Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion Jaheira deserves better [ACT II SPOILERS]

So we

No thoughts, anyone?

Many many thoughts

Especially since you gotta roll with only 3 deep if you want her to join in the big battle that follows after. (You can't dismiss a 4th party member there, which was super frustrating.) Like um, yeah, someone else can definitely wait at camp for this one. Jaheira's oh well "looks like you're all full up" message is the most heartbreaking of all of them. Especially if you managed to keep her alive the whole time till that point.

I think if the player gets in the weeds, Jaheira shouldn't die, but should say something in Elvish and charge ahead out of frame to the next area. Even if the rest of the Harpers are dead, she should have a contingency that lets her bounce with a dimension door or something. If she's badly wounded perhaps we can heal her up at that next point, since that's another way to get an angle. We should also be able to have someone from the current party remain "as a lookout in case anyone tries to follow," so we can free up a slot for her in the party. It's a great place to pause for that before diving headlong. It's one of the cooler setpiece fights in the game to that point too, and having her in the mix feels so much more rewarding. Also Jaheira could point out the restoration pod, (as a thing she hasn't seen before, but we have) so that can be another angle. I played for like 2 hours before realizing I'd skipped it the first time lol

I like reading posts like the OP's here, becaue it tells me all the more strongly that I am right to not be willing to play this game without my party of six. And in my party of six Jaheira will always be included, and that means she won't be dying.

I mean, just take her in the party, problem solved. She is treated as a summon in the first fight, so you don't have to dismiss anyone.

If you have 3 members in your party after the fight on the roof you can recruit her into the party right there. If not and you have 4, she'll tell you she'd like to join you but can't since your party is full.

You either have to go all the way back out of Moonrise, ruining the suspense and the pacing to get rid of someone, or watch Jaheira 'do a Halsin' at exactly the part of the story that she's been talking about for the entirety of Act II.

Also we can't have Jaheira and Dark Justiciar Shadowheart together in the same run? Like we all better get into platinum blond, looking like Uncle Leeland I guess hehe. If you Durge Isobel and follow the beats as presented for Villainy, you lose both Jaheira and Misc in Act III, since she needs to be around for his recruitment quest. Nevermind that she was perfectly fine working with the Slayer in the last game to get the job done 100 years ago. She might as well be a Paladin of Selune here I guess, but even then, what happened to "travelling with you is never dull" ???

What's the point of making all these bad choices, if we can't be a disappointment to Jaheira and Minsc and Boo!?

In my view they're taking way too much off the table here to service some sort of perfect "party harmony" ideal. As players we only get these memos after the fact, which is frustrating.

I'm not sure I know what you mean on the rooftop, you can dismiss people without going back to camp, I'm pretty sure that's what I did the time I recruited Jeheira before the plunge. Keeping her alive up to that point might be a little tricky, I came close to losing her downstairs when she tried to go Rambo in panther-mode, but as long as you're past the bottleneck that fight becomes pretty easy.

As for having her and Minsc locked out of the party, losing Jehreira makes sense, I'm pretty sure our reputation points by that time are below (2). But the idea of an evil playthrough where we abuse the trust of Minsc, with 'Jaheria' sounds delightfully twisted. Kind of like when you force Zaalbar to kill Mission. Except Minsc doesn't even realize what evil he's been tricked into doing.

Maybe they changed it? Or maybe my game glitched? I still have a save I think, so I can double check when I get home. It fell apart on the early recruitment for me though, going in blind the first time around, so that was a problem. Instant meta reload to try again on that run.

All of Moonrise became a hostile area as soon as I entered, which removed the fast map travel, long rest, and the option to dismiss a companion through conversation. Got a message something like 'Im busy right now' when I tried to tell someone to take a hike so Jaheira could tag along. The area remained pulsing red like that even after it was cleared to the rooftop, so there was no taking the plunge with Jaheira for me on the first attempt. Very frustrating, since I was all excited.

If the Gauntlet of Shar felt like it was designed to frustrate me on the party movement and targeting front, then the whole Jaheira recruitment snafu felt like it was really throwing the 4 character party limit in my face. As if to say "We know what you wanted from all that EA feedback asking for 6, or even 5, but guess what, you're never going to get it! Now taste these sour grapes!" Heheh.

I think the OP was talking about recruiting her at the entrance of Moonrise, where otehrwise she would run headfirst into the fight and risk getting killed. There you can recruit her even with a full party. Later on the rooftop, she is no longer in danger and you can leave her there.
And yeah, if you are evil then you have to bear the consequences.

Yeah I think that would be the best time to recruit. Like when you first link up. Before she charges in with the Harpers.

Also, for a villainous Tav or a Durge playthrough, they're constantly telegraphing our Evil intentions to everyone we meet on our behalf, from like a mile away. That version of Villainy isn't particularly entertaining to play out, since it's such a one note. It removes the option for deception or manipulation, or even a change to redemption arc. They push this even further later on with the tadpole darkside corruption thing, as a forced visualization that can't be hidden.

Too many guardrails here. They gave team Goodness all the options sans Minthara. I mean Jaheira was around for all my Evil runs in BG1 and BG2 too. She was always even-keel and erring on the side of neutrality in those games. Even when Khalid was getting chunked by those Half-Ogres in BG1. (Why did he charge ahead by himself? Such a mystery heheh.) In BG2 she not only came along for the ride, but even become romantically involved with some of the most horribly wicked Charnames ever to walk the material plane. You had to work really hard to force a party break with her. Sure she'd complain, but that just added to the color. Poor Imoen, she would stick around no matter what in BG1, and she was Good through and through, which made her great for a Villainous run! Right now Team Goodness has many more party comps, more story beats, and better rewards generally.

Hoho, thanks for the outpouring! I knew I couldn't be the only one shocked by what happened. Of course I'm aware that the whole issue can be avoided by bringing Jaheira into my party, but since the game explicitly gives you the option not to do that, it should also not treat such a time-honored character as another disposable NPC. I mean, Jaheira did not survive over a hundred years by stupidly charging alone into a superior enemy force.

Yeah, I mean in that conversation she pretty much says she's got the situation handled right, and then if you defer to her better judgement but things go totally sideways, it's a bit of an ignominious end lol. Instant reload there. Does Karlach comment if that happens? I can't remember. Do we get a "Nooooo!" from Karlach, like Arka gave back at the Gate? I think we're probably under pressure to keep pressing forward, so I guess not, but I kinda expected her to go full Drizzt mode from BG1 ya know. Like just really tough as nails to take down, or at least as badass as that tadpoled Flind we met back in the first Act right? Or Nere? hehe

I haven't played the game on Explorer yet, and haven't played Balanced in a while, just Tactician now, but does anything different happen there? Probably not I suppose, but it would be funny if the player could say "Alright you do you Jaheira" and then she just slays like the whole Tower by herself while the Harpers chant her name! hehe

Jaheira I think should be hexed by a curse of the Absolute, and we see that happen, like where Thorm casts a spell at her. Something that knocks her down a peg, and this could explain why she's coming into the party at the level she is. Could work for anyone I guess to explain that going down. Or maybe the prism somehow does that? And we get a throwaway line there, something simple to keep it on target.

Perhaps the Astral Prism interferes with other forms of divine intervention like Druidic magic too, and so this is why Arch Druid Halsin also joins up at a lvl much lower than would make sense for an Arch Druid. Angle there would be that just being near it has some kind regression effect to explain what's happening mechanically to all the companions compared to their origin stories, but doing that in-universe. Could probably be mcguffin'd all around that way via the prism, all it would take is a one liner from somebody. MIght as well be Jaheira? But for Jaheira, specifically if she's not joined up under our watch, she could be doing some fireworks there. An Elemental form maybe? Just to leave us with a wow, before she jets, then catching back up to us again later.

ps. A different roof... from a different run. If she was somehow just chilling on a roof later with random cats that would make sense. Raised by Harpers and back in the mix, or something similar.

Yeah well lots of it doesn't add up but you can't have Superman party members.
Gale the God shagging wizard prodigy best buddy of Elminster doesn't know magic missile when you meet him.
The Blade of Frontiers (stupid name lol) could have tag teamed with Gandalf on the Balrog apparently yet it seems in actual fact he couldn't bust a grape.
Karlach destroys arch demons with her bare hands if the Teethling kids are to be believed yet let her charge at Anders and he'll hand her her arse, she's great at smashing up crates though!

That made me chuckle too hard! lol I have a busted rib right now, I gotta be careful! heheh

I mean yeah, I guess that's why the throw-away line might be nice right? Probably could put the Narrator on that one, right from the getgo. Smooth it all over at once. But anyone goes uber, should probably the gal who hit lvl 20 in both her multiclasses by the end of ToB. What was it like a 24/20 split? Basically lvl 40 whatever that means in a D&D FR game, there were just riffing at that point. I think her best spell was Almost Infinite's Lazer Buzzsaws. Whatever that one was called. Or like snap your fingers and put the Djinn on it. Bit of a power down from my last memories, but yeah I mean at least she comes out swining with the Panther. The panther was a solid call! Keep it climbing!

To be honest I tend to let things like that slide. Remember when you meet Jaheira and Khalid in BG1 they're supposed to have had adventures with Gorion a couple of decades earlier before he adopted the Bhaalspawn. So they should already be very experienced at that point, yet they're only the same level as you; a kid straight out of Candlekeep.

This is good to know. Thanks.

I'm wondering now if it was the Mimic that screwed me over on the first out? Like if I'd forgot to clear that one and too close to that room, not sure there.

I reloaded a save from the Durge run at the Shadowprison scene to about-face on earlier trajectory. Only had a brief hiccup there... lol

The urge said to kill Lae'zel, but we were having absolutely none of that! hehe

Did the whole thing again just now like I remembered doing the first time, but this time around I guess it worked as normal. I've fought that fight a bunch of times now with just 3 thinking it was necessary to get her early hehe. Learn something new all the time I guess!

The more I think about it, the less I can abide it... it'll be a drag reloading to before the Moonrise Towers assault now that I'm at the beginning of ACT III, but needs must, I suppose.

Sounds about right hehe

Also transition to Act III minor spoilers: Jaheira reporting for duty!

This dude was a total ace...!

Oh, yeah... the pigeons. That was fun. Anyway, I did it... reloaded the Moonrise assault, got Jaheira on board, and sped back to the beginning of Act III (with a little help from WeMod to make better time).

Now the next big decision... again: But I think that's a no-brainer. For a power-hungry Lolth-sworn Drow, anyway.