Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion Halsin Romance, Expectations and Obligatory Poly

I think the party is exactly the kind of atmosphere where it could most logically be brought up. We already learn a few things about him - his non-tolerance for alcohol, for instance, and more relevantly, that a casual hook-up out of the blue is exactly something he might've been up for (and has been in the past) if not for his current preoccupations. It's almost there. Almost.

I don't want to force him, but by Act 2 at the latest he should show what he likes.
I asked him, how is our relationship? I think he laughed because of the word 'relationship'.
He can have others too, but he can't even say relationship?
I don't want to say I was sad, but it was very, very strange.

Good point! A clear party night come-on from player character, where in response he's encouraging (will romance eventually) in a way that also says he won't be available until late-game (act 3), and that he's into free love when he romances at all so the player should pursue other romance options in the game and not turn them down for Halsin because other romances won't lock him out, is a tall order for the writers but I trust it could be done. Inevitably there will still be people grossed out by him and feel he's too forward. And any players who don't choose the party night flirt still won't know, so it won't catch everyone. Yet an explanation of his romantic style after a first proposition truly sounds like what some players are needing to not get to this frustration of needing to return to Act 1 from Act 3. If it's there, even if not everyone sees it, at least it's there. This level of specific game-to-player communication is something being asked of the poly romance but not the mono romances, which I'll admit is a little tiring to me on a metaphysical level, but I see that it's because so much player time passes before Act 3 and people are finding that the flags for other romance content have been passed up. While the mono romances develop throughout and have so much more content, and the player expectations for monogamy make it so those characters don't need to preface their answers to first flirts/propositions with an explanation of their romance style.

This is the part, where the conversation sadly keeps going in circles. As an RA person myself, I see the way Halsin treats another person as absolute disrespect and disregard of someone else's feelings.

The comparison with Gale is flawed, because Gale's attitude toward relationships aren't fluid. He has a very firm understanding of his relationship.

Halsin says he is fluid, but then acts as rigid as Gale. That is a major disconnect.

As for leaning into the meme, I am not certain why anyone would want something so entirely shallow as a meme, and reduce a complex character to a sex object. But I recognise that is my personal preference playing a part here.

As for the RA: Yes, healthy RA is an ongoing evaluation when a connection is kind term. But it is clear from your post, that you are not considering long term connections in this regard.


As an RA person myself, I am deeply disturbed by Halsin's representation fo relationship anarchy in the game. It's not RA, but gaslighting and emotional manipulation.

It lacks two way communication, compromise, and understanding. With Halsin it is only one way.

If they wish to portray RA in a healthy way, here is a description for you:

*Rather than promising to stay together until death do they part, relationship anarchists usually agree to be together while it is a happy and healthy relationship for everyone involved. Rejecting externally imposed obligations as the basis of their connection, RA practitioners tend to build connections on love and respect grounded in choice. Some RA relationships last for decades with a commitment to treat each other so well that they want to stay together out of joy, rather than being obligated by some external force binding them together. While the commitment to stay together only as long as they are happy with each other may seem too unstable or likely to come apart at the first sign of trouble, folks proficient in RA also tend to put a lot of time and effort in to building their communication skills, so that they can work through problems and remain happy with each other. Kale explains that RA can allow folks to build families and relationships they can count on:*

*“Obligations are fluid and open to change. Once you agree to something, the person can expect it will happen, but that doesn't mean it's going to happen always and forever. Everything can be discussed and renewed on an ongoing basis.”*


Representation matters, but unless they do it with proper research and understanding leave it out. In this case RA has been portrayed as a toxic journey of emotional blackmail.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/int...rchy-polyaffectivity-and-chosen-families

i don't want to say that john ruined halsin when he implemented him as a romance option and a full blown companion, but he totally ruined him. i saw a comment from an annoyed halsin romancer who said that john should'nt make male romance options anymore. at the time when i saw that comment, i was under the impression that john created ifan, but no, he was in charge of the red prince. knowing this, i can now say that john should not create anymore male romance options in the future lol

At this point, most of the poly and RA people are actually unhappy with this representation. You are one of my the lucky few, who actually thinks this representation is healthy and respectful. I am glad, you're happy with the content.

I am still uncertain why you feel threatened by the addition of more nuanced content that lore accurately displays the important nuances that exists within fluid relationships, but I am sorry if it makes you uncomfortable. I just want to reassure you that the critism of Halsin is not a personal attack on you <3

We don't want to take anything away from Halsin, but the man can't even say relationship, that is exaggerated.

Will reply to this but (part of) your larger post as well. Part of the issue is that Halsin indeed gives no indication to the player that he's poly. In fact, it feels like his romance trigger is "PC exists and didn't stone him to death with the goblin kids". I made sure not to pick any kind of flirting options, though I didn't blatantly insult him either, and he still wanted me in act 3. I'd assume the cause is that he's not a character you walk around with for most of the game up to that point, so you don't interact with him as much and thus don't build up any approval, therefore they had to make his romance trigger more broad or it'd be too easy to miss.

While I agree there could've been room for poly for all companions based on player dialogue choices, I assume there's some reasons they hadn't. It's less popular of a mindset, it would require a lot more work in addition to rewriting in some cases, and it might mess with 'in romance' triggers between PC and companions, though I admit those are unfortunately quite lacking, even in act 3 where the pursued romances are meant to shine. That said, the game does feel quite poly in act 1, since you can sleep around rather freely and still pursue the romance you wanted later on. It's not until act 2 that most companions will make you choose.

One of the issues with Halsin's poly approach to me isn't that Halsin is poly, but that it required them to come up with two outcomes. Either force it upon more companions, or have romancing Halsin have a negative ending with any other companion you romanced up to that point. They ended up forcing it on Astarion and Shadowheart, with others having options to be bullied into it from what I've heard. Neither of those work, in my opinion. Astarion starts the game off with using sex as a way to get you to fall for him for protection, then falls for you and when you break through his defensive wall he becomes dependent on you. Not the type of person I'd see sharing all of a sudden, which he doesn't in act 2 with other companions either. Can't say much more about his romance since I haven't played through it yet. Shadowheart avoids advances for physical contact for most of the game (with the exception of the kiss), biding her time for a good moment. She will break up with you in act 2 if you even so much as kiss another companion (poor Wyll) and becomes arguably the most emotionally attached companion out of all of them depending on your choices at the end of act 2. She also becomes fairly insecure, wondering multiple times if and why you want to be with her. She is not written to be the type that's okay with poly either; at least the Selune path.

So none of the characters have been logically written to be poly, including the one the others were retconned for in the first place - Halsin himself. Of course that doesn't mean they can't be, but then people will criticize the writing for not remotely fitting the narrative and thus ruining their immersion. Sort of reminds me of the good old ctrl+alt+del webcomic and the infamous miscarriage saga that ruined its reputation (at the time, anyhow) since while it was a dangerously brave topic to cover, people found it didn't fit the narrative whatsoever. Of course, this isn't even remotely as impactful, I'm just bad at comparisons.

The other issue for me and the one I and I assume others call toxic is a simple trigger that happens even if you decline Halsin's advances, where he will then still try to force himself into the relationship and your romanced companion (Shadowheart in this case, but I'd assume this happens with Astarion as well) will flirt with him and disapprove if you say no. That, regardless of what else (if anything) they change, needs to go.

Then in Act III there are again multiple options for outside pairings (Mizora, the Emperor, the twins - possibly more I haven't heard of), which some companions are okay with, some need to be talked into, and some will object to strenuously (not sure if any will actually break up with you?).

Development time is limited. There is a finite amount of development time. Resources are limited. Budget for recording new voice lines is limited. Time and budget that go to develop negotiations for a mono/poly romance track, or to develop a challenge/disagreement romance or friendship track, are time and budget that aren't going to the already-present tracks of "no romance agreement/friendship" and "yes romance agreement/romance." Those two RP tracks, already present in the game, are what I hope receive the limited time, resources, and attention the studio affords to Halsin.

He is not an origin. He is merely a recruitable companion, with many 50/50 choices on the player's part to not have him join the party at all, so his development time and budget will already be quite small since he is not an origin. And that makes sense! I would not want him to receive a larger portion in terms of ongoing development than Wyll, for example.

Halsin's development time might have already concluded, but if there is any chance for additions, the direction those additions go in, in my opinion, should not introduce more tracks, but should develop more content for his two already-present tracks in the game, neither of which involves any emotional blackmail, neither of which involves manipulation or abuse. And to address those feelings in players, budget and time going into somehow flagging with complete clarity for players in Act 1 that he's into free love and romancing others won't lock him out by the time he's available in Act 3 makes sense.

For me the problem continues to be the lack of options, which also affects the writing of other characters with very perverse results. They should give the player the option of poly or non-poly, and they should not affect other romances so openly (the shadowheart thing is quite annoying for example). That could add coherence to the character who right now seems a little crazy and, as I have said many times, toxic because he would have 2 clearly differentiated lines of dialogue. And of course it would open the option to a more suitable ending for players who have Halsin as a romance. Of course this would imply changes in the reactions of the other two characters involved in which, by the way, the cop makes no sense (my poor Astarion). But all this happens, and I hope that Larian reflects on it, for wanting to be transgressive without thinking and at the last moment.

I'm sorry I haven't come in these days to chat with the rest of Halsin's fans but I've been sick and with a lot of work

I see your point, but then they shouldn't have used him specifically to promote the extensive possibility of choice, player agency and unique stories.

At this point the only considered player agency choice is apparently that you can sleep with him in bear form. (And of you look up bear anatomy, it sounds in no way appealing).

That is a marketing and product issue, that needs to be addressed. Especially when you promote it as extraordinary fanservice.

To be honest, I saw the bear scene and it made me curious about Halsin.
Don't get me wrong, Halsin was interesting to me, I swear, not the scene itself. :P

The player has agency in choosing every advancement of every decision of the game. The player has agency in choosing to RP agreement with Halsin's free love ways, or in choosing to RP disagreement with his free love ways and breaking up. The player has agency in choosing to RP agreement with Gale's monogamous ways, or in choosing to RP disagreement with his monogamous ways and breaking up. The characters do have obligatory romance sexualities, in the case of Gale, monogamous sexuality, in the case of Halsin, free love sexuality.

This is how the player lacks agency: the companions are not playersexual,* the player does not have a switch to eliminate poly in the game and make everyone monogamous, player cannot toggle off the expression of attractions the characters feel for one another, the player only has the RP tracks developed by the studio available to them. These have been complaints in this thread.

None of these ways players lack agency is abuse, gaslighting, emotional blackmail, or toxic.

It makes the characters more complex and appealing that they are bound not by player imagination, but by intentional characterization. The characterization of the branching player character in response to these companions is a design decision. The decision to not make companions playersexual is a design decision, the decision to not include a toggle to turn off inter-character attraction in the game is a design decision, the choice to not have a toggle to eliminate poly characters from the game is a design decision.

I like that Halsin is characterized by internal motivations, beyond his use in promotional marketing. I hope we get to learn more about him, and I hope that arguing with him and challenging him about how he lives and loves is not the development focus, the way I hope that arguing with and challenging the other companions about how they live and love is not their development focus.

Edit 10/1: I've had this explained to me! I didn't understand that playersexual means simply, universally attracted to player character. I was using this term incorrectly. I'm not sure what to replace it with. But my statement here is just wrong lol, the companions are all playersexual.

Ehm.... have you seen Astarion's romance? Have you seen Gale's? Or Shadowhearts? Or even Karlach to some extent? Or the challenging and growth in Lae'zels? Even Minthara's.

All of them are being challenged in this aspect in different ways. It's what makes their romances compelling.

Halsin is the only romance who gets a pass. And again (and I know I sound like a broken record) - the issue is not the polygamy, but the unrealistic and toxic representation of RA.

Also, I will argue that these can absolutely be seen as being qualified for Halsin:

"Toxic Relationship Anarchy (RA)" combined with gaslighting refers to a situation where someone uses the principles or practices of Relationship Anarchy (RA) in a harmful and manipulative way to control or manipulate their partner(s). Relationship Anarchy, as mentioned earlier, is a philosophy that emphasizes personal autonomy, consent, and freedom within relationships. It typically promotes open communication and respect for individual boundaries.

When Relationship Anarchy is practiced in a toxic manner with gaslighting tactics, it can lead to a highly unhealthy and damaging relationship dynamic. Here's how this combination might manifest:

Abuse of Autonomy: In a healthy RA context, individuals have the autonomy to define and shape their relationships based on their own desires and needs. In a toxic scenario, one partner might exploit this autonomy to justify their controlling or manipulative behavior, making the other person feel like they have no say in the relationship.

Gaslighting as a Control Tactic: Gaslighting is used to make the other person doubt their perceptions, emotions, and the boundaries they've set. The gaslighter may employ tactics such as denying past agreements, minimizing the other person's feelings, or changing the rules of the relationship without clear communication.

Manipulation of Consent: Consent is a cornerstone of RA, but in a toxic situation, the gaslighter may manipulate or disregard consent. They might guilt-trip their partner into doing things they're uncomfortable with or coerce them into situations they initially rejected, using gaslighting to make them doubt their own decisions.

Undermining Communication: Gaslighters often undermine open and honest communication by making their partner feel that their thoughts and feelings are not valid. This can create an environment where the victim is afraid to speak up or share their concerns.

Who insist on strict polygamy come here to mock?
No, I'm really curious, what are you afraid of?
Halsin does not exist in reality, he can't have his own opinion. It doesn't make sense to defend his rights, he doesn't have them.
The players have real feelings. Who were broken and disappointed by his romance. It is for them you need worry and strive to meet their needs.
Your position is very strange and not tolerant.
How about the victims of this type of people like Halsin. It is very convenient to skip their posts and continue to protect the identity of the painted man.

It's okay, Halsin can be poly, he represents a minority of people.
Maybe he portrays them as weird, but he's allowed to be poly.

Look I could handle wierd.

Halsin being poly and having a bear partner. Stalking the fey wilds for some odd stuff. It would be wierd, but it would be fine.

This toxic representation of something that can actually be very lovely - nope.

Maybe something else will come, he is strange.

I am now imagining having a discussion with his bear lover gossiping about him XD