Originally Posted by Rosa
If you don't think it's worth then don't do it. I personally don't recruit all the companions simply because I don't like them. That's my choice. If you don't want to lose 3 companions because you choose to kill a bunch of Tieflings and Druids. That's your choice. I don't why they have to change it just so you don't have face the fall out of it.

I agree that there should be SOME fallout, but right now the existing fallout is just way too much, and currently the choice to side with Minthara is basically full blown chaotic evil rather than leaving any room to still be evil but be rather pragmatic at it. We should have an option to divorce the Tieflings away from the Goblins VS Druids conflict, they are the primary factor in making a lot of players write Minthara off (if they even knew she was a potential party member) from both a role play standpoint AND the sheer amount of content you are locking yourself out of with hardly anything to make up for that.

At present, we only have three (or four?) ways to resolve the conflict.

1) Side with Minthara and the Goblins and raid the Druid Grove. The Tieflings and the Druids die, you lose Halsin, Karlach, and Wyll and all of their associated content. You gain Minthara, and really nothing else because as far as I've read, succeeding in raiding the Grove doesn't actually matter in terms of narrative outcomes in Act 2 because of reasons.

2) Side with the Druid Grove. You lose Minthara and gain Halsin, and get to keep the Tieflings alive and retain access to all of their content along with Karlach and Wyll.

3) Leave for the Mountain Pass as soon as you tell Minthara about the Grove, in which the goblins raid the grove after you leave. You lose Halsin and meet up with Minthara at Moonrise later. You also keep Karlach and Wyll but IIRC the Tieflings still die, so Karlach's personal quest cannot proceed. I currently don't like how this option is the only way to recruit Minthara and keep Karlach and Wyll, because as it currently is, the people choosing this option are largely only doing it for metagame reasons rather than anything involving the narrative.

4) Take so long to resolve the conflict in any way that the Druids seal the grove off. Not sure what happens after this, but I assume this means the Tieflings die and you don't get to recruit Minthara, but I remember reading that you can still save Halsin.

---

I would add one more major option with several branching outcomes, to even out the consequences and add further choice to evil playthroughs. The major option would be to evacuate the Tieflings, like clearing out the crypt and then hiding the Tieflings in there until you are able to find a path through. The major branching outcomes from that would consist of the following:

1) Side with Minthara and the Goblins after evacuating the Tieflings from the Druid Grove, and then raid the Grove afterwards.
- You would get the option of passing a check to lie to her about how the Tieflings were already slaughtered by the Druids, because the Druids saw them as a liability after the earlier failed attack on the Grove that you witnessed. This makes her believe that there are less defenders at the Grove now, and that the artifact that she is also trying to look for is somewhere in the Druids' possession. Failing this check defaults to the outcome below.
- You can tell her the truth (or are forced to tell the truth or deny it if you failed to lie to her, of which choosing to deny that you're lying leads to her attacking you) about you directing the Tieflings out of the way, and that they didn't have the artifact with them when you questioned them about it. She immediately assumes that the artifact had been long seized by the Druids, but she would question why you would go out of your way to take the Tieflings to safety. You can tell her that you want to get back at the Druids for treating the Tieflings badly or you've taken potential defenders away from the Grove. Then you can pass a check to convince her that hunting down the Tieflings at this point would be a complete waste of everyone's time, and that you're working on recruiting them as potential future agents of the Absolute in the long run.
- Failing the check to convince her that you are trying to recruit the Tieflings makes her consider that she should still check the Tieflings anyway, causing her to order an attack the crypt right before the assault on the Grove. You can pass an insight check after failing the initial check or use Detect Thoughts to get a hint that she plans to do this behind your back. If you actually return to the Tieflings immediately afterwards, you can intercept the goblin party at the entrance of the crypt, and either fight them or convince them that you need them for the attack on the Grove instead of wasting their time here.

After the raid on the Grove, Minthara heads into the Kagha's room alone to look for the artifact there.
- The artifact will suddenly make itself known (you can assume later in the game that the Emperor is trying to influence Minthara at this point) by attempting to fly out of yours or Shadowheart's hands. You get a chance to snatch the artifact and conceal it before Minthara notices, in which she concludes that the artifact was never here. She leaves to report back to Moonrise.
- Failing the above check or making no effort to hide the artifact results in Minthara realizing that you had it all along, and she prepares to attack you. The artifact emits its pulse then, which stuns Minthara. You get the option of betraying and killing her while she's weakened then, or wait for her to recover. If you wait, she learns the truth from looking into your mind, and she can no longer hear the Absolute. She joins the party at this point, though you can convince her that you still wish to serve the Absolute after getting the tadpoles removed (and that you can personally deliver the artifact to the Absolute together with her, instead of handing it off to someone who might otherwise try to betray them to claim the credit for themselves), or tell her to consider that she probably doesn't need the Absolute if it only means she has to clean up after incompetent fools. If she sent that goblin party to attack the Tieflings, you can confront her about it if you stopped it beforehand, or she will mention that to you at this point (but it will be too late to save them).
- Halsin is killed offscreen afterwards. The goblin party in camp then occurs, with the Tieflings sneaking past the commotion offscreen if they are alive. If the Tieflings are dead, Karlach and Wyll refuse to talk to you during the party and disappear the following morning.

2) Side with the Shadow Druids and help them seal off the Grove after evacuating the Tieflings.
- This outcome results in the least amount of death overall. You can tell Minthara and the other leaders about this, though you may have to pass several checks to hide your involvement in the ritual and the fact that you hid the Tieflings. Failing the checks results in the Goblin camp turning hostile. Minthara and the Goblins report back to Moonrise, and they execute all of their prisoners including Halsin on their way out. No party happens. Minthara's events at Moonrise are slightly altered, you have no option to back up Minthara since the raid on the Grove never happened in this instance, and her captors immediately go into trying to brainwash her further, at which point you can rescue her.
- You can also just wipe out the camp anyway, and you would still be able to save Halsin at this point. The Tiefling party happens afterwards.
- If the Goblin leaders aren't killed or you don't report back to Minthara and the others while passing all the checks, the Tieflings end up being killed on the road.

Last edited by Saito Hikari; 02/10/23 09:29 AM.