Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion Fan club of Minthara

Let's go Larian!
Take your well-earned vacation, and then please add additional content for Minthara.

True. "Daughter of Lolth - Minthara Good Recruitment" mod is an absolute (pun intended) must. Exclusivity has to go. Just bloody drop it. It benefits no one, only makes way less people to enjoy said character.
I legit consider Minthy the best female companion in this game but she sure needs an Act 2-3 personal quest with option to say her alignment like Astarion/Shadowheart questlines allow.

I agree that every player should be able enjoy her companionship not depending on his playthrough in 1 act but changing alignment? Sounds so weird. She's drow and more accurate: Noble (ex)Lolth-sworn drow. She lived hundreds years in culture so much different to modern human morale and tbh she already seems good person for a drow. Even "good" seldarine drows in game have very cruel race answers for example with auntie ethel and mayrina when you can say:"[DROW] I don't care about human, give me power". So it's just deep pragmatism of drow race which you can misunderstood as evil. Yes she want's you to take control of the brain (if you're her lover) but she accept any of your choice and she will agree with it (and final dialogue with her you can say that you didn't take control of the brain because you was scared that you couldn't control such power and she will agree with you that it was probably the best choice). If there will be alignment quest for her so why not for rest of companions? I think you agree that see Karlach massacres druids and tieflings will look strange as it's will look strange for me to see 200+ years old lolth-sworn drow become lawful good person.

I'd rather see an opportunity to recruit her in act 1 if you choose massacre grove because after love scene there's moment when you can talk about absolute but it won't work. But it works for Nere after you help him kill duergars and seems strange to me. Or at least it looks like cuted content because there's some hidden dialogues which seem like there earlier was a way to recruit her in act 1.
And there need one more ending for taking control on netherbrain (if she's your lover) because it was kind of agreement to rule together but it's definitely not fit at current ending.

For us veterans of the original Bioware games, I reckon we all saw a bit of Viconia in Minthara. But alas, Larian is not Bioware at its best 15-20 years ago. Just look at how the retconning of Viconia has turned out to be (no doubt at the behest of WoTC). But I do give credits to Larian because they appear to be trying their darndest. 23 years since BG2 came out, 15 since my first time playing it, and I still hated that ending if you romance Viconia, so it isn’t entirely fair to blame Larian’s writing now.

The point of this argument is, we don’t expect Larian to “fix” Minthy and suddenly turn her “good” like some idiots who never played the originals, or are even familiar with the lore of DnD Forgotten Realms in general, would love to claim. We just want a “fair” treatment without the numerous bugs, missing content, breaking of logics left and right, and most importantly, missing out on great content only because of limited choices (ironically it is also a disservice to Larian because THEY chose to lock players out of certain routes). Case in point, Lae’zel is the perfect “Tsundere” type of companions that a neutral evil with Minthara playthrough can compare to.

Completely agree except insults. After hotfix 9 you can finally have ending with her without mods but she still lacks content and interaction compare to other characters (or it's just completely bugged like alurlssrin dialogue). Anyway I think we will see Minthara in all her greatness and beauty in GOTY/Definitive edition (1 year I hope). If it happens earlier - it will be a miracle as a game itself.

Not only did Viconia DeVir pretty much shifted her alignment to neutral (non-romance ending) or (almost) good (with romance), we pretty much do it with Shadowheart, Lae'zel, Gale and Astarion already.
If presented right - it can be done properly through a personal quest.

Like I said, keep her on path of desperate power grab (due to her utter insecurities and fear after Orin has tormented her with processing her subordinates for food/tadpoling them as Minthy was unable to do anything at all)/revenge on her mother/Lolth or help her accept her surface life as a new beginning/be better than her filth of a matron mother has ever been. It's all the matter of perspective, really.
Not saying she should turn from evil to good like Sarevok could've done in BG2, but at very least become of lawful neutral alignment.
Even die hard Drow are capable of some good. Her family already has an example in Liriel Baenre who is currently a cleric of Mystra on surface.

As for Act 1 recruitment - that would be great. Allow defeating her in battle for the Grove, take her and Sazza (playable Goblin introduction, ranger class) prisoner, do our Prism magic and persuade her join us w/o trial at Moonrise. If Nere's brainwash can be rectified, so should be hers. Sazza could simply join out of desire to live.

Firstly, no need to get personal with whoever. Not to be rude, but your seemingly snobby elitism is showing.

Secondly, alignment shift can be a good way of showing character's growth/downfall depending on Tav's dynamic with her and choices made. Shift from evil to good is a stretch of course, though, more accustomed to surface life/dissuaded from return to Menzoberranzan (Minthara is an exile pretty much at this point) she could've been elevated to lawful neutral eventually through (currently non-existent) companion quest and epilogue. She can still be snarky/strict/possessive, but her motivation can be changed. Especially if Tav choses not to follow Emperor's advices and chooses to save the city instead of committing to power grab.

I was talking about recruitment in an evil way, no early Minthara recruitment for "good guys" because all paths should have advantages and disanvatages, right?

Just weighing in to agree we should keep the insults out of it.

Comparing Minthara to Viconia is incorrect in my opinion. One was infected against her will other betrays/leaves her people for own interests (worshiping Shar). In first case it's just the same person as it was in the underdark who's life was destroyed by cultists. But Viconia made her choice realizing consequences so her mind is definitely more open for changes what you can't say about Minthara.

This is the most frustrating thing about Act 1 Minthara. The relic causes her to regain control of herself and almost instantly she's doing things that she wouldn't be doing while under the Absolute's control. She feels unsettled by that control being gone, but is very quick to readjust to who she really is. But for the sake of not giving her the narratively obvious non-evil recruitment option they've made it so for some godforsaken reason the relic only works on her AFTER you've committed to the evil path or leave the Tieflings to die and rescue her. In Nere's case you aren't even protecting him with the relic, you're just talking him down so it makes the limitations put on Minthara EVEN MORE nonsensical and frustrating.

Yeah clearly it works its"magic" by being in close proximity to PC... so in essence this feel plothole ish...
Not to mention why is it fine for our companions to sit in camp and not turn etc, so distance doesn't necessarily mean anything either...

I spent too much time on Reddit. My apologies.

Eh, no. Exclusivity has to go, especially when it makes little sense. Minsc and Nere already set the precedent on the effects of the Prism. Minthara should follow suit.
Also, Minthy's "love scene" creeps me out as it's pretty much taking advantage of a victim of mind control.

If anything, Evil path has to get extra non-companion content as in... make any use of goblins at very least. Also, Wyll and Karlach are still complete buffoons for leaving you in evil path - w/o Prism they'd mindflayer themselves. Basically commiting suicide off-screen. Should be at very least skill check situation. Salvation at any cost, pretty much.

"I don't know myself anymore. Except tonight. Tonight, I wanted this - for myself" (c) Minthara
"And most damning of all, an unexpected weakness - a longing for acceptance, and affection. From a mortal" (c) Questioner Jasin
"You came. I prayed that you would, but there are no gods left to me" (c) Minthara
"I know it was the Prism silenced the absolute in those moments, not you. But it wasn't the prism that held me, and touched my mind and body. That was you" (c) Minthara

Never played evil path, huh? Or you just can't interpret these words and actions correctly?

So, didn't see before you complain about why the game don't allow you to make Karlach and Wyll as evil companions and keep them by side even after raid.

To be fair, Wyll and Karlach survived long enough without you before you met them and the Prism’s true power wasn’t known by the whole party until a bit later on. Siding with someone who would massacre the whole Grove when it was clear that Halsin would help you (as he’s been studying the tadpoles) is just as questionable of a choice.

Really? Her love scene didn't feel creepy at all to me. If anything, she was the one who took advantage of you lol. The moment you approach her, she literally projects the image of her body into your mind. On a more serious note though, the Absolute was silenced that night and she took what she wanted. It’s just dumb that you have to commit mass murder in order to get that scene. Like you have no other choice, in a game that is filled with a thousand different choices.

It is an ethical minefield for Larian to point at Minthara and advertise her to players as a reward for playing evil, to then discover that the only unique thing about recruiting her that way is being rewarded sex with a victim of mind control for slaughtering children. And I don't think they navigated that minefield without stepping on any mines. Like yes she has the line about it being what she wants and that's a good way for the writers to cover their asses to avoid the absolute worst implication of the scene, but that doesn't change the moral implications of the circumstances or the fact that she is still suffering from the mind control directly before and after the scene. It's bad. It's messed up, more than just being an evil thing to do.

None of which is to say she isn't one of the best characters in the game, she absolutely is. Just in my mind her scene and Halsin's Act 3 "romance" crap call a lot of things into question.

You're overcomplicating and making it up. Already looks like a conspiracy about writers who cover the truth. Besides, you didn't kill any children in the grove, goblins did this.
"Ethical minefield" sounds so funny, it's a game and in my opinion most evil choices in the game can be justified by your character pragmatism (if you can give up your morale of course), including raiding the grove.

Outside of her exclusivity and being presented as the only real reward to the evil route (which I agree is bad because it feels objectifying too), is it just as messed up? Like is it weird that she wanted to have one night with someone she felt like she could trust? I’m just not sure if this can be considered as “taking advantage” of her when you’re both clueless af and could die at any moment.