Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Shadowheart Romace Horribly Manipulated

Hello everyone, First, excuse my English since it is not my mother tongue.

Now, I really hope Larian actually reads the community feedback; even more, I hope they take into consideration these discussions. At first, I thought it was only me and I needed to bear with it, but apparently more people think the same about this topic.

So, what is it, Damian? Well, nothing more than manipulation and weird fetishism around Shadowheart's romance

And before anyone says I'm simping her or that we are making a big deal about this topic, allow me to explain myself.

1. This is supposed to be a full role-play game, which means you're going to get involved with the characters and the way their stories build according to your decisions (the player decisions), not the other way around (the NPCs and companions deciding the path).

2. It is true that every companion has their own ideals, thoughts, morals, etc., and through the story, they will "evolve". But what you decide, the moves you make, and the paths you follow are what determine how this development happens. So, one should expect their lines to have a correlation with the player's playthrough.

Keeping that in mind, let's gather some evidence about Shadowheart:

1. She literally says she doesn't want to get involved with other people besides you. She prefers to step aside before being treated like a snack.

2. However, she is so "open-minded" to the idea of sharing you with Halsin (suspicious).

3. She says she doesn't want to share you with the twins, not before your first encounter. Translation: My act is over, but once it is completed, I can forget about not sharing you with others and unleash the Shadowhore within.

4. I saw on another post that after her story line is completed, the party conversation box shows up (without having a conversation about it) where she flirts with Halsin (Halsin again, um, double suspicious). What happens to all the "you and only you" BS? I mean, if you decided to include Halsin in your romantic life, if you cheated on SH with Mizora or with a companion, I wouldn't expect otherwise, but if you decided to stay mono, then what is all that flirting crap about? "I need you to fill my heart and help me find my path, but once that's done, I need someone else to fill my p**y and... hello? Bear d**k > yours"

I don't know about other people, but this is an RPG, so I like to explore everything, which also means NPC voice lines and their consequences. If you get to the twins and reject them, SH remains silenced. I mean, okay, a little disappointed, but whatever. If you accept, she will sound excited (that's okay, like, are you the only one who can have fun? Come on). But if you happen to have Halsin in your squad, he will stick his nose and propose a fivesome (no Halsin, no means no, I already told you, damn it). And here is the pinnacle of everything (the final proof that shows how hard SH simps for Halsin), she will say right away that she is totally in: "I won't pretend the thought hasn't crossed my mind once or twice... or more than that."

Oh boy, can you wait for me to respond? Then you can go into Shadowhore mode if I accept the proposal. You didn't say anything when the twins said they wanted both of us. Oh! But because Halsin is the one who's talking now, you jump without hesitation. And I'm like, okay, just reject that wild bear, and she will accept that you want a normal romance, but no, she literally disapproves, like, WHAT? How does this fit with the role play I'm following? You can totally say someone manipulated all that and orchestrated things to fit their nasty fantasies: "Fuck your decisions and all the things she said to you, her arc is over; nothing of that actually happened."

So, no matter what decisions one makes, we are following the same path in the end.

And yeah, yeah, "just ignore the twins, never ever speak with Halsin, etc." But still, you already know what will happen the second you do that. Is it like having my drunk friend over? I could hide all the beers, so yeah, he ain't getting buzzed, but that doesn't mean he suddenly decided to control himself or live a life sober. The moment he sees a beer, well, you know. So, it feels the same.

And here are some final thoughts.

1. If she was actually promiscuous without hesitation, then make it clear, because "only you and me" and not being just a "snack" ain't helping at all. (Yeah, you were kind of forced to have sex with other Shar followers, but apparently that wasn't your decision.)

2. You are building a story, and that means everything, including if you decide to have a lover. You want to have a trio? So be it; go on. You want to remain loyal? Good for you. You want to fuck the smallest and biggest of creatures? I mean, that's your playthrough. But please, Larian team, respect the player's decisions and their story development, along with the companions (of course).

And don't get me wrong, I really like this game; it is so good that I'm fully involved in it. That's awesome; you are buying the whole experience. Or, at least, most of it...

Was it so hard to wait for my response so SH could express herself? Was it so hard to make Halsin respect you from the very beginning? Was it so hard to make SH remain supportive of your mono relationship?

I know Larian is fixing a lot of bugs, among other things. But I really hope this is one of those.

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But anyway, I really hope someone in Larian's team reads this or some other thread about it (along with the other characters problems and bugs).

Now, Ima head out. Sorry for my poor English once again, but I think the message is clear. Thanks for reading.

Hard agree on this, they at least should've added option in some conversation early in act 3(around her skinny dip scene timing) where you could say that you prefer full mono or something. That would place flag that you decided to go full mono and all that "interesting" things with Halsin wouldnt happen, also Mizora/Haarlep/Emperor flings would result in her massive disapproval if you ve chosen to go mono.

Her and Halsin are absolute messes. The Polyamory is so horribly represented and entered into the game.

Halsin is so aggressive about it too, like it completely creeps me out. I'm a polyamorous person and it's actually appalling how it's treated in game.

I've heard from others who have "romanced" Halsin that he acts all romantic and monogamous at first but then suddenly is like "btw this is just sex and I wanna have other partners. Do you have another partner i can join you with?" Its extremely manipulative. There's no romantic ending for you with him and I'm pretty sure that's what a lot of Halsin simps want.

I mean he never should have been added in act 3 anyway, given we already have a druid and he has no quest. But they needed to provide a sex doll I guess.

I 100% agree. An optional poly setting is essential for Shadowheart, Astarion and Halsin fans alike.

It's because the writing has been put on railroad to get the story to all the sexual situations they came up with and decided to throw into the game.

In their rush they never properly considered how to write the scenarios where a player disagrees in a consistent and organic way. It is just assumed that everyone are always going to choose to enthusiastically agree. It leads to these really problematic and toxic situations where companions don't respect the player's consent, assume consent (hello rape culture, so happy that you made an appearance here) and act in a really inconsiderate manner around what someone is comfortable with in sexual situations.

I'm really hoping they fix it because it makes me very uncomfortable. They also need to give us an option to refuse Halsin joining our camp at the end of act 2. If the player doesnt want him there, it shouldn't be forced on us. It takes away our agency. He's the only companion you can't refuse and I dunno why.

I'm very much convinced this will never be changed. Apparently this is just what her writer his into based on the character in DoS2 I'm told he wrote and he can't separate his fetishes from his writing. He probably gets off to it and sees himself as Halsin.

It's like the easiest fix in the world just change some flags, make it so the swimming banter with Halsin only triggers if you romance both of them, remove the disapproval flag if you decline Halsin joining and only trigger her dialogue about dreaming about him if you accept it. And despite this and knowing people are unhappy about it they still have not changed anything. It's clearly not an issue in Larian's eyes which is a shame that they would allow something in the game that just ruins a character for people. The bait and switch after her telling you she wants to spend her life with your character at some secluded cottage, says she wants to have kids with your character, tells you you're the most important thing in her life, just for her to betray all of that the second you decide to bring Halsin into your party is just disgusting.

I meant to edit not double post

I mean it looks like an easy fix ...
only if Larian listens to this.

I've also heard that about this writer, it's strange. I have no issue with polyamory, but it should be a player choice. The way it's done with Halsin is so shoehorned in and actively alters Astarion and SH to force it to fit. It comes across as a non consensual experience. I'm not entirely convinced either of them are okay with an open relationship anyway. And if they are, the way its handled is strange.

The problem I have with their justification of Shadowheart being poly is that it stemmed from her upbringing by her fellow Shar worshippers. She says casual sexual relationships were "encouraged." But how do we know this wasn't just another way in which she was brainwashed/coerced into? And if that isn't the case, why does she have a problem with you simply kissing another companion? Why is it only Halsin that she's suddenly open to whatever with? And is he seriously looked at the same way a manipulative half devil (Mizora) and prostitutes(drow twins) are? It just feels different with him being a companion and having forced banter. The swim scene was meant to be private and special, then they went and sullied it with him magically knowing about it. And there's nothing I can do about it, aside from outright killing him.

According to others, if you aren't dating Astarion or SH, just Halsin only he doesn't show any interest in them, nor they with him. How great it is to be forced into this if choosing to date either of them...

Also, when I tell Halsin no that doesn't mean it's okay for him to start flirting with SH trying to coerce a poly relationship. He has no boundaries and I'm sick of it, sick of him. I can't even tell him he can't join my party end of act 2, he just inserts himself in.

Some have used the excuse that she's only fine with Halsinn because the other companions are a "threat" to you and SH. But she doesn't even ask what your intentions are with them or even Halsin? She just assumes how involved you are with them? Like what if I am having a casual hookup with one/some of them? Why shouldn't I be allowed to do this if she is indeed poly/open?

They specifically made companions playersexual as to not restrict anyone. Why isn't this the same with relationship preference. Why not make them all polyamorous then?

The player should be able to either accept or reject whoever and whatever they want. The game is made for the player no? At the very least make polyamory optional. But where it stands right now, it is anything but optional, on the contrary. For a game that prides itself on player choice this is unacceptable.

You're suggestion to add tags could work too though. Just needed to vent in that last post of mine lol This whole situation is very frustrating.

More people need to see this and it needs to be changed.

I haven't gotten there yet. My thought is, why is only Halsin okay? What if I want say Shadowheart and Karlach?

The theory here is, Karlach is going to either die or go to Avernus, and nobody is surviving a pregnancy in Avernus without a diabolical contract or 3. So my PC and Shadowheart might as well give Karlach all the love we can on her way out.

I imagine it's probably because having two females at the same time is some sort of "male gaze" issue.

Probably. Even so, however, there's a good bit of compassion here. At least for Karlach specifically.

I understand ypur reasoning, but it can also make it sound like you are doing this out of pity for her situation. Karlach deserves better than just pity sex, if it is to happen it should be because you truly want her, regardless of her condition.

Hi there, we already have a long active thread on this topic over at https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=908714. To cut down on duplicate discussion I’m going to lock this thread, but folk should feel free to join in the conversation over there.