Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion Shadowheart Romance and the Hidden Fetish - (Spoilers inside)

Nah Shadowheart is not manipulating the MC (lets not give Beans a heart attack ) its just bad writing. Her story/romance progression is basically this. (a joke)

I'm being secretive don't talk to me - You are kinda interesting - I think I really like you - I'm willing to betray my god for you - Our first time being intimate has to be special - You're the love of my life I want to spend the rest of it with you - Hi Halsin :*

That and the Mizora situations are the only times she strays from her romance story otherwise. It's still worth finishing really, just don't bring Halsin into your party, go to the drows or cheat on her. It may lack a bit in content in act 3 but all of them do, it's wholesome regardless.

The only time that's hinted at is in the only two scenarios that don't make sense. She doesn't ever claim sleeping around casually was the norm and encouraged in the Sharran cloister except if you sleep with Mizora, and we know she doesn't act in character if you sleep with Mizora so anything written there is just written to make these two inconsistencies (Halsin/Mizora) make more sense.

If she was into casual sex and orgies, she should've been written as such. Any attempt to get her to do anything in act 1 or 2 is rebuked with her saying she'll take her chances waiting. She's even embarrassed about her attraction to you if you read her mind in act 1, allowing you to give a more wholesome reply than just "lets have sex lol". And all of this is despite it making most sense during act 1, because you're in a life or death situation (death by combat or ceremorphosis both being a serious threat) and her still being fully devoted to Shar and thus devoted to the teachings, including the casual sex part.

However, even if that were true (it is hinted at during some Gale/Shadowheart banter in act 1 that she prefers one night stands, which is consistent with her dialogue if you kill the Nightsong, though it's evident it's not encouraged but if anything looked down upon by Shar), it still wouldn't make sense she never acts upon it until the point where she no longer believes in Shar but believes in you instead. It should've happened in act 1 then. But that's not how she's written, therefore the act 3 scenarios are inconsistent, even with the rest of her act 3 romance.

As Dark Urge she claims you were the one who convinced her to spare the Nightsong. This means that you convinced her to betray Shar, the goddess that set her upon a path of lying and manipulating in the first place. If she were ever doing it, the jig is up at that point, and she's fully devoted to you, trusting that you can lead her to a better future than Shar, a literal goddess, could. This remains consistent throughout act 3, where she remains fully devoted to you all the way to the end. She even stays with you if you're a mindflayer. All this love, trust and devotion she gives you makes her claim that she wasn't surprised you'd cheat on her with Mizora complete nonsense. On the one hand she says she has full faith in you, wants to start a family with you and be with you forever and suddenly, in a single scenario that strays from all the other ones, she says she expected you to cheat on her. And it makes her not just being okay with, but actively wanting to share you make no sense either, because the only time that would logically happen would be in act 1 and 2, where she is still devoted to Shar, if they want to keep that narrative. But she isn't, she's against it then already.

She says that it was encourage to get to know each other when you cheat on her with Mizora, but before that, I'm not sure if that was act 2 or act 3, she says that it was PROHIBITED, but some cultist would still find the way to meet each other. So she is either lying in Mizora after scene (which would be in character, she doesnt want to show she is hurt by you cheating) or writer kinda forgot how he wrote her in previous dialogues . And on her dark path romance she says that the only way you can see each other is in secrecy, because bending the rules is kinda fine.

And about romances being disgusting, Karlach, Wyll, Lae'zel are all very wholesome (not sure about Gale, and Astarion kinda depends), one of them even ends in marriage

I mean Shadowheart romance is very wholesome for my taste. Its just that 1 thing connected to Halsin, which is reason why this thread was even created in the first place. I personally view Mizora cheat reaction more like : "I dont like it but I cant afford to lose you", based on her dialogue and reactions she is clearly disappointed and you feel like shit after that.

She sounds too okay with the cheating part and only sounds not okay with the not asking before part. I also don't buy it that she was expecting it judging by her entire demeanor otherwise - heck, something I didn't mention before, but her father even says she looks at you the same way her mother looked at him, and I doubt they were expecting each other to cheat. And the whole dialogue about it being encouraged in the Sharran cloister is, as has been pointed out, also inaccurate based on previous actions and dialogue.

So basically, there's not many redeeming factors to the writing in that scenario. It just exists in its current state to make the Halsin/drows situation more plausible, but three inaccuracies in a 100 hour story don't make for a good inaccuracy.

To me, these 3 scenarios make about as much sense as playing a full good guy/girl playthrough and then at the very last second stabbing the Emperor/Orpheus/Karlach and taking control of the Netherbrain. Like, "look at me, I spent 100 hours being the best possible person, but SYKE, it was all to betray you at this moment!"

The 'Hi Halsin' at the end got me laughing. lol

@rokiiz



Yes, that's what I meant. I'd like to know that BEFORE cheating.

For example, you were complaining about she being insecure/asking 3 times if Tav wants to be with her. Why don't make that the 2nd time she asks, she'll say something like:

"I'm not as pure as you might think", then proceed to make the revelation.

I've never seem the part where she says it's prohibited, tho.



Yeah, I admit it might be a me thing. This is the first game in which I 'romance' and the experience hasn't been pleasant. lol

I'd be fine with that, it'd make for a good dialogue with the Dark Urge where you can then also admit to.. certain things in your past. However, the problem remains. Just like Dark Urge, she's an amnesiac, she evidently is no longer that person and was manipulated into it in the first place, the records in the House of Grief state she always strayed from their teachings so they had to repeatedly memory wipe her. So it doesn't make sense to write her - in those few specific scenarios - to suddenly be like that again, especially after all the positive influence you had over her, since it's already written in the game that so long as she has motive to stray from their teachings, she will. Which is very much proven by the fact that she betrays Shar for you.

She would have to be completely rewritten in act 1 for any of this to make sense, which isn't remotely worth it compared to just rewriting the Halsin/drows/Mizora inconsistencies to fit the other multiple hours of her story.

She was getting brainwashed her entire life... But everything points out to that she wants to just be with your character until Halsin incident though? Even in the end she will stay with your character no matter what if you chose so(Squid or not, only if yo u do not finish her quest or chose shar path she leaves).If Halsin thing gets patched out somehow it will be perfect romance at least for me(Again I tolerate Drow thing, because its Tav who initates it and she is ok with that and Mizora seems tolerable, I didnt do any of this anyway).

I think you're wrong about the part of her doesn't remembering, in the Mizora scene she says that even with the little she can remember, she can tell us stories. So, I wouldn't say she doesn't remember. It sounds, if anything, that she got lots of sexual experience.

But to be fair, I'm saying this from the top of my head, and don't got time rn to double check that scene. I may be wrong.

I meant that is 1 of the 3 things :
1.) It was encouraged in her cult, however she doesnt show any interest in anyone except your character and Halsin(Again thats why post was created).
2.) She doesnt want to show she is hurt by you cheating, considering her previous actions and her general attitude in that scene this could be the case.
3.) Bad writing
All 3 is tolerable and fine things(except for Halsin of course) to me

It is mentioned during the Mizora scene, yes. Now, I consider the Mizora dialogue only written to fit the Halsin narrative, so I'm taking it with a grain of salt.

But lets assume it is correct, she still only remembers the deeds. What she doesn't remember is that she kept straying, because that is what they kept wiping from her memory; the part of her that didn't want any of it. She was - for all intents and purposes - being , repeatedly, if we're going to take the Mizora chat as canon. (I think you all know what word is there but some might not want to read it)

If that's what they want to imply, they're free to, I'm not averse of talking about heavy subjects. It still doesn't fit the person she becomes with you throughout the story, therefore she still shouldn't be okay with sharing or you cheating, by the time you get to act 3. Your Dark Urge butler tells you some pretty disturbing things about your own past. The knowledge of you doing those things doesn't make you that person now.

Add this little inconsistency as well:

If Tav is not romancing anyone, why can't Tav and Shadowheart have casual sex if Shadowheart is so open to spontaneous and casual sex? It is established in act 1 that she is attracted to Tav, and non-romance Shadowheart isn't even attracted to someone else that she could hook up with (Karlach possibly).

What's stopping Tav and Shadowheart in act 3 from just having a ons if Tav is not involved with anyone else creating any complications or drama?

It's a complete oxymoron: I am open to casual sex, but only if I am already in a relationship. If I am single I am not.

The problem with Mizora is that you have control over situation and this happens only if you want to, Shadowheart's reaction to this is ok. But you cant for some reason control situation with Halsin(bugged or not) with their banter and drows fivesome.

I still think the reaction is completely out of character. She's fully devoted herself to you, spited her goddess for you - the only support she's ever known before she meets you, it is claimed by the Dark Urge butler that you are the only person she's ever trusted, and yet she never expected that devotion, that trust, to be returned? I find that hard to believe. I mean, obviously your actions if you do sleep with Mizora speak for themselves, however she should be a lot more upset and very much not okay with it.

The severe implications make more sense than that, because at least that scenario isn't the only time it is implied, even if the other times are a lot more vague.

Again as I said before, she creates impression that she is disappointed well(at least to me), especially last line about "I'd rather see you happy than guilty". Anyways you can avoid this and probably should unless you want something spicy. I d consider this option on the same row as jsut surrendering Shadowheart to Viconia, just for fun why not or just shoot her parents b4 she can reach them in house of grief option.

I know that it's avoidable, if they do change it I'd be none the wiser (other than reading patch notes). I just think it's out of character. I still think it's odd that she's okay (disappointed, but seemingly only because you didn't ask) and expecting of you to cheat on her. Some other companions will break up on you, so while it is still something people will generally only do before pressing F8, consistency is still nice. Imagine you handed over Shadowheart to Viconia and her reaction is "Thank god I'm finally rid of you and back in Shar's lovely embrace". It's not something you'll ever logically do in an actual playthrough unless you're roleplaying someone really.. interesting, but the reaction should still fit the character.

Ugh, the story that seems to show if you read this implications as you did is even darker and drow/halsin/mizora fits somewhat to her coping mechanisms…? Unconscious “I feel undeserving of Tav’s love so I’ll self sabotage” Like, when you meet
It shows SH as being soft and rather emotional there, not into casual sex or something.

They could technically rewrite it into that, but that's - as far as I know - how Astarion is written to some extent. I think he's okay with it so he won't lose you. But Astarion also wasn't very hard to get initially, he sleeps with you freely in act 1 already. And Gale can also be bullied into a 5-some with the Drow twins and Halsin, where he sits on the sideline as you get it on. Halsin in general just makes everything look bad.

If we were going by the self sabotage just to keep you narrative then she should give you approval for declining Halsin. As it stands, she initiates and encourages the drow twins hookup, disapproves of you wanting only her and not Halsin together with them, dreams of sleeping with him, and encourages a relationship with him. That's not self sabotage because she thinks she's undeserving of you.

As for the meeting with

How does she encourage drow-twins encounter? She literally says IF YOU ARE COMFORTABLE SO AM I. And you can say nvm changed my mind and you wont get hit by disapproval. Drows with Halsin is another story obviously.

If your partner told you "Now there's an idea.. if you're comfortable sharing, so am I." in a suggestive tone to someone suggesting a 4-some, you wouldn't consider that as encouraging?