Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion Shadowheart Romance and the Hidden Fetish - (Spoilers inside)

I can see how someone might interpret that comment 'a couple of other people and a certain big person' as her talking about the Halsin/drow scene but if you listen to her whole answer you can see that she is talking about something more personal to the Shadowhearts story opposed to a random brothel encounter i.e. the choice between saving her parents or not. (the big person is the giant manifestation of Shar)

And if you listen to the question being asked you'll hear that its about her favorite/emotional scene so I doubt that the brothel scene holds that much emotional weight for her.

https://streamable.com/07l78r - Both Jennifer and Devora are joking around but its clear that she is not a fan of bestiality like she says.


edit. Either way my issue with the decision to add the Mizora/Halsin scenes is and has always been with the writing. Me and Ninja might have disagreed in the past but I do agree that if anyone decides to write to the devs or on discord is to focus on the writing aspects of it. (tho don't be afraid to mix it up a bit with your opinion of what you expect in a romance/story)

Her going from I don't want to share/I don't want to be your spare lover/Initiating a breakup if you pursue someone else at the same time as her to a contradictory statement during the Mizora scene of her not wanting anything pure and loyal/not minding you sleeping around and opening the relationship.

And her talking about MC being her true love and spending the rest of her life with them to suddenly flirting and wanting to pursue Halsin.

That's actually hilarious. If I were to ever - somehow - find myself in a scenario like that, I'd break up right there and then. No questions asked. The intent is out, there's no salvaging it. Thankfully this is just a videogame and I can easily shrug it off as stupid oversight. Just like how we can't comfort her in any way during her final story cutscene.

Speaking of fetish, I have now considered it would be logical to romance Shadowheart and also bang Karlach. Karlach has weeks to live. Long term relationship (outside of Avernus) is out. And Karlach doesn't want to go back anyway. So the PC...and the half elf...should indulge Karlach as end of life care.

My theory is that they were given all the scenes disjointed, which made it impossible to see the larger context.

Yes, it's a writing and scripting collision/oversight isn't it?

If we follow the path where Tav actively romances Halsin and Shadowheart together it starts with Halsin declaring his interest and asking Tav to speak to Shadowheart first. Shadowheart alludes to being understanding of Tav's desires and "wants all the details" afterwards. This properly foreshadows what Shadowheart says in the brothel scene because Tav has now given Shadowheart a spicy and juicy recollection of their time spent with Halsin. Tav and Shadowheart proceed to take their relationship the next step and then the flirty banter happens in the context of Tav, Halsin and Shadowheart having a fully consensual agreement about their poly relationship. It all checks out.

But when bad writing/scripting causes this path to get mixed up with the path where Tav has shown no interest in including Halsin (or worse, actively rejected him) it instead just becomes creepy, cringey and toxic.

Pretty much this. These dialogues should only trigger if you agreed to it. Even if the whole idea of Shadowheart suddenly being fine with poly doesn't make any sense based on how she was written for the entirety of act 1 and act 2, at least it'd be more consistent with your act 3 choices then. EDIT: Same goes for Astarion to be fair. In both cases it feels pointlessly forced; why would the characters written as the most vulnerable and dependent be the ones that are okay with it? Halsin's entire inclusion as romance character just feels like a writing mistake.

I'll never know if they'll change it though because Halsin will never enter my party anyway. I'd rather have a hireling if it comes to it.

It truly is, and I find it telling that they are both (Shadowheart and Halsin) written by the lead writer. Was his team not able to call him out of any of this, when they were so attentive at other times?

Or did he simply ignore them? I am sure he is a talented writer, but I think perhaps they should consider leaving the companion writing to the others, who might be better and more nuanced in their writing.

I said it earlier but I'm convinced there is no way they're ever going to change this.

There's a big reddit thread about companion drow twin interactions and the way people celebrate the way Halsin and Shadowheart react in that situation is just disgusting to me. Clearly there's only a small section of us that actually think this is an issue which is such a shame. And the few people that tried to speak out against it just got downvoted and their comments hidden.

To be fair for the sake of Shadowheart all they have to do is change the triggers so this only happens if you had your one night stand with Halsin instead of declining him. Have her say no to his advances the same way you did if you said no, or easier yet, just have him actually respect your boundaries like he said he would if you decline him and remove the triggers entirely. He did an incredible job otherwise writing her story, there's a reason we are so invested.

That doesn't solve Halsin's overall romance writing compared to what people wanted, but at least it solves this issue.

It needs to be laid out in its' entirety and context like Michieltjuhh did with all the lines and actual choices where Tav declines Halsin clear for everyone to see.

That's what flipped my view on the entire thing, and I thank you for doing that.

Asking straight out to people if they think it is ok that Halsin propositions Tav for sex and gets declined. And then proceeds to team up with Tav's partner and the two of them together guilting Tav to try and coerce them into having sex with him anyway? That is so f****ing toxic that I had no other option than to completely change my standpoint when faced with that information. It's a virtual mic-drop!

And Larian can either stick with this writing and outright say that all their fancy words about consent and sensitivity means nothing, or they can do the right thing and change it. I am not deeply invested in Halsin or Shadowheart or any other companion, but I am deeply invested in making our world safer with teaching proper communication about boundaries and consent!

Edit: Of course, recognising the fact that it's entirely avoidable without having any effect on your story at all which is the saving grace for the whole thing. But it is still in poor taste that it CAN happen.

That's strange, because every time I've seen this dialog discussed, majority seemed to be frustrated by it. I suppose a lot of people just doesn't see this as the major issue and doesn't take it seriously, that's all.
Besides, as many stated before, this issue is pretty easily fixable: just add one trigger and everyone is happy, so I think there is a good chance Larian would adress it at some point.

That depends where you read it. Here the majority of people are discussed, but if you go to reddit that's a whole different story. I think someone posted something about this SH/Halsin/Twins situations recently and the majority of people didn't seem to bothered it.

I think I saw that post but typically I just see comments on other topics about it, sometimes it's a good discussion but I have also seen those who raise issues with the writing around this called incels, immature, cucks, liars or the like (in the post I think you're talking about that was going on in the replies). It's very hard to get anywhere after that. I prefer discussions here on the forums overall.

Exactly what incentive is there to change anything about this when this is how the people that want it changed are viewed?

I hope Larian listens and makes some changes to Shadowheart. I'm fine with the poly thing being there (said thing should only be available to her through her Shar path) but... you should at least be able to talk to her about not wanting to share her and having a more monogamous relationship. After said conversation make it so she disapproves of any attempts to hook up with any other people or horny bears. I really hope this happens because it makes her romance for me feel cheapened because all of a sudden she wants us to share ourselves with everybody else with not much say from you unless you ignore it. So please make some simple changes to her by just adding some simple dialogue to tell her your not all right with it or leaving the poly stuff locked behind her Shar path.

Give us more choice!

If 99% of people aren't bothered by disregard for sexual consent, then 99% of people are still wrong.

I will remain with the 1% who are right regardless. Through persistence and clear factual evidence and context I was convinced to change my standpoint on this, so other people can be convinced as well.

Agreed. But at the end of the day, if there's only a 1% of people bothered by this, the chances of Larian doing something are really low. Even if this situation ruins the character (at least ruins it for me) I don't think they'll do anything about it.

While we are definetly not the majority, I don't think our number are low either, since I've seen a lot of people complaining(I suppose it really depends on the place of discussion). Besides, Larian policy is to make content even for 1-2% of the players, so I think they might fix it eventually. On that note, I remind everyone to leave feadback on the matter.

This really came out of nowhere, she was written as monogamous for most of the game, and suddenly after final romance scene she is poly.

If you reject Halsin he should not try to butt in the relationship, maybe romance triggers are bugged.

I think the game does a poor job describing how companions really are (or the canonical point of views). I think a good way to show how they really are is through their approval system. Instead of just showing you they approved something, I think it'll be a good idea that in certain conversations that may reveal a hidden side of their personality, they can try to intervene and take 'control' of the conversation (basically switching from Tav to companion); that way you will learn something through them (maybe even give them special dialogues to show a hidden side of them).

You could still earn their approval, they'll show you an unknown side of them in a way that 'makes' sense and that could open the possibility of them talking about their preferences in the future, all of this while beign optional (you could simply choose not to switch from Tav to companion).

I dont know, it makes sense in my head. In fact I thought about this when interacting with the pain priest at the goblin camp. After seeing how she encouraged the priest to make my Tav 'repent', I just had to load a saved file and see her reaction when controlling her. Now when I see a companion having a 'very positive and encouraging' reaction, I got to load again and see how they act in that situation themselves.

Helps with my headcanon. lol

PS: But in all honesty, the game is done. I don't think they'll do much besides getting rid of bugs, making an Xbox version and fixing Karlach.