Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion Halsin Romance, Expectations and Obligatory Poly

Agreed, you just summed up everything I feel that I couldn't in a few sentences I saw there's some people on reddit who thought of the same with her too. Also there's no discussion at all Halsin about the "romance" and like you mentioned earlier, you only have two options yay or nay, end of "discussion". But I'm just being redundant at this point.

I actually started one and got shot down hard - and got downvotes for my trauma. I guess I am unrelateable?

A little too positive take, lacking a lot of the reasons why he is lacking, bit a step in the right direction: https://screenrant.com/baldurs-gate-3-pros-cons-romancing-halsin-bg3/

I like that he's not just a simple fanservice product, but a fully realized character with his own desires and I hope Larian does not change him to be playersexual, but retains his polysexuality as-written.

I wish I could be more surprised that this discussion of what is or isn't toxic poly rep is repeatedly being made about people with monogamous player character headcanons demanding that the one free love guy in the game be open to mono/poly. Such a familiar conversation happening every day in this world where the majority of mono people want the smaller population of poly people to compromise and accept an uneven arrangement. And in real person relationships, in the actual world, sometimes a mono person falls in love with a poly person and vice versa, and that bond does result in an uneven arrangement, where one person is single-heartedly devoted and the other sluts it out, forms other bonds, does their thing like the mono/poly request for Halsin being proposed here. Plenty of real life people do mono/poly and some manage it longterm. So, it's not unimaginable that Halsin could do it, and I imagine I'll get to read lots of awesome fanfic about it in the years to come -- but it's also, to me, not a compelling storyline for this character in canon.

In my fantasy video game, I'm happy to leave behind the negotiations and discussions about envy, anxiety, longterm plans about cohabitation and babies for the mono person to meet their life goals, the poly person having or hiding hookups in front of the mono person or asking the mono person permission to have sex with new people (like Halsin has the player character do in the swinging scenarios). It's a poly fantasy with Halsin, and the whole thing of mono/poly, isn't represented. I'm okay with mono player characters already having the majority of romances in the game catered to that RP choice.

It's wild that this interpretation of fluid is being used to say that he needs to compromise his romantic values to live up to his role as a fanservice product adequately. That is not what fluid means.

I respect Halsin as someone's OC because all NPCs are someone's OCs, that's how writing works lol. He was written to be a certain kind of guy. I love this guy, I know this guy. This guy is cruising in the park. This guy is in the bathhouse. He is in the club bathroom, he is 200 ft away lol I love this dude. Sometimes in actual life, it's true that people who are suffering acute trauma cruise to cope, but Halsin does not choose that, he holds off on being lovers until after his acute trauma quest is resolved. I hope the story doesn't feel the need to craft a reason for him to be poly, since mono characters are never called on to justify their monogamy as a trauma response. There is no one reason traceable to trauma that people are free love sluts; sex feels good. With his background, people can make headcanons, and that's enough. Sometimes addressing trauma leads to a person disengaging from risky/nontraditional sex, sometimes addressing trauma and healing leads to no change in sex-seeking behavior. And fetishizing past trauma in safe and consenting kink scenes is perfectly healthy, and can be fun and healing, although I understand the request from players for more aftercare. He's an old bi free love bear and I think he's neat.

The guy says a bunch of times he is going to need player character to be alike to him for the two of you to be meant to be. He's written to say, I don't treat my relationships like a walled garden, others do and it's not for me. He says, monogamous? That's not for me. He says: that's not for me and I don't want it. When your player character is monogamous, he says, that life is not for me, it's not my life. He doesn't want to share in that walled garden life. It's not a proposition that appeals.

And so, we RP as a Tav, Durge, or origin character who says, "our hearts are free, I agree." We're RPing someone he would want. Or RPing a character who respects what he says and answers, oh yeah that's not my speed at all and this isn't meant to be, and for players who pick that I really hope we get more content for his friendship track.

This is what is not toxic: Halsinmance is an on/off switch with no mono/poly track.

This poly romance isn't bending over backwards to represent mono/poly romances. I hope no dev time is put into mono/poly Halsinmance going forward. I wouldn't be surprised if a Halsin ending was activated in a later patch where we go with him, I wouldn't be surprised if mono people get the rep being asked for in this and other threads, especially when such intense wording is being thrown around (toxic, manipulative, references to real abusers Weinstein and Kelly who tortured their victims), especially when we live in a world that is catered in every way, legally and culturally, to mono people. I wouldn't be surprised at all, I'll be interested to see how it's handled. How would he answer the mono/poly proposition? If we get any more dev time for him, and if his dev time gets set to this task of repping mono people even more, I hope it at least gives us more voiced lines.

I would like his dev time to go towards more voiced lines with the origin characters, especially Astarion (like, he is a Druid, does he have healing to impart to the guy in the party who was so recently a prisoner?), in over-world dialogue.

I am a fan of playersexuality in general. It provides the most content for all when there is a limited amount of content. I think Halsin should be playersexual, too, in regards to mono/poly. It goes with Larian’s general design choices for romances.

I am only talking about having options available to play in the game and not anything about real life.

The only reason I was sort of hoping that his toxic nature was unintentional was because of how different he is in ACT 1-2. I really don't think there's enough hints in the early game that he's really this type of person. Who he ends up being in ACT 3 isn't the man we met and got to know. And I'd like to be warned early on what I'm getting myself into. Like, don't give me a nice guy that just pretends to be nice to snare me and who hides the fact that he's a massive creep and won't care what I want at all. Show me from the beginning that he's a creep if that's who he is, at least then I'll know what to expect.

I just don't like to be tricked like this.

I don't think some players, at least for me, are necessarily trying to mold their characters into what romanceable characters want. If that was the case, I don't see where the fun can be if players weren't given these options to do whatever players want with certain characters, or at least react/exchange dialogue however they want.

It's great that you got the representation you wanted.

I repeat: it's a poor business strategy to choose such a limited and very self-focused ideals for a character that was specifically requested on the basis of things like permanence and loyalty.

But again, I am glad you're happy and got exactly what you wanted.

However, these repeated monologues also demonstrate what it is that people are complaining about with Halsin: The inability to accurately sympathise with the emotions of others and support their independent needs and wishes, even when they do not align with one's own priorities.

It negates the emotions of others and their involvement, concentrating only on one's own desires with very little interest for those of others.

Halsin is a very kind and warm person, who demonstrates a live style that is entirely absorbed in his own wishes and desires before those of others. He has no interest in Tavs wishes or desires and actively ignores the impact his behaviour has on Tav or others in this specific area.

It could be that I am entirely wrong about RA, but from my personal experience there is a great deal of consent, respect and emotional depth to this form of life style for it to not be toxic.

I also recent the implication that my prefered relationships style is assumed based on calling out toxic behaviour. I have been involved with the poly community for years, and have seen poor and healthy versions of it.

And like other people here who are sex positive and in the poly community, they find Halsin a deeply toxic interpretation.

No one is saying that Halsin is not entitled to his feelings or his views, but they are saying that to be a satisfying and healthy representation he needs to respect consent, boundaries and compromise.

That is how healthy relations are built and nourished in any type of relationship - permanent or not, romantic or platonic. And these are qualities that are severely lacking.

Also, your views and interpretations are of course as valid as anyone else's, and I am willing to believe that was the intent. But had this been good writing, representation and shown in a sympathetic manner that actually she'd a positive light on this minority, then we would not be having this long of a discussion.

As for sex, I have not seen a single person her say that being sexual was a problem. Making light of sexual trauma is a problem - and while you are entitled to your opinion, ther is also a reason why Halsin is triggering SA left and right, when even Astarion doesn't, and that people who work in the field of SA are asking for a rewrite because it sets a dangerous precedent.

It is lovely that you have a life style that appeals to no commitment or emotional responsibility to others before your own (at least that is how I interpret what you are writing, as it is never addressed how his behaviour actual impacts others than himself. I apologise if this is incorrect).


Description of poly/RA abuse:

" If your partner brings up the option of non-monogamy as a demand or stipulation for the relationship to continue, then that’s cause for concern. Your partner should never make you feel like you must bend over backwards to fulfill their desires, especially if it is something you aren’t comfortable with."

This is exactly what Halsin does.

But you loose absolutely nothing from Halsin to be more fluid in his approach:

Relationship fluidity:
"For some couples, being fluid simply means that they’re willing to try new things from time to time; for others, it may mean that their relationship is constantly evolving and changing.

Ultimately, the level of fluidity in a relationship is up to the individual partners to decide."

Note the last part. That is the one that requires a conversation and means exactly that a fluid relationship is on of discussion, compromise and agreed on terms.

This is NOT a yes or no conversation.

Halsin's definition what this means at present is extraordinarily frigid and inflexible for a man, who claims to be understanding, respectful and seeking balance.

A rigid ultimatum of "this is how this will be, no discussion" is anything but finding balance.

This is why this very extreme form of polygamy and relationship fluid does not fit his character.

Fair, I get the feeling of it not being ideal. I am used to molding my characters since my poly OCs take on mono characterization in the game to be with romances I want to check out, romances that don't support options to create poly arrangements reflecting my interests and wholly reflective of the character's desire, like Gale and Wyll. I also make new, mono characters to mold to those characters that aren't open to poly. I think often of scenarios outside of the game to explore reactions unavailable in dialogue. I'm able to still find fun, although I recognize the hardship.

I understand you're a great example of poly. Fortunately, there are no such people among my acquaintances. You don't care about other people's feelings. Judging by your text, you like that others are suffering. For some reason, people who are completely unfamiliar to you should accept your views, while you are not going to understand them.
Thanks for telling me about the poly ppl selfish and narcissistic, avoiding responsibility.

This character that you describe is fully understandable why you prefer them as they are. They may not represent my own views on relationships, but I could roleplay a Tav that does agree with this approach.

There is just one big caveat. When this character approaches Tav and invites them to participate in their free love and Tav rejects them, he says that he respects their decision and will not pursue it further. Yet, he continues and tries again. So he is dishonest about his intentions and this falls within manipulative and toxic behaviour. Why should he get a free pass to disregard consent because he has a different view on sex and relationships? It doesn't matter if you are poly, mono, gay or straight, when someone expresses that they do not consent, you do not get to keep pressuring them. That's not society being catered to a certain lifestyle, all lifestyles need to respect consent and boundaries.

Surely you don't want rape culture to be associated with the lifestyle, I don't want that. I want a safe and healthy representation.

About Lae'zel: she makes zero sense as the poly character. She says a multiple times throughout the game, that she isn't ok with sharing and she will not even pursue you,big you are in a relationship. Lae'zel actually is very clear about her intentions, unlike a certain druid on steroids.

I read some time ago that the Githyanki are supposedly not monogamous, so that's why I had also thought they would use Lae'zal for the poly representation. But I'm aware she obviously isn't in the game.

Thank you! As a SA victim and my association with the poly community, this form of representation is highly disturbing.

I know, and I don't mind that they did that at all - I am just surprised that was the choice given what she says and Githyanki culture.

Absolutely terrific post, 10/10 if I had to rate it lol.

The way you managed to ignore almost 500 posts discussing issues with writing/player choice and real life complexities to make yourself (poly people) come out as the victim. *chefs kiss*

From a writing standpoint and maybe a personal preference what is your opinion on sex with animals? Do you also consider it one those heckin valid kinks that represent polyamory/healthy relationships like slavery and rape or? (I would ask about gaslighting but I already know those two are intertwined)


Me and my boy Blackheifer might have disagreed on certain things in his Starfield thread but I think this is pretty spot on.


The unfortunate part is that amongst those people there were individuals that expected something more.


I agree. The way she is now, making her poly would make no sense. But would you believe me if I told you that Lae'zel was planed as a poly/cheating romance. (she would have sex with other companions while in a relationship with the MC) I tried to find the interview with her writer but I had no luck.

Seeing how they decided to butcher Shadowheart and Astarion with that addition I'm rather glad they changed that with Lae'zel.

It’s not okay to attack individuals in this way on these forums. No more of that please.

And as long as it’s done civilly and within forum rules, everyone is welcome to share their own perspective here. Let’s not try to shut down different views by making unfair accusations.

Again, he makes it clear from the start, just poly!
He is a 350 years old Druid! The trauma? He was young when it happened.
He is one with nature and meditates, he even talks to his God!
He says it's ok now. He doesn't deceive us! He's just a poly and we can break up if we don't want to.
He is surrounded by monogamy and knows it, he doesn't want a mono thing.
He doesn't give any wrong signals, you should go with him, but he won't be faithful, physically.
What he allows you, he allows himself.
He is a 350 years old Druid, he knows what he wants and he doesn't constantly impose himself, they exaggerate...
They want to manipulate him, force him to try, but he doesn't want it.
They have enough mono chars and they don't want poly. Halsin is the only poly character and that's a good thing!

I suppose if we were only a minority of the folks clamoring for Halsin - which seems likely - it makes sense for Larian to focus on the majority. Such are the realities of AAA development. I'm immensely grateful for the changes they made to Gale, and for how well Astarion turned out, so even though some of my pre-release fears about the direction they might take Halsin were justified, I'm still not terribly disappointed on the whole.

Since more and more articles and people say that he is a the romance with one of the worst endings, I would say we are hardly alone.