Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion Values and romance disconnect - better polygamy(spoilers)

BG3 is supposed to have this very evolved form of romances. There is put a lot of effort into to marketing this. Most are healthy ideals; support them in their goals, be respectful when challenging their beliefs, respect their agency.
But then when you reach act three for some characters that no longer matters. Some of this is thrown completely out the window.

Halsin and Shadowheart are suddenly lusting for each other, though in the act before they were bickering like a father and child. The disconnect here was jarring!

Halsin and Astarion is just as baffling. They have absolutely no common values - and druids dislike vampires.

Halsin is supposed to be the symbol of ultimate personal choice, agency and freedom, but actually is rigid ultimatum of "We do not discuss this. I am telling you this and you accept, though I have been emotionally encouraging you for two whole acts."

Shadowheart goes from "I don't want just part of you" to "I want to share you with world".

Astarion goes from breaking up with you if you "use him physically" to being (and I am sorry) coerced into suddenly accepting you being with Halsin also.

Now, my question is:

What happened to Shadowheart and Astarion, and the hints of that slowly being a thing in EA? Why was that not implemented as a healthy polycule instead? Shadowheart says "He needs you more". Can I ask why Halsin doesn't have this mental awareness for as wise as he is supposed to be?

Shadowheart and Astarion often have shared values, and being with you from beginning that could have blossomed into something healthy and secure.
Instead: "So you want to be with Halsin because I'm trying to get comfortable with physical touch again?" WTF?

Another option for it: Karlach and Halsin as being Tav's polycule. They have shared values, they have some funny banter in act 2 and are in a different place than the others.

Add two camp followers as extra options, and you have more diversity. (A non-binary would be nice).

I don't understand these choices at all. Representation was just there, and it was lovely. So what the hell happened?

What is even more baffling about all of this is that you had this entire Twitter X campaign about "Players being punished for objectifying Astarion". Yes, alright... Where was this piece of "awareness" during the process of writing this and especially Halsin?

Can't say much more than I agree 100%. Well said.

Thanks. Karlach and Shadowheart would also make sense.

Nah I think companions shouldn’t shack up automatically, feels too much like a fire emblem thing and goes nowhere

100% agree, a lot of decisions made by the writes are mind-boggling. Both romance endings (Astarion ending) are unsatisfying, unexplained, unfinished. Companions relationship that sprout from seemingly nowhere are even more awkward.

The piece of awareness when it came to “objectifying Astarion” I believe was your decision to ascend him and become his vampire spawn. If I am translating an old Discord message correctly? (I am unsure if it is an actual Larian writer or not, someone sent me it claiming that it is) The large greyed area was someone’s response that I hid.


I did not even know Astarion could still interact in the drow prostitute scene if he breaks up with you. I wonder if that’s a bug or something since I always thought you had to be in active relationships to have a character accompany you, save Halsin.


I had no clue that there was even a lesson to be learned if you “objectify Halsin” seems like he wants to have sex with everything and is putting himself out like an object.

When/if I ascend him a 1 minute long cutscene in the end is certainly NOT the decision making reason. Whoever this writer is she should NOT assume that we all have the same reasons. It certainly speaks volume for her would be reasoning to ascend him, i guess.

This whole drama with "good"/"bad" ending is overblown. Astarion has NO good ending as of right now. Things are very vague in this state of the game, nothing is explained as to what is going to happen to them (Tav/Astarion).

If he stays a spawn and you're an elf than you've got around 700 year to stick together, if you're a human for example then in 40 years you're old and in 50-60 you're dead. And where does it leave him? Alone in the shadows and with a never ending hunger for blood. Well, does that sound like a happy ending for him? There has to be a HOPE in the so called "good" ending to have him cured of vampirism. A wish spell/ spell of true resurrection, or a Gale if he was ascended to a Godhood. Otherwise it's all down hill for him after Tav is gone.

And I don't even want to get in to the ascended Astarion debate until there is an OFFICIAL stand from WOTC about what the ascension actually means and does to a vampire.
As of right now there is NEVER been an ascended vampire, the ritual has NEVER been performed before. There is no lore on the ascension just a lot of speculations. All we have right now to go by are Raphael's words that the ritual will make him a Living Vampire with all the desires and arousals of men. So basically a "super-man" . The arguing will never end until either WOTC or Larian define what the ascending means for a vampire.

Romancing in this game is naught but marketing to attract those interested in internet porn.

It's silly at best.

Serves no purpose.

I wouldn't go that far. It just lacks narrative, complimentary depth to a large degree. SH, Astarion and Karlach all had the potential to have it, mind you. The opportunity was just largely squandered. If Bg3 in some state was a masterful spider's web, you can see where a mischievous bird stuck its beak in and tangled if not ripped half the strings.

Stories such as these are meaningless without impactful choice. Not that "doomed to fail" tragic narratives couldn't have worked, but I don't think they can in *this* sort of game. The tone is too light. The narrative too loose. The ending fails to be heartwrenching in some way. There is no theme of loss as a steady companion.

It tends to be quite good until act 3. Then it takes a massive nosedive with inconsistencies, lack of romance specific options/dialogue and an unsatisfying ending.

Ha :), there is not much of it either at least not in spawn Astarion route, I don't know about other companions. You'd think the way they were spinning it during the Panel from Hell, you'd have more then a measly 30 seconds of two people (one shirtless other fully clothed ) standing and talking and then kissing.

Anyways, it is not the point, the point is they couldn't finish the romance with a satisfying closure. But suddenly came up with a whole lot of intertwined companion romances... Like, when in the world did all of this happen, where was my Tav, how is it that she camps with these people and have not a slightest idea as to what is happening in her camp.

Yes. Though I will say that Astarion's is the best and Gale's is also decent. I choose to believe that the loose ends are being tied up in a DLC.

But they just seemed to make a last minute rush job and force as much kink in as possible - mostly in Halsin who goes from wholesome to desperate midlife crisis on Grinder.

Either that or we got the "Cyberpunk 2077 treatment". In which we got a half-cooked product, where the 1rst act is nicely polished (to hook you) and then everything starts to lose quality the longer you play. At least it feels that way.

But talking specifically about romance, how can SH (which is arguably the "main character" of the game) can have the possibility of behave so differently that can change the player's perspective of her?, The same can be said of Halsin (for what I've read), he does a 180 in act 3, without any type of foreshadow. I don't know about Astarion but it seems he's badly influenced by "the Halsin effect".

So it's almost clear that they used romance as a marketing campaign more than anything. I played a bit EA (not that much, I like to play finished games) and had forgotten about the game. Then released date was close and suddenly you could find Astarion and Halsin doing the bear scene everywhere on the internet.

And I hope they fix all this (eventually) on the base game, wouldn't want to be surprised with a DE, that solves all of this situations but you have to pay for the game again...

No, the Definitive edition is usually free for those who have already purchased the game (it was with DOS2). Otherwise, you're right. And I really hope they fix it and address. Sucks we have to wait a year.

Let's hope that stays that way (when I bought DOS2 was already the DE).

Hopefully they released the mod tools sooner rather than later. That way at least, modders can really start making good mods.

Yes, that would be so nice.

It's just sad that they had all this opportunity to do great things and all this feedback and then missed the mark.

Makes you wonder if the data collection got messed up.

There is so many people furious there is romance at all in the game, but let me remind you that romance is only a facet of the whole story. There is a lack of games where you can find balanced amounts of battle, politics AND romance. Some of us crave that - I certainly do. I get bored of games only focusing on battle and that have shallow writing on romance or bonding, but I also have no interest in "dating sims" because only romance is boring too.

About the polycule thing, I have more to say about Karlach since I played with her as a partner and as herself. She gets a bit confusing, because she will say for tav to go ahead and sleep with people while you can't do it with her, but then she will break up with you if you sleep with someone else later. I understand its a thing of she not wanting tav to miss on anything on her account, but there is no "transition" dialogue, no relationship discussion that clearly states now she wants you to be exclusive.

And I think she and Halsin would be a terrible idea. I see Karlach x Astarion (x tav) as a much more feasible polycule, but even then, I have concerns over Astarion himself. I find it weird he considers accepting Halsin into the relationship with tav AT ALL. I'd expect him to take it slow, and one at a time, at least for a longer while after all he's been (is going) through.

If you romance him, and after Cazador (with him as a spawn in my case), go back to the Drow twins and sleep with them, Astarion will say something like "yes, now that I'm free to figure out what I'm into. I'll run away from the room if I don't like it" or something. Then he proceeds to dissociate himself during the act nonetheless. He has no further dialogue to develop what was it happened to him afterwards (I think you might get that if you are NOT in a relationship with him?).

That is to say, I find it weird putting Astarion as just fine with a poly dynamic so soon after he is 'finding himself'. Especially because the way he laughs when you mention Halsin is into you comes across as kinda bitter. But then, there's the purposeful ambiguity there too, to allow us to headcanon a bit - which is really nice.

I can't speak for the other romances, but in my playthrough I thought the Astarion and Halsin thing was handled well? With Halsin as a side thing, anyway. I haven't had any threesomes (?)

I guess as a sex-repulsed ace myself (admittedly incomparable to the reasons Astarion is) it just made sense to me that Astarion would want for clarification about why Tav was interested in Halsin to set his mind and heart at ease but otherwise be fine with it, with my Tav continuing to shower Astarion with all the love he needed and more through the rest of the game.

Like the most surprising part for me was that Astarion *actually* reacted how I thought he might? I don't expect writing to hit so close for me, especially with how cheap video game romance usually feels.
I donno what I *was* expecting but it wasn't something I could relate to, anyway. I had been planning to just re-load after seeing a quick Halsin scene, but Astarion's reaction made so much sense that I decided to keep it.

That said, I haven't pressured Astarion into sex after romance (though I did end that run in Ascended because that run was ultimately decidedly non-canon for other reasons anyway), but I'm also saving the Spawn ending for my resist Urge run, so I don't know what other scenarios there are yet. I just know that when I approached him about Tav spending some physical time with Halsin that Astarion's reaction Made Sense to me.

(Also spoiled myself reading this thread a bit, but very glad to hear he breaks up with you if you push him for sex)

These decisions seem spot on to me.

The above about the drow encounter doesn't sound like it makes sense though.

Oh, Astarion is written really really well and his reaction is definitely believable.
To me it's just in really bad taste to engage in polygamy, when Astarion is already so vulnerable and uncertain. But if you Ascend him then your Astarion is also nearly stripped of emotions, so I can see that working... sort of.

He and Halsin would be an awful match, which was my point. It's not about compatibility at all.

In fact, this thread seems to prove that poly can work - with anyone but Halsin really - which is truly ironic.

(I am not against Halsin being poly, but I don't think the poly options make sense for anything other than to scratch an itch - which probably bothers me more because I am demi.)

I almost feel like it would be scary to try it after he Ascends, especially since he gets his drive back and becomes so possessive. It became nerve-wracking to approach him about anything - which was the point and really well done. I had the Halsin convo long before Cazador though so idk.

I do think Astarion and Halsin would be a terrible match *together*, but they weren't matched in mine so I didn't experience anything that felt off in my play. It was Tav with each of them separately and Astarion wasn't coerced into doing anything uncomfortable so if there's conditions that would put them together that's kinda Bad Choice territory and isn't something I'd do in my playthroughs except out of curiosity and a quick disgusted reload.

I wouldn't begrudge it being an option, but if they're acting out of character to accommodate that kind of choice without any repercussions or consequences I can see how that's an issue.

I guess more simply, my thoughts are:
Astarion and Halsin sharing Tav: Makes sense to me for everyone involved, no notes.
An Astarion/Halsin/Tav threesome: That'd be some serious mental gymnastics at any juncture.