Originally Posted by tarraxahum
I mean, I do agree. It's actually well done in some regards and that's frustrating. Because again, it's like... the possibilities (not even the cheesy ones like wish spells or scrolls or whatever, actual directly linked to her possibilities) are right there. Even if they don't work in the end and we're still adamantly meant to fail (in which case, I do have the same question as Karlach herself - WHY HER), at the very least should've been available to be tried. Like, I, as a Tav, I want to try.

Also as someone mentioned a while ago it's really mean that the only person who can't climb out of the narrative pit we meet them in is Karlach, who also had very little to do with the fact that she got into that situation. Like, all of them are victims, 100%, but at the very least our other resident bomb-in-chest haver got his hubris to blame. And even so he's fine. Karlach is just... what, some people are just unlucky? Sometimes all bad things happen to one person just because? Is that the moral here? It's not even a sickness (as in a classic terminal patient cases) that indeed just strikes people out of nowhere, it's a very much man-made/devil-made condition that was actively done to her. And if the former is, okay, often something that you have no choice to accept, then the latter is just mean. You got royally screwed over, deal with it, oh and also even your vengeance didn't feel good or change anything. Sigh.

I suppose that's its own sort of tragedy, but when put in a line up with everyone else... why her, indeed.
To be fair though, Karlach isn't the only companion with a tragic outcome. She potentially has the most negative 'good' outcome, but other than Gale and maybe Lae'zel, none have an entirely positive outcome. Mind that most of the below aren't necessarily from the origin POV, only Gale's is, therefore I could be mistaken about the rest.

Massive ending spoilers ahead for all companions:
Gale:
Gale essentially has four outcomes.
1. He blows himself up and saves the day, but he's gone. That's not a good outcome, for him.
2. He ignores the crown. This means he'll eventually die from the netherese bomb. Not much different from Karlach, truly, just that he'll last until Mystra stops stabilizing him.
3. He defies Mystra and tries to take over. Mystra wins and destroys him. The end. A fine effort, but in vain.
4. He returns the crown to Mystra and she cures him. The one and only truly good outcome for an origin companion, except maybe Lae'zel.

Astarion:
Astarion really only has two outcomes.
1. He becomes Vampire Ascendant. He's no longer himself and judging by the lore around Cazador and the other ones, it's not a good life. Not much different from mindflayer Karlach. Powerful, yes, but no longer Astarion.
2. He remains a vampire spawn. He's going to be stuck in the dark again, his cravings remain. Back to how it was for the last 200 years except now he no longer has a cruel master. Still, not optimal. But if he has you as his romance partner, it's not the worst outcome, as it'll help him cope.

Shadowheart:
Shadowheart has three outcomes.
1. Shar's little bitch. She explodes her parents and remains loyal to Shar. From the very start of the game, in the ruins where you find Withers, you already find books that imply - and this is later confirmed by many other hints and Viconia's corpse - that Shar will use you, abuse you, and then discard you once she's done with you. Not a good outcome.
2. She saves her parents. Two paths lead this way, both end the same way, she's going to have to live with the uncurable wound forever and Shar just gets to torment her like she's got a Shadowheart voodoo doll at the ready. Her mother has dementia and will likely not last long. A cure is still possible, though, gods can be defied after all.
3. She sacrifices her parents to cure herself. She'll live with depression for a long time, as is heavily implied by the game, but can heal, though likely only if she has you as romance partner to help.

Wyll:
I know of two outcomes, but I do not know what happens if you have him kill Karlach.
1. Wyll breaks the pact with Mizora and his father either dies or you saves his father. He remains demon for good and, if you save his father, Mizora will eventually keep up the bargain and kill his father.
2. Wyll keeps the pact to save his father. He remains demon for good and he's Mizora's little bitch once more and thus by extension, Zariel's little bitch.
3. Wyll kills Karlach, doesn't become demon, and I assume follows up on the above? He'll stay Mizora's little bitch or eventually loses his father but at least he won't be a demon then. Better version of Shadowheart's "cure" outcome because at least he'll have better memories of the past.

His non-Mizora bound outcomes also include him becoming the Blade of Avernus or become Archduke against his will. As Blade of Avernus, unless he goes with Karlach, he's as good as dead. No shot he's going to solo demons without his powers. As Archduke, he'll live an unhappy life but at least he'll live.

Lae'zel:
Lae'zel has three outcomes, I believe.
1. Vlaakith's little bitch. She remains loyal to Vlaakith, Vlaakith promises her infinite power and all that jazz. As seen in the Creche she is a backstabbing cunt and kills her. The end.
2. She goes to face Vlaakith with or without Orpheus. No idea how this one ends to be honest, I don't know if origin Lae'zel gets an ending showing it, but Vlaakith has a Wish spell. She can just Wish Lae'zel dead again, so I doubt it's good.
3. She stays. Vlaakith will keep hunting her. Since your merry band of misfits more or less disbands by the end of the game, she doesn't have as much assistance anymore and will likely succumb. That is assuming Orpheus doesn't win against Vlaakith, of course.

Karlach:
Karlach has three outcomes, as it stands.
1. She explodes on the spot. Not exactly optimal, no better than Gale sacrificing himself.
2. She becomes a mindflayer. Withers knows who she is, but he also claims mindflayers have no souls, so what actually happens is up for debate. Not a good outcome either way, since she won't truly be herself, like Vampire Ascendant Astarion.
3. She goes to Avernus with you and/or Wyll. Hunt demons for, well, ever, until you either die or find someone in Avernus that can fix it, which is more likely than Dammon fixing it, but entirely up to the imagination.

Last edited by Michieltjuhh; 06/10/23 01:45 PM.