Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion Halsin Romance, Expectations and Obligatory Poly

There is a difference between manipulation and healthy discussion, I think I can say after being on this thread a few days that most people here do not want Halsin to be stripped of his poly status nor do they want to manipulate him into being monogamous. There are quite a few issues with his dialogue and background, as well as how the poly itself was implemented (not just with Halsin himself). It's more complex than 'poly bad/monogamy good'.

Please read the criticism here again, because most of the people here don't disagree with what you said.

What most do disagree with is the manipulative way that polygamy (and to some extent RA) is being represented. And that requires having seen all of Halsin's content in a broader context.

The issue with Halsin is that in a healthy relationship (and this is extremely valued in polygamy) is respect, open communication, compromise, and ONGOING discussion of the relationship so that to accommodate each other's needs and feelings

These are the things that are not only sorely lacking, but there is a pretended of this being here, which mean Halsin goes from a lovely and respectful character, for whom trust and loyalty is important, to a manipulative nice guy, who never cared about Tav but simply saw them as I means to something we else.

The next part is Halsin extremely problematic representation of trauma as a SA assault victim, that is so bad that is triggering to actual SA victims - something that Astarion was so praised for handling right and with respect.

I don't think any of this was intentional by the writer, but I do think it is a massive issue.


Halsin requests that we respect his nature as it is: perfect. I have zero issue with this at all.

I do dislike the ultimatum he is proposing in the form of withholding affection that he has been maturing for two acts.

What I would love to see is this scenario:

Tav is monogamous, but has no issue with Halsin pursuing others as well. In turn Halsin respects that Tav is monogamous and will not low key pressure them into his life style - like saying "you are all I want, but let others know the joy of being with you".(From this line it is clear that it was assumed that everyone would have another romance no matter what, but in this case it comes off really toxic).

The way he more or less mocks Tav for asking what his perspective on their relationship is, and how he circumvents the question is absolutely gaslighting. It's handled poorly.

What I would like to see is that through a quest in act three he grows in terms of his view on commitment. (The hints are already there "I can scarcely imagine life without you now", "you are all I want* and "I will stay at your side")

I would like him being open to a relationship with shared goals, dreams, and joined efforts towards ideals that they share. And support each other through these things. I don't want/need forever after, but I would like to see the acknowledgement that he is willing to invest in Tav emotionally and not just physically - and that is the implication at present.

This unwillingness to compromise, commitment and find balance, goes directly against his established character.

I am not poly myself, but have had poly partners, but I am RA with long-term healthy relationships. This representation makes us seem callous, unfeeling, manipulative and uncompromising - and nothing could be further from the truth when it is practiced with respect.

(Adding this part, because I know this can be a bit tricky to understand.

I am dem-sexual with a low sexdrive. For me to experience sexual attraction the circumstances need to be very specific. This is my personal prefference, but also a very rare one. Now, my partner doesn't have this preference and has a much higher sexdrive. So, based on me knowing there are parts of our relationship, where I cannot meet my partners needs, I told them that I would be fine with them pursuing this with someone else. With that comes discussions and setting of boundaries (these are personal, so no details, but an example could be: Do not bring home a temporary partner to meet a shared child. Do not introduce a new partner to a child before it has been discussed and the other partner has had a chance to meet them first) - that type of thing.

It is not for everyone, but this shows a type of compromise that can be implemented in a healthy way on both sides.

Halsin is, as it stands, not a representation of poly, but a non-committed fling at best - at worse a gaslighter who uses witholding of affection to get the rigid terms he wants without discussion. And this is vile.)

Does not sound bad, but a quest line? Might be too much, more dialogues would perhaps come.
Many have already completed BG 3, an Addon or DLC should not come, I have read.

There will be a definitive edition that will aadd a bunch of additional content. And I have rea dthe DLC talk too, but that was pure speculation on something Swen said, while he has said something else earlier. And this is a company that needs to thrive - it would be a waste of opportunity to not add DLC content.

The issue was adding additional levels beyond level 12 - not adding more content. And Larian has been "begging" Wizard's of the Coast for YEARS to get to make this title, so they will not be abandoning it that quickly. There is also the fact that Minthara's VA has made comments that actually hinted at DLC content.

I don't think Halsin is manipulative, but more dialogue would be good to explain himself in Act 1 or 2.
I have no problem if he doesn't want to (a serious relationship), but he doesn't have much dialogue unless it's about the grove and shadow cursed. If you click on Halsin, he doesn't say anything, he needs more lines.

I don't think he was meant to be manipulative. But it can be seen this way. It also heavily depends on if you have another romance beside him. Then he is more like a fling anyway. But if you wait for him until act 3 and rejected every other companion it feels different. Especially with the ending.

Yes he lacks the normal clicky sounds if you cast a spell with him or use him to go somewhere and inspect something. I hope they add it in, the voice lines are there they are just not coming up.

Then what is he? What other than manipulative can he be?

Manipulation = the action of influencing or controlling someone or something to your advantage, often unfairly or dishonestly.

On several occasions in ACT 1-2 Halsin says things that implies he wants a deeper relationship with Tav. He flirts and act in a way that for most people is a clear indication of Halsin wanting to commit to the player char, he's very sweet and says things one would want to hear while beginning a lasting relationship. Then, suddenly, when he has hooked Tav, in ACT 3 he reveals that nothing of what he said and did is in fact true, he doesn't want emotional commitment, doesn't want a relationship, doesn't want something long lasting, he just wants to sleep with Tav (and everyone else). Add to that how he pushes Tav to do the same without providing the option to say "no, I just want you".

He was dishonest with his intentions and made a clear choice to romance Tav and influence them to fall in love, when in fact he didn't want that love or that commitment. All he wanted was their body.

That, if anything, is manipulation.

No, but the option for something to develop between them shoudl be there. As it stands now, Halsin works alright if you have an additional romance and he is just "side candy". As a proper romance equal to your previous romance and especially when you romance only him, the context of his romance is horrible and manipulative. He wasn't meant to be that way, but he becomes that because of how poorly this option is handled.

And the reason why I mind the not serious relationship is because is is a fundemental change in his characters, that fit no other of his beliefs and comes out of nowhere. It doesn't match what he says before or after. (him being not commital, not him being polygamous - that's not really an issue).

But you only notice how jarring it is when you romance only him.

I'm going to be honest, I didn't think that Halsin was supposed to be a good and honest representation of a polyamorous person. To me, and I guess this is subjective, it felt like a cheap excuse to have a relationship/sex with other characters AND add Halsin to the mix. Like a little "harem" for you (I.e. fanservice, think of the Reddit crowd that just wants to have a self-indulgent playthrough with lots of sex and funny hijinks.) It didn't strike me as a "mature druid who knows what he wants" at all! I agree with every point Cowoline said.

It feels phony, disingenuous and forced. The worst part was how he refused to define the "relationship" and instead decided to go off on a tangent about how it is not a word he uses, it is too civilised (etc.) which struck me as so out of character and odd! Real people who live in poly relationships or non-monogamous lifestyles would NEVER just say something like this! I'd wager to say that communication is literally the most important aspect of such a relationship. And THIS is what I wish to see patched. I don't want to press a button and Halsin is now totally different - the damage is already done, anyway - but I would want for a proper discussion, some additional lines that explain what is ultimately going on, how the relationship will continue, maybe a compromise for both. Compared to how well done and handled other romances are, this is so bad. Really took the wind out of my sails.

I didn't notice any dialogue like this that refers to a possible relationship in Act 1 and 2.
It's all about the grove and shadow cursed, he also says personal things, but nothing about relationships, what does he say?

He doesn't say anything about a relationship per sé, it's mostly flirting. He definitely flirts with you explicitly in camp, and then again explicitly at the end of Act 2. He often alludes to the fact that once he has his heart set on someone or something, it's all he lives for and come across and obsessed. I don't remember it word for word, but it was something about his mind being free of the curse now and he has his eyes and heart set on someone special (something along those lines).
But yes, no relationship talk before Act 3 at all.

In 1 and 2 he doesn't really flirt, I don't remember any words like that.

Today I'll check to see if I still have saves.

During the camp party in Act 1 and after you lift the curse in Act 2. Those are the only times he explicitly flirts with you. I'm not lying, I swear. ;-)

I believe you, I just don't know these words I hope I still have saves.

I don't remember the exact quotes or all dialogue available, there's quite a few that coupled with circumstances, overall depiction of personality, body language and tone of voice, builds up my overall impression of who Halsin is and what he wants in ACT 1-2. I'm not saying I'm interpreting this man the way it was intended or anything, I'm just saying this is how I see the situation, and I, personally, feel manipulated by him. And I know I'm not the only one.

But here are some examples I can think of right now (Add to these that Halsin comes across as a very committal person who cares about emotional impact etc etc. He's portrayed as a man that cares about those around him):

- At camp celebration in ACT 1 there's VERY obvious flirting going on.
Some examples include how he says "I'm sure there are, you strike me as extremely...resourceful" with a very special tone of voice when the player asks him if there's anything else he'd rather do (after Halsin rejected the idea of having a drink with Tav). He goes on to say he "doesn't want to keep Tav all to themselves this evening, despite how enjoyable that might be" (which is obv flirting). When Tav says they really want to get to know Halsin this evening, he replies with something in the lines of "perhaps I can help you with that, another time".

- When you ask about his family, he says they perished a long time ago (and makes a point about the pain of this and how it never heals etc, further hinting to his caring nature and emotional maturity etc), and says something about how the grove became his new family, and how he also has you now. (implying that he sees Tav as being as important as family to him = which in turns add to the sense he seeks long term commitment)

- In ACT 2, in the Shadowlands, you can ask him if there's anything you can do to take his mind of things, and he says he "can think of a few things" (hinting to sex obv), when pushed further into matter, he says that once the curse is lifted there'll be time for himself, and for others (again hinting to him wanting to move forward with Tav. And since he rejected the offer of "just sex" prior to this, one can assume that Halsin wants more than this but doesn't want to move forward until his mind is clear of the curse)

- When you've defeated Ketheric, you can ask Halsin something about what he'll do now that he's gotten what he wants. And Halsin then says that there might be more he wants. Tav asks what. Halsin says "not what, who." And then says something about in due time etc. (hinting that he wants Tav, and since nothing has been hinted at him being noncommittal (rather the opposite actually), it's easy to assume he means he wants them for more than just sex)

- a bit of a stretch perhaps, but when he joins you for real during Thaniel's quest in late ACT 2. He tells you that "if you want him, he's yours, for the shadow curse, the absolute..." then he takes a moment and gives you this look and with a different tone, says "anything" (sort of implying that he's getting ready to give himself to you for real)


Overall, the implication of all of his lines, paired with his general personality, is that he's just waiting for the shadowcurse to end before he can fully commit to Tav. But he never "fully commits" to Tav, quite the opposite. And that's where my problem lies. Halsin "promises" me emotional commitment (not necessarily monogamous commitment, but commitment nonetheless) and instead gives me "emotionless casual sex", which is not even close to what his personality and the buildup alluded to. Hence the feeling of manipulation.

He says that he doesn't want to engage in a relationship just yet because he gets obsessed with things and he "wants to give you his UNDIVIDED attention". The implication of something permanent is there constantly. So, while he does not outright say this there he later says "Can scarcely imagine to be without you now." There is this constant looming that it is serious for him - which it might be - but then it gets pulled back.

These are the options I can see:

1. Shitty writing
2. Serious commitment issues
3. Manipulating emotions
4. Lack of player agency

You've summed up what I wanted to say yesterday, but way more nuanced and eloquently. Thank you. I thought I was the only one who felt manipulated (I thought I was silly) by this fictional man. And the points you've summed up so well are exactly wherein the issue lies, at least for me. I felt like such a fool. Not a good feeling to have while trying to roleplay!

So that doesn't sound like a solid commitment in Act 1 and 2. He's just expressing maybe interest and that he has something to do. I don't see any hint of a committed relationship and the sweet words don't come until Act 3.

Exactly. I have no notes for this other than 100% support.

In Act 2, Halsin should make it clear what his preferences are. No, Larian should clarify, whether in the game or as a comment.