Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion Shadowheart Romance and the Hidden Fetish - (Spoilers inside)

Well you are in a brothel discussing an agreement with sex workers, she is just faster that Tav to understand what are they talking about. It also procs only you talk to them first time. Personally she rejected them first time and if you come there 2nd or 3rd time after first visit(regardless of outcome) there is only your character that initates it. Of course it could be changed same as Mizora fling, but I wont call it "first" priority in that case(Dont get me wrong, I would prefer her to be less comfortable sharing too. I would like some dialogue option for her to discuss all that poly shit and just have option to tell her that I want her and only her, so my character will get massive disapproval or even break up if I happen to do things to Mizora for example). First priority for me is still Halsin with his vile things(personally for me the worst part is that this creeper somehow knows about your intimate moment with swimming and I cant stop imagining him spying in squirell form or something. Disapproval thing stinks as much too though).

I think it'd be odd for her to say that even if you said you wanted it, but right now she says it while all you are is inquisitive as to why they're there. Remember, you're not even in the brothel for the usual business, you're there to chat with Voss and Raphael, and potentially more quest NPCs. Of course, now I'm sort of reaching, you DID actively start talking to prostitutes, but in my opinion it should be you saying yes first, and her reaction doesn't fit character (after the swimming scene).

You have though. Any situation where you do anything with another companion, such as kissing Wyll after your dance, and can talk about poly. She's not okay with it. Done deal. They just retconned it for no reason in act 3.

As for the swimming thing, she does talk about still having sand in her hair the morning after, heavily implying that the rest will know what happened, so him knowing I don't mind as much as the dialogue itself. Just imagine how cute it'd be if he asked what happened (with some implication he knows) and she says you two ran off to make sand castles. Instead, we get this.

I'm not sure if it was in this thread or somewhere else that I brought it up but yeah you are right. If you actually pay attention and read between the lines, the implication of her brainwashing is darker than you might think.

But at the same time I think you guys are reading a bit too much into it (coping mechanism, not appropriate for her character etc.) when the explanation is rather simple. The writer just went with the 'that's hot' mindset. His whole portfolio is 'that's hot' regardless of whether people are comfortable with it or not, just look up his other characters. (I mean they marketed the game with bestiality and the writer bragged about on his twitter)

From Hasin to the Red Prince, even Shadowheart it is clear that this writer doesn't either have the skill or the wish to explore these topics in a deeper manner or with a delicate touch it deserves. That's why all of them devolve into cheep erotic novels. (And the sex starved redditors are going wild for it. 'I wish there were fully animated sex scenes' few redditors said, lmao)

As for the brothel (without Halsin) and the Mizora scenes, even tho I think those were done poorly and don't necessarily fit her character they are avoidable (and to an extent you can explain them away or just roll with it depending on your preferences). The main issue comes with Halsin, he is like that stupid marvel meme 'I'm inevitable' and that to me just shows me where the writers priorities lie.

I still think he did a good job on Shadowheart overall. It's multiple hours of good content with three inconsistent scenarios, almost entirely if not entirely avoidable.

The only thing I can really criticize from the consistent writing is her romance ending, but all endings are rubbish as it stands, so that's hardly just his fault.

Oh, and the hugs, of course. We desperately need hug options during some dialogues and in general.

Things I've personally noticed after replaying and trying different things.
1. About the twins without Halsin, okay, it's not uncommon for couples to try different things sometimes. I can get that, and I don't think it's way out of character, it is more like, she's checking if you're okay with it. I can accept that from her tbh.

2. With Halsin, all I can think it's that there is a bug in the flags because let's be honest here, Act 3 is a nightmare to any player who wants immersion and wants characters to stay in their place. I got flirts in Act 3 from characters I had said no to their advances, I had random lines from Gale, Karlach, etc. All acting as if we were a thing here and there. So, for now, at least, I will just accept and hope it's a bug.

3. About Mizora, I never had any interest in her so I had no idea, and I went to yt to check the video after learning about it. And I will be honest, She is not okay with it. She may be saying that, but the lines, the way the VA portrays Shadowheart? If you ever were in a real relationship you'll know, she may be saying she's ok, but she's not. And here it's you to blame, you cheated on her, and there's nothing you can use or say as an excuse to justify it, even if it's a poly romance with her, it's still cheating on your partner. The way she talks about purity, etc. She's just mad at you and realized that to have you she'll need to accept that.

I agree with most of what you said (I don't think its a bug tho, since bugs don't suddenly materialize words into existence. It's obvious that the writer intended for the Shadowheart/Halsin thing to happen during her romance) but those scenes aren't the issue on their own, its when you put them all together is where the huge Halsin shaped problem pops up.

If the MC sleeps with Mizora it is obvious that Shadowheart isn't happy and that the MC cheated, but her contradictory line about her not looking for anything pure or loyal (her not being more upset or even breaking up with the MC) is what paves a path for Halsin. Add the banter to that and voilà, you have the shit show that everyone is complaining about.

I agree on everything pretty much, especially 3

Yeah it's contradictory, especially after her lines in Act 1 or 2 where she clearly states that she doesn't want to share Tav. But i could get over that (because she is clearly upset when Tav cheats, even though i would like she would be even more angry), what irritates me is this whole Halsin situation.

She sounds more upset that you don't ask than that you did it. Yes, she is still disappointed by it though. But the problem is, as Rotsen said, that she claims she never expected you to be loyal. That doesn't make sense based on her. Why would she be loyal to you and be consistently devoted and wanting to share her world with you throughout act 3 if she doesn't expect you to be loyal anyway?

And act 3 is bad at consequences. Really bad. There are none, that's the problem. There's no reward not doing it. There's no punishment doing it. All her remaining dialogue is the exact same, meaning that, if you look too much into it which lets be real we tend to do, it means she will ALWAYS think you won't remain loyal.

But yes, the Halsin scenario is still the biggest glaring problem, because everything else is player initiated (except my slight gripe with the drows, but even that is only one dialogue path AND you talking to them in the first place). But Halsin's will happen to anyone who plays with him in the party, unprovoked by the player.

About the bug, I mean the fact not of it being in her lines, but maybe it's supposed to only trigger if you're romancing both. It's what I hope at least, time will tell when they release the finished game in a definitive edition. Until then, I'll just let it slide as a bug personally.

About purity in her line, if you pay attention, it's where she even raises her voice more, it's because she's mad, and can be also seen as if she will accept it because she doesn't want to lose you. And I also agree that is because like was said by others and it's already established, they removed ALL consequences in Act 3. So, there's that as well, you can basically do whatever and things will just work out to basically the same exact path.

It's bad enough with strangers who do it for work.

But when the person you're with is suddenly wanting to bring in your buddy, that's not the same thing. It's far worse. He's pushing in to have sex with your girlfriend, and she's talking about how she's been dreaming about it. That's a relationship-over level character flaw.

All I want to say it's that *hopefully* when they release the DE, we can all come back to this post and have a laugh remembering the bad state of her (and others companions) romance.

I think these last couple of weeks I'd talked more SH sexual life than my own. lol

This was my very first time romancing in a videogame, and... welp, let's say I plan to only romance Lae'zel (I really
like that character) and then going back to my no-romance fictional characters rule. :p

But on the meantime, can we all agreed that THE GOBLIN KIDS WERE RIGHT? :p

Eh, I always roleplay in RPGs so I have that layer of separation from characters. Never got that emotionally invested and I don't think I ever will.

When I made this thread I made it for two reasons, I didn't see anyone talking about it (probably because not that many people finished the game at the time) and because I was a bit flabbergasted by the developers decision to even add it to the game. (You could say I'm not a fan of a fetish or two that you can find in this game. But my main issue has always been with the writing and its implementation.)

My reaction/post might have been a bit inflammatory ( ) but using hyperbole and throwing certain words around are a good way to attract attention and evoke emotion. (Did it work? Took some time by the looks of it.)

As for spending more time talking about fictional characters, few minutes every other day to just mess around on the forums is still somewhat fun. But I'm kind of losing interest even in that to be honest.

Do I think they will fix it with the DE? I don't think Larian sees these complaints/issues (Halsin, Minthara - non evil path, Shadowheart etc. Not Karlach because its a lack of quest/ending and not something missable/minor) as something they need to fix and I don't think they will. I'm open to being wrong tho.

But as a speculation for possible outcomes I'll throw in three.

- They wont change anything because her issue is minor and nicely hidden/off the beaten path that most people have missed it.

- They will change it by totally removing any lack of player choice or even better, fully excising Halsin from her story.

- They will change it by adding more dialogue where she shows interest in Halsin during her early story and makes the whole romance feel like she's settling for the MC while truly wanting Halsin, you never know with this writer. (In all honesty this one would end up being the funniest shit ever since more people will notice it and the chaos that would ensue would be fun to watch.)

ps. Reminder to myself - you're using to be honest/in all honesty a bit too much in you're recent posts lol



Wow JandK! Having boundaries and self respect? Controlling much .

I mean, I think you summarized the situation well enough when you created the post. I don't know if I would call it that I was emotionally invested, but it made me more mad than I'll ever admit in real life. lol

I also don't think they'll do much regarding this. If anything, they'll only fix Karlach ending. I mean, let's be honest, this probably is gonna be the GOTY. I don't know what reason a company that is selling well and the majority of people is praising will spend money on fixing this.

And yes, I also roleplay rpg games but never was interested in the romance option (and seeing how my first time using the romance option has been, it's very possible it would stay that way). lol

The part about talking about fictional characters, I said more because I'm used to just play games & not interacting with the community. It was a moment of self-realization. :p

Anyways, I don't mean to disencourage people from sharing their opinions. Y'all keep making good arguments, and hopefully they'll see it and decide to fix these inconsistencies.

PS: Sorry for my bad English, probably is being a pain to read me.

Far as I know, Larian cares about polishing up their games. D:OS and D:OS2 both got definitive editions down the line, though I do not know how much those added. I only played D:OS after the DE, and D:OS2 before the DE, which certainly felt a lot like BG3 when it came to the final act, but I only played that one full multiplayer so without origin companions.

Either way, it at least means they work on them post-launch. And since BG3 is a bigger project than likely D:OS and D:OS2 were combined, it's possible that the DE changes will also be larger.

Regarding changes, the easiest and most likely to happen (other than doing nothing) will just be changing triggers to have it no longer happen if you decline Halsin. This doesn't just account for Shadowheart; I think Halsin tries to force himself in during the drow twins conversation no matter the companion, though I might be wrong. I doubt the swimming dialogue will change. The rest is optional, player choice. I strongly doubt the story itself will get severe changes.

Though one can only hope things get changed for the better. Either way, I enjoy discussing and theorycrafting things, so this is entertaining to me all the same.

Even if its "small" or "avoidable" thing as some claim, Larian claim that they pay ettention to small things, that only 0.1% will see or something like that. So in my opinion it should be changed.
Also its not a small thing at all if you ask me.

I don't have any issue with the openess to casual sex and multiple sexual partners. It's surprising and inconsistent sure, but it is triggered through the player's own choices and agency and can be ignored if you don't make those choices. I am comfortable sharing if you are is a fully acceptable approach to me and it doesn't come off as pushy, she is perfectly fine to accept and commit to whatever you want in the situation. That's a healthy example of comunication you should have if you go into a relationship with different experiences and attitudes to avoid misunderstandings and make sure everyone are on the same page.

The problem, with capital letters, is spelled HALSIN, and his repeated behaviour of not accepting boundaries and trying to push his way in even if he has been rejected. Like Emar said, he is not entitled to having anything to do with Tav's sexlife and sexual choices in that scenario. The only acceptable approach for him is to back off and leave it alone. It is creepy and vile behaviour and though not explicitly a case of rape, he emboddies the same attitudes and behaviours that surrounds rape culture. I want that to stay as far away from my game as possible, unless it is there so I can fireball it to hell, and until it is resolved, the solution to let the goblin children, the shadowfell or Orin deal with that problem are fully reasonable ways to put that where it belongs.

Sure its more on Halsin, but hey, I chose option "I will talk to Shadowheart about your "proposal" and in conversation with her chose that I prefer to stay with her and I dont want any Halsins. Aaaand obviously he still pushes himself again in sharess caress despite me rejecting him and I get disapproval from her aswell? Excuse me but thats vile and toxic, she doesnt respect your choice either. Of course this may be bugged(I hope so).

Sure, I think I've said before that it is really inconsiderate and inexcusable (though ultimately she does actually accept your decision with nothing about your relationship changing, but the pouty guilttrip is totally unneccessary). But it only happens in the presence and context of Halsin, he is the catalyst. It would never even happen if he respected your rejection and stayed out of your sexlife in the first place. No Halsin - no problem.

You are right I think. Because if you actually accept his "proposal" and start 2 romances then in brothel situation it is acceptable. Because if you reject Halsin in sharess caress - it makes your character "toxic", because she allowed you to "start" fling with Halsin, but you supress her. In this case disapproval is normal and makes perfect sense.