Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion [END SPOILS WARNING] Addressing Karlach (PLEASE PUT SPOILERS IN TAGS)

Would you look at that, even mod here says you should be happy with what you got, am I still the villain?

Gonna disagree with you there, a moderator is just as much a forum user as anyone else (unless they're giving out a warning for rule-breaking or otherwise evoke their position, which is not the case here). That's just normal forum culture.

I also understand the point about Larian only being able to do so much, I do. However, I still disagree with Zentu that the current state of Karlach's endings and questline is satisfactory or comparable to other characters she should be equal to.

They created an amazing (and brilliantly voiced) character, we would just like her to be given justice proportionate to how great of a character she is, really.

"Mod" is making a conversation, you're just pointlessly stinking up a place where we gather to breathe hopium. Go organize a social media campaign. This ain't social media.

Pretty sure mods are volunteer. They don't work for Larian, genius.

When the ending/s make no sense compared to in-game lore and setting, it cannot be accepted as satisfactory.

But that does not mean Larian has to do something, they really don't. But the customers in question can also make the decision not to buy future products from said company if that remains the case. That is definitely what I'll do. And no, that's not an ultimatum, that's just my choice.

Yeah, people- even moderators- can have their own opinions. If someone finds the current endings for Karlach satisfactory, that's their right. Opinions on something like "is this a good story" or "does it end in a satisfying or logical way" are very subjective. Nothing wrong with that.
I don't agree- I find the ending of her story utterly unsatisfying, frustrating, and depressing to the point I'm tempted to just let Wyll kill her in chapter 1 even though she's my favourite character in the entire game- but people are allowed to have their own opinions, even if they're not the same as yours.
Larian isn't somehow obligated to make changes to it to satisfy people like me that think it's just not very good- though I very much hope they do!

It certainly is weird how people can get attached to a mods view/opinion. Negatively or positively.

Going on to what's brought up from it, I can honestly say that Karlach's lack of positive ending to a lot of us hasn't stopped me from enjoying the game (though I still certainly take breaks from it, lest it consume me). Well over 200 hours at this point and I still always romance Karlach. The best way for me to explain it is that I do really enjoy her story as written, in a bubble or non-game context. Larian and Sam did an amazing job at bringing the character to life and it shows. I don't think those who follow this thread specifically would care that much otherwise. Nor would the ending gut punch that we've all had be anywhere near as powerful. I think it's an amazing story on paper, and one I am honestly probably gonna repeat several times over. I'm not really one to do multiple playthroughs and do them extremely different. I can't do evil playthroughs, rude dialogue options make me feel bad. Over all the times I've gone through say Fallout New Vegas I've always gone the same route at the end because it's the one I want to do. So, yeah I'm probably gonna intentionally keep hurting myself a lil bit every time I finish a playthrough. Even if I will drag my feet at the end.

Once more, in a bubble, I really find the ending scene incredibly powerful, especially if you do not go to Avernus.
But it's only good on paper. As other people have discussed already, there's a plethora of ways we could try harder to fix Karlach (or honestly try AT ALL) that we never get a chance to try, and that makes it unsatisfying in the context of an RPG. I want that to improve because I think it makes a better game. And I think most people here feel the same. A lot of us here are offering (even if somewhat repeated) suggestions on how to improve the story, rather than just getting angry. That kind of constructive feedback is a blessing, and I hope that people continue with new ideas and ways to improve the aspects they find important with this game.

Yeah, you pretty much hit the nail on the head, I think.
It doesn't ruin the game for me, but it does make one very great character's story end in a very unsatisfying way, and 90% of it is down to the fact it feels like you just don't try at all to do anything to help Karlach. You deliver 2 pieces of infernal iron, get told she's dying, and immediately just give up.
There's never even an option to *try* to do anything, and considering the other companion quests can involve stuff like invading a devil's stronghold in Hell to steal an immensely powerful artefact, fighting an ancient vampire and his whole coven, fighting an entire temple of the followers of an evil god, and so on.... it's just incredibly jarring that there's never any point where you can even try to help Karlach out.

I Agree, her endings are very strong and I had tears in my eyes the whole evening when I finished my first playthrough. But right after the ending I asked myself what did I wrong, what I missed, becaused I was 100% sure she could be healed and especially when I romanced her and played as good as possible, tried to help everyone. This was an unpleasans suprise for me. And all this even before patch 2...

I personally find the scene to be incredibly powerful as well, that's the one and only reason i decided to make this account. i wanted to express my disbelief regarding the lack of... consistency and choice. It's a perfectly valid ending. or rather, an ending i would feel to be valid if it was supported by everything happening before it. I would enjoy a fix for her engine more than anything else on top of the current options, because believe or not in my opinion it would make the dying on the pier option way more impactful. she would be dying because we made it so. Not because it just has to be that way. Plus, i'm not gonna lie. if there weren't massive threads that were not followed in the game (useless to repeat myself, we all know what i'm talking about) i would have been absolutely content. I would've made my peace with it. but this is not the case. Imho, if they want to double down on these being the only possible endings, they need to make them more consistent and remove a fair bit of hope mongering. Not the solution i would love and hope for myself, but at least then you could call it a tragedy with a straight face.

I will say that I also think the current story is very powerful in a bubble. Hell, I finished the whole game with it and I value the emotions it dragged me through. It's when you put it in the context of what we can achieve in the world and what we can do for our other friends in-game and what we DON'T do for her and how short and abrupt her quest is that you start to feel frustrated instead of somber. Instead of doomed she feels just, well. Robbed. And instead of being with her every step of the way I end up feeling like I did jack shit. You tell me I saved my whole team and the world and fought literal gods but I can't save the woman I love because of an iron heart? As soon as the story is out of the bubble it just doesn't math well, thematically.

I know not everyone here shares that general opinion (as evident by people not finishing the game), and I relate there too, somewhat. My ending was
Which is why I do actually hope that if Larian does do anything in response to our feedback, that they build on top of what they already have. Samantha did an incredible job bringing all that struggle to life. And there's beauty in heartwrenching doomed talks and you deciding to stay with her anyway again and again even as it starts to hurt.

However, I would like to do more than talk. I would like to fight for her and feel like I did. I'd like to follow through on all the leads, maybe even try to make some dubious deal, I don't know. And in the end, ideally, I'd like to be able to change something instead of blindly following along a pre-determined path. 'Cause we're able to do so for every other character in the game - or we may lead them to ruin. "Or" is doing a lot of work here. In short, if we fail to save her and have to choose whether to let her die - let it be that we actually actively failed.

(Or - and lot's of people are going to hate me for saying that - remove the hanging threads and/or explain how other options won't help so that the doom indeed feels like the doom. However I doubt that's the way this is going, since they'd probably do that already. Instead we just get more infernal iron with some of the patches.)

I can understand why some people would feel that ( its an ok ending but make those endings make more sense -less hope baiting)
But i am very much against that solution simply because how larian advertised this game. Choice mattering. 17k endings.
They put so much effert into every little thing the player does and The game world reacting to it. And they did an amazing job with it in almost* every part of the game regarding that in player choices. Its a beautifully built game world that reacts to you. But
To have a singled out origin character. From the get go. -hopebaiting or not- have no way to positively change their fate or complete their quest line out of 17k endings? That just doesnt feel good. Its so ssooo out of place.
And honestly if they decided to NOW go the route of removing inconsistencies after weve all beat the game and seen all the ways we shouldve been able to help her. Just to double down on those 3 endings?

Thats when I would lose faith in larians writing team.
Im fine with a *well done* tragedy. But not in a game like this...and not now after seeing how lack luster her questline is.
Personally i think karlach NEEDS things added to her questline. In order to properly complete it. And to have a option where she is fixed

Hard agree with both of you Enerif and Tarraxahum.

And you too Norrec. I think in comparison, it does come off as cheap when comparing to the rest of the origin characters.

Let's keep hoping they'll build on the current state, and let us fight properly in game to save Karlach!

I don't know if it makes sense to say there *needs* to be an ending where the engine will be fixed- my personal view, for what it's worth, is that there should be *some* way to resolve the problem, but it should be genuinely difficult or cost something to get to- but I will say it feels bizarre to me that Karlach is the only character of all the NPC companions to have exclusively bad endings. Literally every character has some ending that could be viewed as positive, except for Karlach, who gets two bad endings to choose from, and nothing the player can do to change the outcome meaningfully.

It's allright, i proposed how it MIGHT make sense by removing threads, but that isn't what i wish for at all... i would love to see her worked on and to see stuff added.

In my opinion, for BG3 to come fully into its own and become an indisputed classic and a masterpiece, there does NEED to be a more positive ending for Karlach. Otherwise I would say for many players something will always feel “off” and lacking. I think that it’ll affect the game’s legacy if it stays as is.

Its literally the only thing stopping me from continuing playthroughs. I had several planned and was looking forward to them. But i get to act 2...and just dont want to go into act 3 cause i know i cant save her.

I mean I generally agree, having a failsafe "Or at the very least--" just usually helps mitigate potential disappointments and such.

I don't think Larian will go the "remove all hope" route (since, as I said, I suspect all infernal iron would be scraped off from Act 3 instead of actually being added in more at some point if that was the case). I remain hopeful that that also means good things for the future. But also they can't hurt me if I think of all the worst options first!


Oh definitely. A simple "Actually, do this one thing and hey she's fine now" thing would not fit into how hard her story goes. If she lives, then it's an "Against All Odds" type of a situation. Just let me get my hands onto those odds >:)

Alternatively, you could do something like making a choice between getting revenge on Gortash or something that would save Karlach. That's not necessarily a better idea than yours, or the only way it could go, but the point is there's a lot of room for this to be an interesting story that's *already there* in the game, which is why it's so frustrating none of it gets developed.

I still find it odd that there's Gortash and his Steel Watch, who has the IMPROVED version of her engine, them gondians and whatever gnomes around, abundance of infernal iron, even the enhanced versions, Dammon, damn foundry/workshop where said engines are being built and we... did everything we could by not exploring any of these options.