from the quest giver and collect the reward, and yet the map marker stays on the map, and the quest doesn't show as complete in the journal. Sure, you can just ignore it, knowing that you're actually done with the quest, but it's minorly annoying,which is, after all, what this thread about.

Nobody at Larian claimed to know the poem. I claimed that in a room full of 20 people with literature degrees, chance are very high that one of them came across this very famous poem in their studies, especially since the poem is referenced in the game. That is a very reasonable assumption to make.


Ugh, yes, obviously. It’s a D&D game… why are you like this? Who hurt you?

I’m pretty sure this just meant that the rothe, who has no precise concept of time, lived to be older than his mother and grandmother when they died.

I forget what the Rothe said exactly, but I do remember being confused by the phrasing myself. I thought they were implying that the Rothe was weirdly immortal. I remember going through that area being like "Where can I find out the story behind the immortal rothe?"

I don't know that poem nor do I care.

Barcus at the Last Light Inn.

First, I'm not sure how he got there before me, but okay.

Then, I reaffirm to him that I am, indeed, going to try to save Wulbren.

After that, and this is my issue, my dialogue options all seem wrong. These are the options:


I'm not choosing 1 because I've already agreed to take on the mission of saving Wulbren.

I don't want to choose 2 because I know how the gnomes ended up captured. I was in Grymforge and heard all about it.

I don't want to pick 3 because I don't have anything more important to do.

And 4 isn't something I'd say because I know who Wulbren is, and if it's meant to be humorous, it just doesn't fit the moment.

Oh my goodness! Thank you for the reminder. I cannot count the number of times that I absolutely hate all of the dialogue choices I'm given. If I had a gold piece for the number of times I've looked at all my dialogue choices and thought, "my character wouldn't say any of those!" I'd have a hefty purse. That's not unique to BG3 though. The number of times I've encountered a dialogue choice in any RPG that has scripted conversation and thought, "that's pretty darn close to what my character would say," is less than a handful, for sure.

On that note, sometimes a dialogue choice seems viable, but with a completely different motivation. Case in point: the conversation with Minthara. After listening to her, one of my possible choices was: "I'm pretty persuasive, let me talk to the Druid." I chose that thinking that my character would say that as a ruse, just to let Minthara think I was on her side, but then to actually get close to Halsin and set him free. That subtlety is obviously not built into the conversation mechanics. I knew it right away when I saw the nice big: "Karlach disapproves" message flash on the screen. Obviously, from the game's perspective, picking that choice means my character is actually planning to work with Minthara. So sometimes even when a choice seems like something your character might say, the actual reason they'd say it isn't correctly built into the mechanics of the conversation. All of which, once again, just adds to the list of reasons that playing D&D with people will always be better than playing it with a computer.

Did I say somebody at Larian claimed to know the poem? You were the one who brought up the imaginary literature degrees of the Larian writers. Speaking of which - The hole Ketheric Thorm jumps down in Moonrise: "The hole yawns back at you". No it doesn't. Not even gaps yawn back at you.

I didn't insist anything. I doubted they had, then someone claimed it was one of the most famous poems in the world, then someone claimed that "almost all" of the writers at Larian "probably" had degrees in literature. I don't care if all the writers at Larian have PhDs - I don't think the writing in BG3 is anything but average at best. Same with the graphics and same with the voice acting. The music is below average IMO.

Yet another poorly written set of dialogue choices. The whole thing bemused me, including the way Wulbren treats you, with no explanation why, and his attitude towards Barcus, with no explanation why. Is there further action on this in Act 3?


I'm currently chewing my way through the saga of the fights against Ketherick Thorm. At Moonrise Jaheira gives a speech about Nightsong blazing a path and what she will do to Thorm when she gets to him. The next time you see Nightsong she does okay in Round 1. In Round 2 she is a captive again.

Only found out yesterday that One-Becomes-Many (the rat guy) in the Gauntlet is tied in to the Yurgir-Raphael contract.

Wulbren has abandonment issues. Both of them never explain why the relationship become the way it is.

But the only clue you can find is on a diary on abandoned camp on Underdark beach in which says basically Wulbren wondering if he ever see Barcus ever again after he moved to the surface.

In my mind, I think Wulbren feel abandoned, and later grow resentful towards Barcus.

OR, if the diary wrote by current Day Wulbren, it just means that Wulbren actually cares about Barcus but try to prevent him for joining his radical movement by being an a-hole. Which to me also make sense.

Just to mention, the line in the game isn't "I met a man who wasn't there."

The line is, "I met a man who wasn't a man."

Here is the quote from the mason's log book:


This is, I believe, a reference to Raphael. The stonemason made a pact with Raphael for help. That's why Ketheric was defeated a hundred years ago. That's why Grymforge became what it is. Yurgir and his army of merrigons invaded. Yurgir had a quest to get rid of every last justiciar. Of course, Raphael also made a deal with the last justiciar, splitting him into numerous rats so that Yurgir would be forever stuck trying to finish his task.

Gender fluid then?