Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion Halsin Romance, Expectations and Obligatory Poly

It is constantly implied, and it is a general manipulative strategy that is commonly used in gaslighting. It's emotional blackmail.


Coersive gaslighting/abuse:

"Coercion is a spectrum of behaviours. It ranges from convincing someone by using charm or seeming to be very caring. It can also be exerting pressure or being emotionally and/or verbally manipulative in order to get one’s way. Often the gaslighter uses something important or close to your heart as ammunition."

Halsin encourages Tav's emotions, while making implications of being a committed and loyal individual in general. Then when he actually start showing the first steps towards his romance he ONLY talks about what he wants.

He knows that Tav has developed feelings for him, and then comes with an ultimatum "I only do things this way. You have to accept that 100% and be willing to be like this, or I will withhold my affection for you."

That's abuse. What is worse is that it is "covered" by what seems informed consent and respect, but Tav is stripped of all agency. Tak into account that Halsin was also used as a specific example for the extent of player choice. And instead of having nuance you get a yes and no ultimatum.


Also, why is it only Halsin that gets to determine the rules of the relationship? This applies to literally no other romance in the game.

The botched his romance extensively.

Maybe Halsin is just pretending, maybe he really isn't that nice. Wow, that would be a plot twist? Interesting, but also strange.

Look, I am fine with plot twists, but unfortunately this on is rather shitty in it's execution XD

First of all let's acknowledge that writing romantic and sexual attraction that feels organic in a game is hard. Because in reality there are so many more nuances to how humans communicate those feelings.

Even the straightforward monogamous relationship paths have issues with how the characters motives are supposed to be interpreted and when characters express actual interest and when they are just casually talking.

This very complex setup with Halsin, where he is supposed to fit all the roles of friendly companion, secondary lover and primary (but non-committed) lover are just way more complicated to work into the game. The funny, kinky, rough trade sex meme became their cop-out rather than putting the required effort and care into it, so that any inconsistencies and uncomfortable interpretations can just be brushed away that he is a joke.

I've heard of the red prince, is a Larian character, right? He shouldn't be so nice either, maybe Halsin is like him.

Oh, he is an asshole, but he is 100% up front with you. It's... you can't even be mad LOL

They got a lot of kink suggestions, and in trying to please everyone just shoved it into Halsin, Shadowheart and Astarion without thinking. But Act 3 as a hole is a mess.

They're all elves and pretty, elves are popular and people especially wanted these three, I think.
But Astarion is stupid, I can hardly do quests, he is always against it!

2/3 has the same writer, and Astarion... /shudders that's just tav being coercive as hell. And yes, he can be a pain XD I love him though.

I'm so glad I found this thread. I, too, was planning to hold off on romance for Halsin, but after reading through I am so glad that I had time to pivot away from that.

If Halsin starts coercing my character or other characters and there's no way to shut him down or make him leave, my character will kill him and I will stay far away from any Larian game and its sicko writer in the future.

I've been a victim of this sort of man before, due to my "picker" being broken thanks to childhood trauma. They promise you over and over again that they love you, and remain emotionally unavailable until you destroy yourself. Normalizing emotional abuse should not be labeled as entertainment. Any writer who does so is suspect. Perhaps this guy should be investigated like the guy at Blizzard.

Alternatively, if my character has a way to call him out and put him in his place for this nonsense, then I can see it and even champion it for showing emotional abuse for what it is. I'm far too old and damaged to put up with this sort of thing in any medium anymore.

I think the 'Obligatory Poly' in the title of the thread pretty much sums up what's happening with Halsin.

The writers were tasked with making SOME kind of polyamory present in the game's relationships, and unfortunately, they sort of jammed it into Halsin's romance options awkwardly.

I simply don't buy this particular guy as being a poly. I really don't buy him being a manipulative prick either. It seems that originally the writers wanted this to be a sweet bara daddy type of guy, but then looking at their cast, they realized there wasn't enough poly representation, and people are OBSESSED with representation these days. Halsin was already sufficiently catering to the furry crowd, and they could have done well to leave it there.

Even having him ultimately not a full-romance option would have been fine, he has had some very traumatizing experiences in his backstory, and being mistrustful of his own feelings, and of people romancing him, is totally believable. He could even have offered sex, but not a more complete relationship, because he loves nature enough to be in tune with physical passions. "Let's take it slow on the feelings, but if you want a little fun for now, I'm game" is a totally valid position, and would even have helped him seem mature, which is how he is portrayed in the earlier segments of the game.

Instead, he, like most companions, seems all-too-willing to fall in love with your Tav. That's also fine, but trying to make the DRUID the poly one makes the LEAST sense.

The way he acts currently reminds me in a lot of ways of Minthara, who also has some really weird dichotomies in her relationship with Tav. It makes SENSE for her to be manipulative and dishonest about whether she wants feelings or just to get sticky with you.

I think the real fault here is that the writers felt FORCED to include the 'poly' aspects of Halsin's romance in order to cater to a very specific crowd, and he's just not the right character for it. As a non-origins character, he doesn't have as much time in the focus of the story to fall back on to flesh out his romantic story. As far as I am aware, all of the non-origins characters are poly-friendly, except where they conflict with an origins-character who explicitly dislikes them.

I was so thrilled with all the flirting he does in Acts I and II, because I knew - from pre-release publicity - that his romance scene was likely to be very late in the game, which indeed it is, and the flirting was a nice way to build up to it and maintain sexual tension over all that time. Now, though - well, to be honest, I still love the flirting, because I'm a simp, but it does feel a little "wrong" and hollow, since it seems to promise entirely different things than he intends. If only they'd give him a line, just one line, at the tiefling party, to better clarify what his view on relationships is!

I like Halsin as a poly, but there is more, I think.

Constructive criticism of the writing and plot is of course fine, but I’ve seen some unpleasant and personal insinuations in this thread. Given the number of moderator warnings this thread is attracting, this is the last notice before it is locked for a cooling down period.

I would again ask everybody to reflect on whether they are just repeating themselves. And to consider that measured and constructive feedback might be more likely to effect any changes that people want to see.

The poly is for me fin - if the representation had been good. But it's not. It's this toxic mess that makes him seem like he is having a midlife crisis - which is valid, but I do not need that represantation.

I think there's something there, maybe something else will come.

I hope so. And I hope they take our feedback to heart. It's not about changing what is there, but adding to it.

I would love for him to have a quest in act 3, where you see him interact with the orphans so his ending seems more natural. The way he speaks is as if Tav knows absolutely nothing about it - which Tav doesn't.

It seems a little deceptive that he hasn't mentioned it at all before he is about to leave.

Why do we think there is this thread made to discuss obligatory poly with this character, who does not desire to include a walled garden romancer in his life, but there was not a mirror of this thread made to discuss community feedback about obligatory monogamy, in regards to all the others who do not agree to let their hearts be free?

It is not abuse that after our character says they agree with Halsin and that your hearts remain free, that he proceeds through the romance with the understanding that we are in agreement. I hope that in future playthroughs, careful attention is granted to the RP choices the game is making available that the player gets the chance to choose between, having complete agency.

The romance requires the player to flag agreement, and there is a way to challenge him -- by withholding the player character's affection from him, saying it is not meant to be because your character does not agree and does not align with him. There is not a way to challenge him and proceed in much the same way that we cannot challenge Gale to allow poly when he doesn't want it and proceed. Gale's ultimatum for monogamy with a monogamous partner is not a topic of community conversation, is not being labeled toxic, abuse, creepy: why might that be?

Having a boundary around entering into intimate trust and care with someone who fundamentally disagrees with how Halsin romances is not an example of abuse on his part. He is not an abuser for having an on/off romance switch in the game's design. The way that poly looks in this one character is not meant to represent all poly. I have to gush: when he is eager for player character's visit, the joy and anticipation in his voice is so sweet and fulfilling.

To address something I see coming up pretty often, a person's demeanor and affect do not "say" subconsciously anything about how they conduct themselves in sex or intimacy.

Stereotyping and expecting one type of romance, and receiving another, does not mean that the character or the writers were being manipulative, except perhaps in the way of writers subverting expectations, which is part of the manipulations we agree to be entertained with when we play a story. And maybe Halsin is lying and his internal monologue is as manipulative as is being presumed. Does Halsin have to say in Act 1 more flags for players to not turn down other romances for him? A common complaint here has been getting to Act 3, spending so much time in the game, before seeing what his romance will be like. A new cutscene where he plainly speaks about everything in his romance track, having a wild heart that isn't moved easily yet doesn't enter walled gardens, would maybe be a little odd in Act 1, but I'm sure the writers could figure it out. And maybe then we'd get another cutscene! Which would be so so wonderful and I do hope for it. Though, I would much rather the cutscene, if we only get one and if we get one at all, be for the romance track. But if this is really needed in Act 1 to make sure every player who has a chance to recruit Halsin understands up front that he will have a certain romance style, and to not close the door on other romances and miss out on content, I'll be interested to see how it's handled.

Not everyone looking at this character assigns him the stereotypes and expectations that lead to this interpretation of him as manipulative; being stoic, loyal, kind, devoted, and careful are not qualities synonymous with a specific romance style. Lots of devoted, loyal, dependable people require obligatory poly in real life, like lots of changeable, flighty, insecure people require obligatory monogamy in real life. In this case, the issue is less with the representation of poly or a character who gives off dependable and loyal vibes, and more the automatic expectation that there will be the kind of commitment expected.

We don't have to be in constant negotiations about the boundaries of the relationship in the game because the relationship flag to start the romance RPs agreement. We agree. In this romance, the RP choice available is to agree to the style of poly and to have no conflict. That is not toxic or abusive, the opposite, it is two people saying, "Yes?" "Yes!" And I hope that no further dev time for this character is given to create the long conversations and negotiations that happen irl to help navigate envy, jealousy, and individual needs about cohabitation, time together, etc.

Just exactly the same way that I hope longer discussions negotiating with Gale, Wyll, or Lae'zel for concessions and compromises to their monogamy is not how their dev time gets devoted. It just would not serve the characters, in my opinion.

The representation of poly where two characters agree to let their hearts be free is fine, it is not abuse and it is not toxic.

I hope Larian absolutely leans into the meme angle and gives us an Act 3/postgame hot spring episode in the future dev for this character. My wish and dream: imagine the gifs. Imagine him sitting in a hot spring, like a contented capybara/bear - free of stress, thriving, meditating. Player character giving him a shoulder rub while talking about whatever Halsin is growing into in this state, his ambitions and feelings about himself and his family and his memories. I love this dude sooo much I really hope he keeps being paid attention to by the studio.

Yeah, I get that. It would need to be an unskippable line, too! Something he says at the start of a dialogue tree. Otherwise it doesn't really help guide players with the aim of giving them a clear picture of his romance style in Act 3, to help them make choices early on. It would be a little strange imo so I understand why this currently doesn't exist. Like imagine having "I am a free love type of guy" be one of the first things a dude says to you before you indicate any interest and before he has an interest in hooking up with you because he's got so much else going on -- I imagine it will be difficult to write it without it being skeevy. But because of it being a video game, maybe realism and part of his characterization needs to be sacrificed to clarity of player options.

Well for me personally, I don't mind that Halsin is poly. My issues have to do with what I perceive as writing inconsistencies with regard to his characterization, and lack of player agency. Like if there was a more clear moment where the PC could say "I only want a relationship with you" and discuss what that means, that would be great, even if he ultimately rejected the PC.

As for the expectation of commitment from romances . . . Yeah, most people do expect that (unless it's clearly telegraphed by the character that they aren't committal types!). The majority of players want to be able to have a happily ever after with their romance, not a "maybe I'll see you around" ending.

It's pretty clear to me that the devs didn't have as much time as they wanted/needed to really polish and think through some of the romances (especially Halsin, Wyll, Minthara, and Karlach). That's the real issue to me, not whether Halsin is poly.

Edit: also, maybe it's just a me thing (though I think some people feel the same way) but some of his dialogue does come across as manipulative, even if your character says they aren't interested in him. I don't think this was intended.