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Banned
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Banned
Joined: Sep 2023
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That's cool, but still doesn't say much, unless GDC has some particular meaning
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Sep 2023
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The point here being, forums seem pretty abandoned in terms of what the devs actually see and hear. Or that's the feeling anyway. So kindly, respectfully, commenting about an act 3 post with the problem we all share in this thread (Karlach, choices, endings) is one way to reach to the Big Man of the operation. It's about making our feedback heard and this was the perfect opportunity to mention it.
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Sep 2023
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The point here being, forums seem pretty abandoned in terms of what the devs actually see and hear. Or that's the feeling anyway. So kindly, respectfully, commenting about an act 3 post with the problem we all share in this thread (Karlach, choices, endings) is one way to reach to the Big Man of the operation. It's about making our feedback heard and this was the perfect opportunity to mention it. Damn, now i wish i had a twitter account! Although i don't feel the character limit (it has one, right?) would allow me to type everything i wanted in response to a single tweet ahah
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2023
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I do not have twitter but is there a way some one or several ppl can make a tweet response with THIS thread copy/pasted into it? So it directs attention to the forum and not just thr forum members going to twitter?
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Sep 2023
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Well I tweeted him, if only to add my shameless begging to the pile. Hope he sees it
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Sep 2023
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I do not have twitter but is there a way some one or several ppl can make a tweet response with THIS thread copy/pasted into it? So it directs attention to the forum and not just thr forum members going to twitter? now that sounds like a good idea tbh
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Sep 2023
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gods, only Karlach to make me re-log into twitter after it turned X lol
Done.
Rawr.
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member
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member
Joined: Sep 2023
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That's cool, but still doesn't say much, unless GDC has some particular meaning The Game Developers Conference is a meeting of developers to discuss the gaming industry. It's run by game devs for game devs.
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Banned
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Banned
Joined: Sep 2023
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So it's march next year and specifically for other game devs, nothing worth our time. Only means they won't work on act 3 anytime soon if at all
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member
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member
Joined: Sep 2023
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How did you come to that conclusion? lol
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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: Sep 2023
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I just don't get why they would: 1) put in the part where a Steel Watcher tells Karlach, to her face, in plain English, that her engine is broken because it's a prototype version of their engine;
2) let the player go to the Steel Watch Foundry and kill all the Banites and Watchers in there and free the Gondians; and then
3) not let you fix her engine.
Why even put that stuff in? Especially because #1 actually doesn't make sense, so I don't know why you would do it except to set up the outcome where you solve a seemingly insoluble problem. Here's what I mean: you have Gortash sending Karlach to Avernus, where Zariel gets to try out her brand-new prototype engine in Karlach's chest, but the thing it's a prototype for isn't going to ever be in Avernus, it's going to be in Baldur's Gate. So who made what for whom, and what did each of them get out of the deal? Did Gortash build the prototype and give it to Zariel in the deal? If so, what's he getting in exchange for both a powerful new weapon and his bodyguard? Did Zariel build the prototype? If so, why is she trading away a powerful new weapon for a single Tiefling (and not even her eternal soul, just a warm body for the Blood War)? And why did she never improve upon the design herself? Nothing in Karlach's dialogue implies that her engine is considered an early model in Avernus--if anything, the implication is that it's the standard and up-to-date model by Avernal standards, since early on she suggests that she could go to any mechanic in the hells and get a tune-up.
The whole thing makes no sense! ...except that it works as a way of setting up a good ending for Karlach. You really wouldn't think any responsible professional writer of fiction would include a plot element so knotty and nonsensical which adds nothing to the plot (there are any number of things Gortash could have traded Karlach in exchange for), acts as a big honking red herring pointing toward a specific desirable outcome so everyone will notice it and think about it, occurs in an unmissable dialogue cinematic so long as Karlach is in your party, and is never paid off. You are literally told, in explicit terms, that a version of Karlach's engine which works outside of Avernus exists, that the Gondians made it, and that the factory where it was made is right here in town. And then you can go to that factory. And you can liberate the Gondians. The only possible reason I can think of to do that would be to make me, specifically, go insane. In which case, well done, no notes, I'm losing my mind.
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Banned
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Banned
Joined: Sep 2023
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By using google for example. GDC was already this year and the next one is at the end of march 2024, plus it's game devs for game devs, which means you don't advertise things here, unless I don't know, maybe they'll want to hire some freelancers while they move onto thw new project
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Sep 2023
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It doesn't have to showcase anything new. They may as well talk about the development of this MASSIVE game we're discussing. How they made all these (other) choices work and how it waa implemented, programmed etc. How to make such huge maps with tons of NPCs work. How to even tackle such a huge project, really. It's also to teach and inspire other devs when your project did something big, new or really good.
As to the posts above re: why would they implement the infernal forge and steel watch and not let us learn/take anything from it, Larian sure as hell should be paying for my madness therapy too!
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Banned
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Banned
Joined: Sep 2023
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Because their writing team was either screwed big time with the cut content and for some reason couldn't add one fetch quest before launch or in one of the 3 patches released already or they are worse than edgy 12 year old that just discovered wattpadd and wants to shock the world with sad story they invented
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member
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member
Joined: Sep 2023
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By using google for example. GDC was already this year and the next one is at the end of march 2024, plus it's game devs for game devs, which means you don't advertise things here, unless I don't know, maybe they'll want to hire some freelancers while they move onto thw new project Regarding the timeline, any possible definitive edition will come out in August next year at the earliest, but more likely in late 2024 / early 2025. As for the event itself, they discuss their work process and I'm sure people there will be asking them about their handling of different aspects of the game. Swen himself thinks Act 3 will be the main topic. Patch 2 will likely be brought up in terms of how fast it came out and how Larian managed to do it on such short notice. That being said, nobody here expects updates about the game there. So I again don't know how you came to the conclusion that they won't be working on the game anytime soon or at all just because they're attending the conference.
Last edited by Walking Kole; 27/09/23 08:02 AM.
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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: Sep 2023
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Because their writing team was either screwed big time with the cut content and for some reason couldn't add one fetch quest before launch or in one of the 3 patches released already or they are worse than edgy 12 year old that just discovered wattpadd and wants to shock the world with sad story they invented But the thing is, even that doesn't make sense as an explanation, because if you just want to tell a sad story you don't say "by the way there's a very obvious solution to the thing making you sad, but you just don't take it." I can somewhat understand if it's the other option, because the solution I'm talking about would necessarily involve a decent amount of reactivity. You'd have to have reached a certain stage in Karlach's personal quest, it's locking you into attacking the forge, it has to react to your choice between the Gondians and the Ironhands, etc., plus you have to figure out if you're going to give Karlach another way to find out about this option if she wasn't in your party for that cutscene. So I get it if implementing it was too much to do at the last minute. But then you have to take out the interaction that hints at it! Same thing with , why are you even bothering to leave that nothing quest in the game if you don't have time to finish it? I don't think I've ever seen a quest that involved less player agency than that. You literally cannot do anything to substantively resolve that situation. The most you can do is find a piece of paper. It doesn't matter if you or not, she escapes either way. So not only is it perhaps the worst quest in the history of games, but just like with the Karlach problem, it introduces an unnecessary and distracting inconsistency. In this case, the question is why this little kid can just waltz out of selling her immortal soul to a devil , but somehow Hope, a grown woman who didn't even sign a contract with Ralph, was utterly helpless. Like how are you gonna cut content like some of the stuff they cut, but then leave in bizarre things like this?
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Sep 2023
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Like how are you gonna cut content like some of the stuff they cut, but then leave in bizarre things like this? I think with a game this huge in scope, some things are bound to slip through the cracks. Unfortunately that also means that players and reviewers are apt to miss some of the less-shiny parts of the game before leaving glowing reviews.
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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: Sep 2023
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I found in the datamined dialogues an interesting conversation you can have with jaheira after the gortash confrontation scene (and by interesting i mean depressing lol) [img] https://imgur.com/f3AJgwb[/img] Its kinda disheartening that not only does jaheira also feed us the ''we did everything we could'' bullshit but the devnotes reinforce this, some devnote examples being ''jaheira listing all of the things karlach deserves but wont get. All our good intentions wont help karlach and lying about it to ourselves wont help'' and ''returning to avernus would save karlach but would also return her to slavery. [jaheira] respects what karlach wants''. The one that really got me boiling was the devnote saying ''stop looking for a point in this, its just shitty and unfair'' lmao, way to shut down players for wanting to find a solution in a crpg game where other companions (see, gale) get miracle fixes. In general the doomer-like tone of ''we cant do anything for her sorry'' here is pretty infuriating. Also the line about returning to avernus makes the patch 2 avernus ending more confusing, like why make it look so badass and empowering if for the entirety of the game its made clear karlach 1) doesnt wanna go back and 2) returning to avernus equals going back to slavery? This is all such a inconsistent mess. (This conversation can be found in Dialogs/Companions/Jaheira_InParty_Nested_TopicalGreetings.html, if anyone else wants to read it and check the devnotes)
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member
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member
Joined: Aug 2023
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I found in the datamined dialogues an interesting conversation you can have with jaheira after the gortash confrontation scene (and by interesting i mean depressing lol) [img] https://imgur.com/f3AJgwb[/img] Its kinda disheartening that not only does jaheira also feed us the ''we did everything we could'' bullshit but the devnotes reinforce this, some devnote examples being ''jaheira listing all of the things karlach deserves but wont get. All our good intentions wont help karlach and lying about it to ourselves wont help'' and ''returning to avernus would save karlach but would also return her to slavery. [jaheira] respects what karlach wants''. The one that really got me boiling was the devnote saying ''stop looking for a point in this, its just shitty and unfair'' lmao, way to shut down players for wanting to find a solution in a crpg game where other companions (see, gale) get miracle fixes. In general the doomer-like tone of ''we cant do anything for her sorry'' here is pretty infuriating. Also the line about returning to avernus makes the patch 2 avernus ending more confusing, like why make it look so badass and empowering if for the entirety of the game its made clear karlach 1) doesnt wanna go back and 2) returning to avernus equals going back to slavery? This is all such a inconsistent mess. (This conversation can be found in Dialogs/Companions/Jaheira_InParty_Nested_TopicalGreetings.html, if anyone else wants to read it and check the devnotes) If I'm correct, I had this conversation with Jaheira in camp before patch2.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Sep 2023
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I found in the datamined dialogues an interesting conversation you can have with jaheira after the gortash confrontation scene (and by interesting i mean depressing lol) [img] https://imgur.com/f3AJgwb[/img] Its kinda disheartening that not only does jaheira also feed us the ''we did everything we could'' bullshit but the devnotes reinforce this, some devnote examples being ''jaheira listing all of the things karlach deserves but wont get. All our good intentions wont help karlach and lying about it to ourselves wont help'' and ''returning to avernus would save karlach but would also return her to slavery. [jaheira] respects what karlach wants''. The one that really got me boiling was the devnote saying ''stop looking for a point in this, its just shitty and unfair'' lmao, way to shut down players for wanting to find a solution in a crpg game where other companions (see, gale) get miracle fixes. In general the doomer-like tone of ''we cant do anything for her sorry'' here is pretty infuriating. Also the line about returning to avernus makes the patch 2 avernus ending more confusing, like why make it look so badass and empowering if for the entirety of the game its made clear karlach 1) doesnt wanna go back and 2) returning to avernus equals going back to slavery? This is all such a inconsistent mess. (This conversation can be found in Dialogs/Companions/Jaheira_InParty_Nested_TopicalGreetings.html, if anyone else wants to read it and check the devnotes) Who are these devnotes intended to be read by? Feels like a really weird lack of awareness there.
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