Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion Please Larian, Rewrite or Delete [ACT 3 SPOILERS] (very long with spoilers)

Let’s talk about Viccy first. Who is Viconia DeVir? She’s a recruitable Drow and a Shar cleric in BG1&2. Her story, especially her romance, is one of the best-written stories in all crpgs, and is still loved and discussed by many till today.


Viconia DeVir, art by Ted Arfken

Though, players probably wouldn’t have a good first impression of Viconia. When you first met her, she was chased by a Flaming Fist, who accused her of committing murder. Despite being an exile from the Underdark, Viconia still had some worst qualities of Lolth Drow. She was Neutral Evil, and could be mean, arrogant, and full of superiority. Viconia liked to judge everyone by Drow standards, and would argue with other companions often.

(Sounds familiar? Yes, Lae’zel. She, Minthara, even Shadowheart and Astarion, all have some qualities of old Viconia in my eyes.)

“Men better than you have walked across lava to kiss a dog who's licked my hand” —BG2 Viconia

“I have been thinking, a little. I have been thinking of the time I have spent with rivvil...the humans...and I have found nothing redeeming or worthwhile in them.”
“Hmph. We are meant to find this a revelation, coming from you? It might surprise you to find that most would consider you without redeeming qualities either, drow.”
“If I required commentary from you, mongrel, I would tug on your collar or blow a dog whistle to gain your attention. My words were for and alone.” —BG2 Viconia and Jaheira

However, during your adventure with Viconia, you could slowly understand why she choose to be cold and hostile, keeping herself away from everyone. Besides the fact Lolth Drow were born jerks, the world in BG1&2 had treated Viconia very harshly. A Drow outside the Underdark would not only be discriminated against, but be treated as an animal that could be hunted and killed. It’s very normal for humans to loose dogs and arrows when they see a Drow, other Elves would even execute one on sight without questioning. (Recruiting Viconia reduced the party's reputation by 2, some npcs you met would confront you because of Viconia’s identity.) When Viconia left the Underdark, she had to sell her body to a human merchant, for protection and the opportunity to learn common language.

(BG3 has softened the tone a lot in this aspect, most npcs are welcoming and forgiving. It’s now uncommon to see racists and exclusionists, which is good and all, but it’s kinda strange considering the dnd background. I was surprised to know choosing Drow as player’s race would bring the player almost no debuff.)

“The land was strange, and each day I huddled under the terrible open sky, sure that I would be pulled into the vastness of it if I but closed my eyes for an instant......I was sure I would perish, never to see the Underdark again.” —BG2 Viconia

Viconia had lived a very long, very awful homeless life, every time she had the opportunity to settle down, she would be harassed and chased again. After BG1, she purchased a small land on the outskirts, finally enjoyed some normal days, and became a friend with a neighbor farmer.

“......we formed an awkward friendship. He did not ask why I wore my hood, and I slowly began to trust him. He wondered, though...that was obvious. The time to reveal myself as Drow came one late afternoon. A warm day; the sun was dappling along the south quarter of his farmland, and I pulled down my hood. Then he smiled a warm inviting smile.” —BG2 Viconia

The result was predictable. The farmer pretended to invite Viconia into his house, only to knock her out from her back. He then tortured and abused Viconia like an animal with two sons of his, put her into a coffin and buried her alive after they finished. But what they didn’t think of was, Viconia was a Lolth Drow.

“......I could see nothing except for the lid of a coffin. They had buried me alive... a mistake not to kill me outright. The fools knew the name 'Drow', but were ignorant of my true spirit.” —BG2 Viconia

In madness and hatred, Viconia clawed through the coffin and dirt (Astarion: wow), then had her revenge, but was wanted again afterward. This incident also caused her PTSD over trusting others, and she retracted herself back into the thick shell she built.

“I am drow. And I let myself be lulled, foolishly. The vengeance was bitter, because my own stupidity had made it necessary.” ——BG2 Viconina

But if the player dug hard enough, you could open Viconia’s shell a bit, and see the conscience and soft part inside. Slowly, Viconia would change herself because of you, she would soften her attitude towards the surface world and people in it, little by little, and start to care for other companions, although it’s by a Drow’s standard.

“I have acted...poorly towards you. I...I wish to apologize. Make fun if you wish, but you...did not deserve my insults. You are the only surfacer who has treated me fairly, and not demanded something in return. You...you are not too bad to travel with. For a lowly male, that is.” ——BG2 Viconia

“I have not been on the surface for all that long. Sometimes I forget that things here are different from the world I once knew. I have toyed with your feelings unfairly, placing you down with the other males I have known...and you have not been like them. It was...wrong of me.” ——BG2 Viconia

Over time, Viconia became open to you and shared the story behind her exile from the Underdark. Her family served Lolth, but during a sacrifice, Viconia refused to kill a child, which angered Lolth and sparked a war between House DeVir and other small families. Viconia’s mother attempted to sacrifice her daughter to win back Lolth’s favor, it was Viconia’s brother who saved her, he killed their mother and released Viconia.

“......I was overwhelmed, dragged to the temple, and splayed across the altar in preparation for the priestesses to take my life. I was frightened...terrified, in fact. I would have died, in fact, were it not for...if it were not for my brother. My poor, foolish brother. Valas...” —BG2 Viconia

Lolth Drow lived in a total matriarchal society, males had no other use beyond being slaves, breeding tools, and oblations. And killing a female master was the ultimate act of rebellion for a male Drow. For that, Lolth turned Valas into a “Drider”, a half-spider half-Drow creature (remember the spider bro with lamp in Act II? Yeah just like that, except Larian made him too handsome), with no mind nor memory left, only pure malice and base instinct. Viconia always had guilt for her brother because of this, plus deep fear for Lolth.

“......I have seen her power, what she does to those who fall from grace......She will...will leave me to think I am safe or free and then she will come for me. I...I dream of Valas, sometimes, and I try to speak to him in my dreams. But he is only a monster, now, and I scream when his horrid spider legs caress me... I think...what can Lolth do to me if she has done this to Valas? What worse torments await me when she finally decides to come?” —BG2 Viconia

“If you would...if you would please sit with me for a moment, I would be thankful. I find myself uncharacteristically overcome with anxiety and I am not...eager...to be alone for the evening.” —BG2 Viconia

Viconia was the most difficult one to romance in BG1&2, her romance was long and detailed, but had very little room for mistakes. After a certain scene, she would start to throw temper tantrums and find all the excuses she could to break up with you. This is due to her clumsy avoidant personality, trust and intimate relationship were all foreign concepts to her, in Viconia’s mind, they were associated with danger, betrayal, and death. She also feared that the violence over Drow in the surface world and Lolth’s punishment would eventually impact you as well. After the player’s party encountered Lolth’s gated assassin, Viconia would even lie to you, reducing herself to the lowest Drow in your heart, to push you away from her, from danger.

“You wish to know of me? You wish to learn what I am like? I shall tell you the truth of it, then. I have lied to you, lies upon lies. My tale of the farmer in Beregost? A lie. I laid with him many times, seducing him to get the things I needed. It was his wife and townsfolk that drove me out. Like a succubus I have whored my way to Amn, taking what favors I could gather through sweat and passion. I earned passage with tongue and moans, with more males than you can count. And you are nothing compared to them. Any of them. So, then. What do you think of that, ? What do you think of me now?” —BG2 Viconia

“I am telling you that I have had rivvil by the dozens, that I allowed their saliva to cover me, allowed them to use me for their pleasures! And I enjoyed it!! I am a creature of dark lusts, you fool! Why are you not disgusted by this?! Turn away from me, spit on me and curse my name, I command you!!” —BG2 Viconia

If you choose to believe her lies, or couldn’t stand her unreasonable behaviors, she would end the relationship with you, in tears but in relief. The player needed to use many tricks, such as pretending to be angry and acting ignorant, to persuade her to stay by your side. In the end, Viconia would drop her facade and embrace her true feelings, then accompany you to the Throne of Bhaal.

“(sigh) I...I cast my white flag before you. I can struggle no more. You have...you have defeated me.....I do not know what it is about you, but I opened up to you...I let you inside with honesty and candor. I am not used to such. Trust is death. I have been betrayed again and again, and yet I began to trust in you. I...I could not allow it to happen. I was confused, I tried to drive you away. But you saw through my deception...I owe you...so much. You are safe harbor in a storm of terrifying power. I begin to feel that I need you...and this enthralls me and enrages me all at once... If you will have me, I shall not push you away again.” —BG2 Viconia

What are the cornerstones of Viconia? I can illuminate three: the longing and guilt for her brother, the compassion for outcasts/hatred for oppressors, and the tough spirit that keeps her defying her god even when she’s in fear. Her story was a story of escaping from persecution and fate, she was defined by her rebellious action against her born identity and the lifetime suffering it brought her. Viconia served Shar as the Dark Lady offered shelter for outcasts like her who were abandoned by the world, but she’s the Shadowheart who saves her parents in the end without hesitation, willing to bear the pain for the rest of her life.

Viconia had two endings in the original games. In the default ending, she would find a small Shar cult in Waterdeep, only to wipe all members out when they schemed to betray and kill her, shrugging off the chastisement of her goddess. Viconia then began her own adventures, she once assisted Drizzt in saving the elven city of Suldanessalar from a Zhentarim plot, for which she received the highest honor of the Seldarine from Queen Ellesime. She took her leave after that and was lost to history. Her romance ending has more tragedy in it, in which she had a family and a son with the player after they decided to settle down, she also became True Neutral. However fate caught up to her, Viconia was killed by Lolth’s assassin one day, but in her final years, she finally lived the life she always wanted, peaceful and without fear.

“Tell me...has there ever been anyone special to you? Never a special one who awaited her hero's return? The idea has value. I myself hope to retire to a home that doesn't change by the day.” —BG2 Viconia

“You became my mission. To take a child of Selune's, and turn her over to Lady Shar. To show all light fades, and darkness will prevail in the end.” —BG3 Viconia

Turns out Viconia was the sole reason for Shadowheart’s broken family and decades of suffering. Such wow. Remember how she refused to sacrifice a child to Lolth, bearing the exile and the pain her action caused? Forget it, now she’s a professional child kidnapper, she abducted many children, abused and brainwashed them, she even had a 24/7 torture room, full of bones, blood, and gore. Remember how she resented Lolth for what she did to her brother, how she couldn’t help but missed and felt guilty for him? Great, now she also imprisoned children’s parents and relatives, tortured them, made them suffer the eternal torment her brother suffered, she would even let kids do her job sometimes. Why did she do all these, you ask? Remember even when she was dragged to the sacrifice altar, in fear and about to be killed, she still chose to defy and curse Lolth’s name?

“Lady Shar commanded me. And I obeyed. I do not question - I merely act as she wills me to.” —BG3 Viconia

The writer even had the audacity to retcon one of Viconia’s endings, saying how she wiped out the Shar cult was not a rebellious act, but a super smart big brain move to prove she’s the bestest cruelest Shar cultist of all time. I can’t even describe the disgusted feeling after I completed Shadowheart’s storyline. This “Viconia” shares no common point with any version of true Viconia, I even suspected she was one of Orin’s changelings when I met her. A once complex character, who was flawed but had many heroine’s, even motherly qualities, now was reduced to an almost laughable villain of the week, with a vile mustache and no depth.

The writer who wrote this part, were you on drugs? Were you fucking high? I was even impressed because even if you threw your ink bottle on your drafts, the character won’t be this completely 180.

Someone may say, oh but she was indeed Evil, so it’s natural for her to take this path, right? Stop, just stop. Not all evil characters are the same character, and not all evil characters are fanatic villains of the week. Except for those who have real brain damage, every evil character still has their inner logic, their malice needs a direction, and the direction is decided by their motives and life stories. Even an evil version of Viconia would never be a brainless fanatic who abused children, her experiences decide her malice will always be towards gods/oppressors. An evil version of her could be a woman who’s drawn to blood and vengeance, who’s eager to slaughter all the abusers, not to join the oppressors, become a braindead tool of them, and make more outcasts. (And I don’t understand, why the writer had to make her evil?)

Some others may say, oh maybe she’s brainwashed too, you see, her memory was in Mirror of Loss. Stop again. That explanation is not nearly enough. Imagine all your past adventures and memories were thrown into the garbage can by one line. No, we need a longer, more detailed, and more believable explanation. If it was Viconia who chose to look into Mirror of Loss, why? If she was forced to, by whom? Most importantly, players need a way to change her back. Using Mirror of Loss as an excuse is like saying Karlach becomes a demon boss in BG4, who slaughters and tortures people for fun, and the reason is simply her head was hit by a wagon after BG3.

And no, old characters’ words—Jaheira will talk about Viconia is not as bad as she appears (Minsc’s comments on her though, is just like how the writer wrote her in BG3, full of unreasonable spite, make no sense)—can’t save the narrative, either. Actually, they make things worse, because they imply that players’ past adventures and memories with Viconia do exist, but none of them count now, and Viconia was murdered by players’ own hands. And you’re telling me, Jaheira and Minsc, these two who have accompanied Viconia to the Throne of Bhaal, experienced countless things with her, good or bad, have that little to say when they met?

There’s a rumor that it was WotC’s decision to write the characters this way, despite I didn’t find any evidence (all writers of BG3 on imdb are not from WotC), I think it’s possible. WotC has the copyrights, after all, and they’re well-known clowns (their official Baldur’s Gate novels were so bad that they were mocked by everyone for years). But what I don’t understand is, as far as I know, Jaheira and Minsc in BG3 all differ significantly from themselves in WotC canon (Minsc even poked fun at his hair in WotC canon in his dialogue), so why do Viconia and Sarevok have to be this out of character? Maybe the writer thought letting them be evil could make players from old games easier to kill them, no, this is pure delusion, what becomes easier to kill is the desire to continue playing the game.

So, how to improve Viconia in BG3? Here are some suggestions from an amateur: Delete Shadowheart’s parents, replace them with Viconia. I think Shadowheart’s parents are currently in an awkward position, they don’t have good character arcs or interesting characteristics, and don’t even provide new information or context. Players don’t know them, and to be honest, Shadowheart doesn’t know them either, not really. They’re just tools the writer uses to give players an illusion of weight. I found it difficult to care for two strangers that suddenly appeared in front of me. I could only try to comprehend the writer’s intentions rationally, but couldn’t really empathize with Shadowheart. Why not use Viconia then?

Hear this: Shadowheart and her parents were still former Selune followers, except Shadowheart was a real orphan this time, who was adopted by Viconia after her parents’ passing. Viconia saw her past self in Shadowheart, she raised her with strict but loving guidance, teaching her everything she knew. Slowly, a bond was formed between them. Shar was pleased as well, she saw huge potential in this Selune’s child and wanted to make her a Dark Justiciar. However Viconia, because of her own experiences and bias, disagreed, she didn’t want Shadowheart to lose herself and all the memories, only to become a tool of goddess.

Wouldn’t this be more intriguing? Now there are two conflicts the writer can explore, one is the dynamic between Shadowheart and Viconia, how would Shadowheart see her dear mother, when she believed in the goddess that killed her parents? The second is the growing tension between Viconia and Shar.

One day, Shar decided to skip Viconia and “adjust” Shadowheart by herself, which of course, was defied by Viccy. The beauty of this is she now became just like Valas, her brother, who defended his family from another goddess. And just like her brother, Viconia was captured and tortured by Shar, and Shadowheart was forced to look into Mirror of Loss, then was given the mission to find the artefact. When the player meets her, she only has faith in Shar, besides some vague memories for Mother Superior, which sometimes leaves her sad and confused during the adventure.

At the end, the choice Shadowheart needs to make is:
1. Defy Shar, endure the pain for the rest of her life, but save her mother.
2. Embrace darkness, kill her mother, become a true Dark Justiciar and the new Mother Superior.
3. Allow the hate and anger—that her parents were killed by Shar followers—to consume her. Defy Shar and also kill her mother, cut ties with darkness and “return to the light”, but become a worse person. (This moment should not happen in Act II, in front of Nightsong, an npc she knew nothing about, it’s too soon and lacks weight.)

Okay, enough fanfiction. But isn’t this better than what we got? By doing this, the writer pays respect to the old character, in the meantime they make players from old games care about Shadowheart more. It’s the daughter of Viconia for god sake, who could leave her in the camp?

I also want to talk a bit about Shadowheart. Her quest is called “Daughter of Darkness”, but she is not dark, not at all, I think “Daughter of Darkness except the writer kinda forgot about the Dark part” suits her better. The writer took almost every opportunity to move Shadowheart away from dark, even in Act I, there were too many hints that she was misled, brainwashed, deceived...she was the victim who always wanted light. Which is related to how gods are portrayed in BG3. I think BG3’s gods, or in fact, goddesses, are all poorly written. For example, Selune and Shar, Shar is the big baddie, she cursed people and lands, her followers are all lunatics who like murder, torture, and brainwashing, she’s also very petty, oh boy you better hope you never meet her; Selune is the big goodie, she protects people and has a gentle heart, her followers are all cool, pretty and handsome, she is the walking epitome of blessing.

This oversimplified black-and-white writing in my opinion is not only boring, but also hurts the narrative. It makes Shadowheart’s choice about whether to turn to darkness actually become no choice at all, she has no reason to, and the player can’t find any believable motives for her either. The choice becomes nothing more than an option only for players’ curiosity: oh I want to see what an evil Shadowheart looks like.

But Shar and Selune are two sides of the same coin. Yes, Shar is indeed the goddess of darkness and loss, but darkness has a gentle side as well. For the outcasts who are abandoned by the world, darkness is the only place that allows them to stay (this is the reason why Viconia served Shar in the first place). Why not make Shar a stubborn but honest goddess, who truly believes that darkness and loss are blessings she could give to humans, instead of the petty cartoon villain we got. And Selune has a ruthless, unforgiving side (like how Aylin beat the old man into a pulp) . Won’t this be more interesting? Do you know for how many people in dnd background, the ability to forget is a real blessing? Put some important npcs like that in the game, show us how they’re truly helped by Shar, won’t that make Shadowheart’s choice at the end have more weight? Don’t just place some hollows in front of the house and call it a day, where am I, Northern Undead Asylum?

What I want to see at the end of Shadowheart's storyline is a conversation about faith between her and Viconia, two real "Daughters of Darkness," with the player or even with Shar. Viconia can tell Shadowheart the disagreements between her and Shar, what kind of a jerk Shar is, but she did accept her when no one else would, saved her and brought her peace in the past. Shar can explain to Shadowheart what love and acceptance mean in her eyes. Not the “light is good, dark is bad, I spit on your face, goodbye” we got right now. The philosophical discussions about Dark and Light Shadowheart could offer would also be very interesting because of her identity. But we got none of those in the game. So many missed opportunities, even Divinity Original Sin 2 did a much better job in this aspect.

(Although to be honest, this is not all Larian’s fault. At this point, badly written evil gods is already a kind of tradition of dnd.)

Last but no least, make Viconia recruitable. Please, many players have waited for this for 20 years.

Okay, enough Viccy. Let’s talk about good old Sarevok. Same as Viconia, BG3’s Sarevok is nothing like his old self.


Sarevok Anchev, art by CG-Zander

Sarevok Anchev, the main antagonist of BG1 and the player's brother, was a Bhaalspawn. He was ruthless, once orchestrated a war that could kill thousands, but make no mistake, he was the most unlikely candidate of a Bhaal follower. What he wanted was to replace Bhaal and become the new Lord of Murder, like Bhaal once did. Actually he didn’t give a shit about Bhaal, Bhaal was just the stepping stone for him to achieve his ambitions, one could even say Sarevok was hostile towards Bhaal.

“I orchestrated a war to slaughter thousands. I have felt the cold embrace of death. I have witnessed the horrors of the Abyss.” —BG2 Sarevok

“When Bhaal held sway over my soul, I reveled in the bloody carnage I wrought. But my will was not my own......I will not surrender my being to the whims of another again...be they god or other.” —BG2 Sarevok

The player could resurrect Sarevok in BG2. As your brother and reverse side, Sarevok offered many memorable dialogues about morality, fate, and death. The quality of his story made him one of the most popular companions in BG2, despite his rather brief appearance.

Now, what did this experienced conspirator, who came back from death do in BG3? He became a puppy dog, sorry, “judge” for Bhaal, repeating “All I did was for Bhaal”. Not only that, he taught his daughter, and the daughter of his daughter, to also worship Bhaal. (I don’t understand, since when Bhaal became this top-grade god that everyone wants a piece of him?) The ultimate judgment Sarevok—the man who once waged war—gave the player is to let you kill a flying elephant. You got me there writer, I chuckled, this is one of the best jokes in 2023. Sometimes I wonder if the writer has a kink, a fetish for fanatics who have brain damage, that they had to write characters like these to get high.

So, how to improve Sarevok? I think it’s rather simple: Make him a powerful secret boss, but also recruitable. Bring him to see Orin. Let him use his own experience to scold his granddaughter that Bhaal is actually a clown god, and she’ll become a bigger clown if she gives all herself to him. And that’s one interesting conflict, how Orin would react to this grandfather that she admired deeply? I think Sarevok might be even a bit proud if Orin has the ambition to replace Bhaal, like he once did. But “all I did was for Bhaal”? What a disappointing GenZ child.

Last, if it’s really WotC’s idea to write these two characters this way and Larian has no other choice (I highly doubt that though), I have one more cheap idea: make these two characters fake ones. Viconia is actually a changeling, who once heard about real Viconia’s story and wanted to use her name to control a Shar cult, you know, like the Redcap in Underdark? And the “Sarevok” was put together by Bhaal cultists using some cheap soul pieces and weird rituals, but since they’re not very smart nor did they meet the real Sarevok, they could only make this clown, this pretender, who would only repeat “All hail Bhaal”. You can call him “the shadow of Sarevok” or something like that.

You know what’s better? Delete these two characters if you’re not going to rewrite them. Trust me Larian, the absence of old popular characters causes far less damage than ruining them. Not to mention even if these two characters are not called “Viconia” and “Sarevok”, as Act III villains they’re still very lackluster. I can understand you want to connect new characters with old ones, but this is not passing the torch, this is torching the past.