Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion [END SPOILS WARNING] Addressing Karlach (PLEASE PUT SPOILERS IN TAGS)

Yea karlachs quest line only revolving around her engine needing to be fixed was a mistake, especially since it really only is a fetch quest. Completely reworking her questline to be something different would be a massive undertaking though, for one they'd have to remove/add so much more dialogue not only for karlach but the companions as well. Theyd have to bring back so many new and old actors, do all the voice acting AND mocapping, plan a new script for her questline, new endings - its a lot of work for just fixing one character, even if the players have been super vocal about her questline.

Larian could add some avernus ''dungeon'' area where we can explore karlachs past and find a cure(same way the other companions get an area to explore their stories, like the creshe for laezel, cazadors mansion for astarion etc) and have it take place after the confrontation with gortash. That way the questline would be exactly the same as now and larian wouldnt have to change anything up until after gortashs death, the only new content would be avernus itself and a new ending. But thats probably also unlikely to happen since that would also take a lot of work. I guess they could make an avernus adventure dlc although it would feel pretty shady to have karlachs quest locked behind paid content lol

An actual fix for example. And no, the patches were mostly bug fixes outside shitty cutscene that made the whole situation much worse than it was on the release, possibility to remove afk tavs from the party and possibility to change your appearance (aka things that should be in game on the launch). And what's wrong with cyberpunk? Propably the fact that we had to wait 3 years since the release to actually get something playable, if you're fine with games being absolute mess on the release, you're part of the problem


And how does that make any difference? Companies are created to earn money and that's what BG3 did. Once big money comes into play your friendly neighbourhood company will always turn your back on you, I just used companies that were famous for having loyal playerbase that they listened to. Look how they ended up.

Nah, changing her quest to not be about her engine is not happening nor should it, it's too tied into the game and it is the basis of her character's entire conflict. Having an Avernus DLC where we fix her engine is also very unlikely as it would require a massive amount of work just so they can fix one character.

The simplest way Larian can fix her ending is by giving us the option to talk to Zanner Toobin about her engine after we've saved the gondians and done the Steel Watch foundry quest and killed Gortash. Have Zanner tell us that he and his engineers can convert/replace her engine into the plane-stable version they've designed for the Steel Watch but he will need X amount of Enriched Infernal Iron to do it. Then go to him and have him apply this final fix and voila, Karlach's questline is complete.

The work involved for Larian in this resolution is pretty minimal. A few extra dialogue options for talking to Toobin and for talking to Karlach after her engine is fixed. A couple of extra cutscenes, one where Toobin fixes her engine and she is elated and relieved, and one for the ending where instead of the forced tragedy she is happy, grateful and looking forward to her future. Remove Karlach's doomer dialogue options after she is fixed. Finally, if on this route, disable the dialogue option which leads to Karlach volunteering to become a mindflayer - she obviously would not want to do that anymore now that her engine is properly fixed.

This turn of events preserves the whole dead-woman-walking idea right up until almost the end, allows for Karlach's post-killing-Gortash rant to still happen (and it should because that's one of the best moments in the game), allows us to use one of the very obvious in-universe solutions to Karlach's problem that anyone with two brain cells to rub together can see, gives a purpose to the Enriched Infernal Iron that we all know was meant to be used for exactly this, the bad endings are still there and there are plenty of ways you could mess up and get them, AND it requires minimal work from Larian.

This is likely the most we can expect from larian, yes. It would still leave karlachs questline to be rather dull and not give her big character moments/her own dungeon area for us to explore like the other companions get, which is disappointing. Still, id rather take a small patch that let us fix her engine rather than nothing i guess

I would very much prefer they dont take the DLC route, for karlach. It would feel very disingenuine for larian to try fixing the most requested character change. Thriugh a paid DLC.
Ill pay fir a ANY dlc they come out with. Would just rather it not be directly tied to any of the origin characters.

Cyberpunk was playable at launch, but it had hilarious bugs. Performance was somewhat bad on PS, I heard, but I played it at launch and it was fine for me. Didn't even get a T-pose once, and I was playing on a laptop.

Please, can we don't turn Karlach Ending thread in to Cyberpunk thread? Don't trying to be rude, but there exist a Cyberpunk`s sites and forums where people can chat about CB, if they wanna.

Welp, now I'm mildly obsessed with Karlach as a tavern barkeep. I wouldn't take it as a sign of anything that may actually be added to the game, but as a concept? Sign me up. My urchin Tav would be overjoyed to help running a place in their favorite city.

Sorry about that!

I can already imagine us strolling in, ordering a beer, and when she asks for payment we wink at her and tell her, "Just put it on my Tav."

And then we promptly get a loving ass-whoopin'.

It would pretty cool if with the circus love questions (where will karlach be in ten years) an option was owning a tavern with your Tav was available now.

Will be really good. It can replace the "Selune priest" option, that I really dont know why even an option for Karlach...

So I'm here on this thread to vent because I'm extremely upset about how Karlach as a character is handled. It stresses me out to a huge degree. I decided to play as a female elven bard on a 1000% good, straight-laced playthrough. You know, a fun, goofy kind of character so as to have the most fun! The kind of character who can and will smear warg droppings on her face if it gets her out of a pickle, and then walk around with that on all day. And at first I was dedicated, gotta romance Shadowheart, she's the safe bet. And that was all fine and well until I *accidentally* triggered Karlach's first romance scene. Not to spoil at all but, compared to Shadowheart's first romance scene, Karlach's COMPLETELY blew me away and my bard fell, like, in love. It was so sweet, real, raw, natural and comfortable.


Karlach was the perfect romance partner for my chaotic good bard OC-- she was THE only clearly and unambiguously good-hearted character out of all Act 1 origins, fun and goofy, trying to get everything out of life, dancing when everybody's watching. And like... playing as a heroic character on an intended playful/fun playthough... then thinking it's a great idea to romance the irrepressible gal who catches your eye.... who is pretty much the only person who's wholeheartedly enthusiastic about you from the beginning... who makes you laugh, whose positivity and zest for life is infectious...... then...... OMGGGGGGGGGGG. The level of heartbreak. We all know. Whoa. It's kind of ruining the game for me. And 10000% ruining that playthrough. When you think about who's going to romance Karlach, it IS a million percent going to be someone going down a good/heroic route. Somebody who plays games for a remotely happy ending, you know? Me personally, I play games to heal my heart, not to feel vicariously traumatized by them.


Karlach doesn't NEED to tell a story about terminal illness and trying to make the most of life in light of that. If that's the story that's being told. It's gratuitous, wildly unnecessary. AREN'T THERE ENOUGH PEOPLE WITH TERMINAL ILLNESSES IN REAL LIFE that we don't need to have the trauma reiterated in a video game??? Why shouldn't you be able to make your own fantasy a safe place if you want it to be? Same as, you should be able to make your fantasy horrific if you want it to be. But your own fantasy shouldn't make you stressed and upset and reiterate tragedies that we see every single day.


And I'm also speaking as someone who HAS lost somebody to a terminal illness. And to see it again in a game with someone who is so easy to feel deeply attached to.... no, no, no. Please, NO.


My one last point, and I hope this one is cogent and well-taken. Remember that movie Get Out? Yeah the one directed by Jordan Peele. END SPOILERS for that if you don't want the end of that movie spoiled for you, okay? I'm going to talk about the end. So Jordan Peele had two prospective endings lined up. Ending one is what we saw in theaters. The main character (a black guy) has just killed bloodthirsty white lady, who turned his life into a freakish horror movie, and a police car pulls up, lights flashing. For a moment you CRINGE so hard.... OMG the cops have come and we're going to see our hero killed or thrown in jail when he did nothing wrong. But thank GOD, it turns out to be his friend and they escape together. HUGE sigh of relief.


BUT there was an alternate ending that never aired. The cops did show up. The hero was thrown in jail. And he talks to his friend on a phone in prison and says that he's glad that he at least ended the horrors of that bloodthirsty white lady etc. OUCH CRINGE CRINGE. The worst. But THERE'S A REASON Jordan Peele chose the FIRST ending. And it's because we see enough pain, suffering, injustice, in real life. We see ENOUGH horrifying things happening to good people. We see enough tragedy. So Jordan Peele chose to give viewers a path beyond tragedy. A happy ending. And personally I'm so grateful he did.


I hope that folks can see the comparison here with the story of Karlach. What happens to her almost makes the game unplayable for me, straight up. And I'm just some random person who completely lost herself in Divinity Original Sin 2, LOVED the romance of Sebille by Lohse and its conclusion, and was SO excited about Baldur's Gate 3. I still think it's amazing. Of course. But like... if you want a heroic playthough with a thoroughly good-hearted romance partner, it'll break your heart and be so painful that you question whether it was worth it. :'(


Shadowheart is fine and all but for a chaotic good character like mine, a silly bard taking every opportunity to be pleasantly ridiculous, having my girlfriend threaten to GUT me is an enormous turn-off. And Karlach would never dream of threatening that, let alone doing it, to my character. Those are my thoughts/vent. I hope that this vent, adding to the upsurge of voices recorded here, contributes to Larian re-considering how they handle Karlach. Her newest ending definitely included. Yeah it was better. But still. I'd like to see something significant done about her problem BEFORE we have to see her literally dying.


Thanks for reading, folks. Yeah, justice for Karlach.

Well said T.T

Good post, Ecc2ca.

I think after it's all said and done, we can talk about the plot holes, the inconsistency with regards to concessions given to other companions, the inexcusably bad quest line, the fact that her quests just straight up don't matter, the fact that her endings actually indirectly ruin other endings...

But the fact is that her kind of story just doesn't feel like it fits in a game like BG3. It's not just unsatisfying in terms of removing player choice but, considering everything we are able to do for everyone else, it just seems like unneeded cruelty in a setting where you can escape the wrath of literal gods for the sake helping other companions. But Karlach is tortured and destroyed because her engine is... Old I guess? Because that's REALLY an issue in DnD?

No one really likes her endings and ABSOLUTELY no one likes her quest line.

Thanks. I hope they work out a better questline for her. In terms of what kind of ending would be satisfying to ME personally... I'm not too hard to please. I'd be happy with an ending where she and OC (or whoever you play as) are free to get a fresh start, after everything. And I like it when my in-game romance partner says something at the end of the game like, 'wherever you go, that's where I'll go, because we love each other, right?' A brief acknowledgement that the love story is continuing. So I'm not asking for a LOT. Or... so it seems to me. DOS2 had some kind of crowd-funding campaign, right? I seem to remember. I'd be more than happy to donate whatever I was able to a campaign like that, if it meant that they could re-work Karlach's character.

I disagree. I think tragic stories have their well earned place in video games. It's just that they have no place here, in a freaking D&D game about magic and shit and being able to kill powerful demons solo in 1 turn (6 seconds). It was never advertised as a game about doom and gloom, it was advertised as goofy adventure about romancing a bear and flirting with anything that moves, talking to funny animals and committing a horrible atrocity or two if you so incline. But not boring sobby mess about incurable conditions.

This is something I keep thinking about, especially because Larian choose a specifically outcome to Descent into Avernus in DnD that preceded BG3.

Basically, in Descent to Avernus your party could possibly redeem Zariel (or try) while trying to return Elturel to Faerun. Of course, as an adventure in DnD, much is open to decide. But Larian did decide on Zariel still being an Archdevil, but Elturel to have returned.

There is a magical item in Avernus that belonged to Zariel, a sword that basically makes anyone who touches it an angelic form of themselves (it’s irreversible and the person is basically gone, kinda Astarion ascended vibes/mindflayer, but for good and celestial perfection).

It would be awesome if Karlach’s quest involved going to Avernus for the chance of either killing Zariel (revenge pure and simple) or redeem her. Karlach trying to redeem Zariel could be very interesting, since she’d have to see something to redeem, and maybe we could learn more about what it was like for her in the Hells. But she’d have a big choice there - using the sword would erase herself, but also “cure” her, since her body would become “perfect”. It’s akin to Shadowheart’s choice of serving Shar. The entire thing could lead to Karlach learning to let go of revenge and show compassion instead.

The idea that on this journey Karlach has to deal with becoming more aggressive and violent the more she uses her engine is perfect. Zariel herself, who made the engine, is exactly that: extremely belligerent, ruthless and full of wrath. Perhaps the engine makes Karlach more and more like Zariel herself, bringing her closer to the same path that led the former angel to fall. That would be quite interesting to see. And in that, maybe we could find out that Zariel favors Karlach because unconsciously she reminds her of her former self - righteous but ruthless, raging and charging into battle head first. Zariel used to do that too, for what she saw as greater good but she lost her path. Karlach could perhaps be a way of Zariel to redeem herself, while Karlach redeems her, you know? And if Zariel sees that, she might offer a way to “fix” Karlach, or if she returns to her celestial form, cure Karlach herself.

Of course, in losing the engine, Karlach would lose much of her strength, perhaps needing to “respec”.


Well, that’s what I’ve been mulling over the past few days haha

That would make a fine campaign but Karlach would still remain robbed of a meaningful narrative choice in her BG3 adventure to setup all of this.



I'm catching very heavy "Rejection of the Gift" vibes from WoW lol, where Illidan refused to become a holy entity which would erase his traumatic experiences, shouting "I AM MY SCARS" at the creature who tried to forcibly transform him and destroying it.

Awhile back when I decide to delve into some Avernus lore, I found what I thought was potential for Zariel to do a whiplash redemption story arc. It could be a fascinating character.

Fallen angel but for the "right" reasons, at least according to her. Her celestial peers did not agree so fallen she went.

She seems to make the most of it. Rising to power with the approval a big timer of the hells no less. Zariel was considered a token however, a sort of prize. The hells being able to turn an angel to their side or something along those lines.

Karlach has potential regarding Zariel redemption arc.

If Karlach were to receive some sort of intervention or fix to her engine, it would be interesting to see it go from infernal powered to maybe something like radiant powered.