Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General Killed by Bad Writing

I get it now -- Gale is a writer's joke. He is a way to blow up the entire story before it lapses into incoherence.
In Act I you could write your own character and play in a well-developed sandbox. But Act II forces you to choose between its rails or the Gale Doomsday option. To play on, you probably need at least two of the following (a) schizophrenia, (b) homicidal tendencies, or (c) a yearning to be dominated by powerful women. Alternatively, you could play as a hireling -- an empty vessel transporting you through a few more hours of forgettable AAA gaming. My guess is most writers would choose the Gale option.
I was hoping BG3 would be more than that. But, based on what I see on Twitch, it seems like the financial incentives are to either keep it as is or turn it into even more of an outrageous dating simulator.

I'm not in agreement, and I think this is a very shallow take on a complex game. In any other game they wouldn't even let you take the self-destruct option because you would be on rails and there would be some rube goldberg reason it didn't work or wasn't feasible - like there would be 100 Orphans stapled to the outside of the brain or some dumb thing. (This would not stop me personally, but I digress...)

Here you get an achievement for at least exploring that path and understanding it's not a great option and here are the consequences. Same thing that happens when you mouth off to a God.

A more thoughtful analysis would recognize that Mystra's little plan wasn't very well thought out.

The entire dating aspect of Bg3 is overblown - people reveal themselves in what they choose to engage in. People reveal themselves further in what they haven't engaged in but have heard from others but haven't verified themselves because ...reasons?

1 its a good option that gives you an ending and lets you start a new character... okey not a great ending

2 just since you asked I'll take option "(c) a yearning to be dominated by powerful women." please

I disagree completely with OP take and refused to make counter argument because the sub-quality of said opinion.

WTF did I read there? Sorry op, but I don't think, you have really understood the game.
And yeah, I'm not even arguing here.

Yeah i have seen alot of people annoyed at this including a few youtube content creators.

Just ignore the fanboys on this forum. They will just instinctively attack you and also probably report you to the mods if you even dare critise the game or even slightly say anything that is not politically correct. Complete Fwits mate.

I've seen people rattle off about "bad writing" in this game, but that's one of the worst examples I've seen.

Are you the poster that went on about "sexual deviancy" ?

I think what you're saying is that Act III is so bad that the writers put Gale in as a way to end the story after Act II. Because the writers didn't feel like Act III was ready for release? So it was their way of ending their story while the story was still good?

The thing is streaming isn't the same as playing because you are mostly concentrating on how many followers like your cat and skimming the plot

I understand your confusion

Speak for yourself, I enjoyed Act 3 from a story standpoint *shrug*

I DO wish it was more functional.

lol, I'm not speaking for me there. I was just trying to understand what was being said in the original post. That was me trying to rephrase what was being said so that I could see if I interpreted the initial post correctly.

You have been on the forum for three days. In that time, you:
1. Have made baseless and insulting accusations against the moderation team.
2. Have ignored a different moderator's statements in blatant display of mockery.
3. Insulted the community and called them Fwits.
4. Have the exact same writing style and topics of interest as a previously banned user.

Congratulations, you are my first non-bot ban. Reason: Flaming and probable ban evasion.
BEGONE

Act II on Rails? There's quite a lot of choices available and can affect the way the game plays out in Act II. The claim that Act I is a sandbox is just as confusing.

Try playing FFVXI for game that's on rails, gorgeous looking and I did enjoy it but the only choices you get is speccing your character's skills.

There are no random encounters, each area has a finite number of quests in a set number of locations. Once you've defeated or charmed your way through Act I there's no reason to stay there, you can't create a settlement, find more monsters to slay etc., if it was a sandbox that wouldn't be the case. The game's longevity will be players trying different builds and origin characters and choosing different paths in all 3 acts.

The Gale story line ties in with Forgotten Realms lore and I liked it, can't agree with any part of your post. The "what I see on Twitch" sounds like you haven't even played it yourself and explains why you think any of it is on rails or a sandbox.

I think it was cool to have one way to complete the game in Act 2. Not the perfect ending, kind of disastrous with all those mindflayers running around loose actually, but logical given the timing of grouped BBEGs and Gale's well foreshadowed condition.

There was much build up drama (which was partially derailed by multiple unwanted romance proposals in V1.0) and an aftermath that flowed to the end of Act 3.

Dunno about domineering women. Aylin's antics are hardcoded to ensure conflict with Kethric. Sure it'd be nice to call her out more but plot protection. Mystra takes firm backseat to MC's opinion if approval is high (so easy). Perhaps you're talking about Gale MC?

As evil there is no option to "fix" the shadow before moving on but that's a minor plot point that I'm personally okey with... apart from that I can't see locked out choices

[Disclaimer: There are spoilers and sorry for the length

I don’t think I am a troll. I think I am someone who very much likes this game and has high hopes for it. I know there are serious problems with the story and I know that many people realize this. My guess is that no one knows it better than the writers at Larian. That’s usually how it works. My concern is that I am a lunatic in the wilderness, and that BG3 will become a dating simulator or goblin punching arcade because that is what generates the most positive responses on Twitch. I suppose this post was my feeble attempt to prevent that.]

I have tried twice to write a character that makes it to Act III. One is only there because he fudged a key choice and so I have no interest in continuing with that plot line. I have another that cannot proceed past the Astral Plane because there is no way that he would side with a Mind Flayer under the circumstances presented. I am not saying Act III is bad, I am saying there is no coherent way for my characters to reach it. They can only proceed as self-aware game pieces following game-logic.

I don't think I am any less of a fanboy than most of the people on this forum. I would say that, in general, the dialogue is quite good and the voice acting is exceptional, but the story arc is a disaster. My hope is that a dark urge playthrough will make more sense, but that's not how I would prefer to play the game.

Here are some issues with the writing**:
(1) The plot reversals for Lae'zel and Shadowheart are whiplash-inducing. It's a reach for you to argue that the writers laid the groundwork for those twists. They were simply necessary as 'game-logic'.

(2) I can't say much about the other characters. There isn't much depth to Gale and Karlach's story in Acts I and II -- Gale is a doomsday device and Karlach is a dating simulator. Characters like these do not exist outside of video games. Wyll's story seems decent but the cambions are wildly implausible.

(3) Mizora and Raphael are written as high school bullies. The first time I met Raphael he said "The mouse smiled brightly; it outfoxed the cat! Then down came the claw and that, love, was that." I sincerely think you can find better poetry in the average public restroom. If a student submitted this I would ask for a re-write. Just in case you are not seeing it, the problem -- at least one problem -- is that he ends with an artificial device to force the rhyme and meter. Surely the writers could have come up with something better. The portrayal of these characters is cringe-inducing.

(4) Cruelty is not a punchline. I am not a prude -- I do not mind cruelty in the punchline. But there must actually be a set-up and punchline for the joke to land. If you kick the squirrel because squirrels are jerks, that could be funny. But if you simply kick the squirrel without provocation, that is just cruel. I feel like the game often does not see the distinction.

(5) I sincerely do not mind the BDSM theme, I just think they are laying it on too thick (I affirmatively support it being in a fantasy game, I just question the decision to put it nearly everywhere in the game).

(6) It is generally correct to choose the most outrageous option. I suppose this is because the game is meant to be funny (and it is – the Volo surgery scene is among the game’s best). But it doesn’t allow for player created characters unless those characters know they are in a game world. No reasonable person would allow Volo to operate on them, or jump into an oubliette, but the “Player One” character always knows that is the objectively correct choice because Player One knows it is in a game. My point is that, while it is nice to have the option of making an outrageous choice, it is bad writing to consistently reward the character for behaving in such an implausible way.

(7) I am sure there is more but my specific problem is the following. At the very beginning the story told me: “First things first: we need supplies, shelter, and most of all, a healer”. The healer is to remove a mind flayer tadpole from our brains. We agreed that it was bad to have a worm eating our brain and I find this to be an eminently reasonable motivation for my characters. That this is our top priority is reinforced throughout all of Act I.

It is very important to my character that he agreed to end his own life if no progress is made on the main quest. Early in the game Lae’zel said “If the sickness does not pass come dawn, I will end us all.” In the Druid Grove I swore an oath to Nettie that I would take Wyvern Poison if I started to turn.

The guardian will not identify themself and is vague about their conflict. I find out that, not only are they lying about their appearance, they are, in fact, a mind flayer. I am not terribly surprised by this since there must have been a reason for their lack of transparency, they have been communicating with me telepathically, and they are encouraging me to eat more brain worms. In short, a creature whose modus operandi is mind control and deception is asking me to trust him despite the fact that he has demonstrably deceived me. My answer is no. And I am not the one who is crazy.

I know who the Githyanki are and I trust their motives. They will probably kill me but that is the morally correct course of action at this point. The game has provided no progress in the main quest to remove the tadpole and so I must honor the oath I took in the Druid Grove. Certainly I cannot take my brain worms into Baldur’s Gate. I claim that, unless Orpheus has a cure, any good-aligned character must snuff it at this point. We are out of options. But like a blinking green door in DOOM, the game was clearly telling me that I should trust the guardian for the sake of progressing the story. Only a self-aware game piece can choose that option (and it chooses it largely because there is no other option).

That is what I meant by “Killed by Bad Writing.’ I don’t believe the game provides any logical and principled path forward other than to die in Act II. I must choose their rail or end the game.*** So now I am trying a character that has no logic or principles. She just returned camp to find that Alfira wants to join the party. Oh happy day! Give me a sandbox with Minsc and Alfira and I might quit my job. But of course I am now looking at her disemboweled corpse. This is how Larian wants me to play the game…

**I left out the fact that major characters are introduced at the very end of Act II. This is way too late to be introducing Orin and Gortash.

***Larian likes to jokingly kill you with a game menu. Vlaakith will end your game if you insult her but not if you betray her in a quest of existential importance. That may be good game logic but it is poor writing.

I still do not understand why you have a problem with blowing things up, even if the game will go on if you will not. If you are RPing a character that would have done that - perfect. Do it. The option to end the story there and then is great, imo.

But! It's obviously a GIGA stupid move. Unalive yourself just to kill the Big Brain - the only thing that stops transformation in those infected? This is not a choice a good-aligned character would've made. That's a move a chaotic evil worshipper of Bane would do though, - murder on a grand scale, self-sacrifice to rejoin your God in the afterlife.

After that it is revealed what exactly is controlling the Absolute, so yes, you MUST go to BG to continue searching for ways to get rid of the tadpole by dealing with the Big Brain. BTW There are infected in the city already, presence of few more will not change anything.

Bigger issue is the Emperor - my character did not trust him one bit, since the very start. During the fight in the Astral Prism, where Orpheus is under attack and the Emperor is losing - obviously I should not trust some mindflayer (who is revealed the first time) that says "it's me who have been helping you! Save me against these githyanki!", it's only logical to assume we are being deceived again - and mindflayer is just manipulating through the tadpole to save his hide. So naturally, I attacked and killed the Emperor, prompting "game over". Like WTF? Which idiot would actually trust an illithid in this situation? Here is where the game is forcing you to reaload. And the cringe explanation how he was hunting criminals to eat their brains, wearing a hoodie and all, with nobody around realizing what he was is a huge fail. He turns out to be a scum anyways. I did not progress far enough to see if I can f**k him up, but I'm trying for sure.

Also, some shoemaker's son stealing the Crown of Karsus from Mephistopheles vault? Really? Load of BS. Raphael couldn't do it, other Archdukes couldn't do it, but Gortash could. Also, How did they apply the crown to the brain? How did they even get anywhere close to one of the most dangerous beings in the universe that can literally read your mind and know your intentions, with nothing to prevent it (I think, according to canon, you can not shield your mind from big brain). Another fail, imo.

Actually elder brains in 5E are kinda weak. Larian invented a lot of bs for BG3 but by rules elder brains are kinda defenseless and rely on mind flayers to weaken enemies so that it can even attempt to read minds or implant suggestions. On their own they cant really read minds or dominate others unless in close proximity.

Any of the giths red dragons would in most cases wipe the floor with the brain.

act 1 is the only good act, it rewards choices with new interactions that lead to other new interactions, acts 2 and 3 are linear as hell and involve half the RP, the more towards the end you go the less RP and agency you have. Until you get to the end and pick two endings that are in no way influenced by any choice you ever made troughout the game.
Act1 was an ad, a very good one.