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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: Sep 2023
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This is a Video Game and not REAL LIFE. That's the level of immersion you're asking for. You want your Companions to be your virtual friends because I'm guessing you have a lack of those. Perhaps you should make your own game? That way you can have everything you could ever want *rolls their eyes* Rude. As SheWildWolf said, just move on instead of picking on people.
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member
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OP
member
Joined: Sep 2023
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I think there's plenty of feedback within the game from companions, NPCs, etc. You can change the level of feedback in the game settings LOL! I don't want them commenting on everything. This is a Video Game and not REAL LIFE. That's the level of immersion you're asking for. You want your Companions to be your virtual friends because I'm guessing you have a lack of those. Perhaps you should make your own game? That way you can have everything you could ever want *rolls their eyes* 1. People like you, who swallow mediocracy raw is a problem in this world, and it is the source of why video game companies(or other companies/whatever) keep getting away with more shit every day. Larian did not deliver on what was promised, after the fans FUNDED THEM through early access. Parts of BG3 is still in a beta state, that is the point we are at, and because people like you never hold people/companies accountable things only ever get worse. 2. An RPG is obviously all about immersion and ROLEPLAYING. 3. THIS IS THE FEEDBACK FORUM, you are obviously not that intelligent. 4. Larian has stated they are listening to the feedback, and to claim this game does choice/feedback/party interactions better than previous games is plain wrong. To get a true next gen RPG, the envelope needs to be pushed, hard to understand for someone like you, I know. 5. This is the first RPG I have played in at least 5 years because of education. And quite frankly, if you have the time to spend on unfinished games, it is probably you who has nothing better to do. 6. I am a commercial pilot, I speak 5 languages, I work out/Stay active with friends and family every day. Now , tell us about you. You who sit on the internet insulting other people for no reason at all, who are you? I would bet you would not even dare to reply, even if you did it would probably be in the most obviously fabricated way. 7. Sorry (to the moderators), but sometimes I just sense an entirely pathetic person behind the screen, and I could not help but dissect you and your vomit. Honestly, you are an entirely laughable person. I wish you could see yourself from other peoples point of view. In the future, try to realize you obviously do not know people as well as you think you do, and your unfounded anger could possibly be rooted in an inferiority complex. Good luck in life with that. : D
Last edited by Surge90sf; 22/09/23 09:50 AM.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Mar 2020
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You seem to remember Leliana's song a bit differently from me. Granted I haven't really played any RPG for the last 3 years because of education reasons.
(…)
As for Garrus and Shepard, you can easily incorporate one or two more characters in that scene while keeping almost everything the same. I should maybe have stated that when I wrote it.
Keep in mind these were only indented for brainstorming, I am not necessarily saying that Larian should copy them. I just wrote what I could think of in the moment( as said before it has been a long time since I played DA:O and other classics.) Your memories of Leliana’s song are correct - in case of Garrus I would still argue that the scene is focused on Garrus/Shepard buddy-cops relationship, so I think making it a group activity would just weaken the message. However, don’t take my nitpicking on small points you made, as a disagreement to the overall message. Now thinking back on the game, it is disappointing that with smaller roster of characters, they didn’t become more intertwined. There was just a lack of polish after act1, that disconnected me from companions as characters. Just a bit too clear, and clinical content drops, with no spontaneous interactions. At the same time I struggle to come up with what I would like to see changed. I just think companions are too gimmicky to serve as compelling characters for a long journey. I don’t see them as enough of a well rounded characters to have much of an opinion outside their own drama. Larian did make an effort for them to comment on every major event in camp, but it falls flat as they don’t really have much of anything to say, outside stating “thing X just happened, and I got content for it”.
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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: Sep 2023
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[quote=Brutality]
6. I am a commercial pilot, I speak 5 languages, I work out/Stay active with friends and family every day. Now , tell us about you. You who sit on the internet insulting other people for no reason at all, who are you? I would bet you would not even dare to reply, even if you did it would probably be in the most obviously fabricated way. I'm sorry, this is completely off topic, but five languages? My, that's impressive! ![[Linked Image from i.pinimg.com]](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/80/f1/c2/80f1c247a898237a7d34eebe3513046a.gif)
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member
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OP
member
Joined: Sep 2023
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[quote=Brutality]
6. I am a commercial pilot, I speak 5 languages, I work out/Stay active with friends and family every day. Now , tell us about you. You who sit on the internet insulting other people for no reason at all, who are you? I would bet you would not even dare to reply, even if you did it would probably be in the most obviously fabricated way. I'm sorry, this is completely off topic, but five languages? My, that's impressive! Hahaha. Well if you are born in the right places you pick up a few extra for free.
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member
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OP
member
Joined: Sep 2023
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You seem to remember Leliana's song a bit differently from me. Granted I haven't really played any RPG for the last 3 years because of education reasons.
(…)
As for Garrus and Shepard, you can easily incorporate one or two more characters in that scene while keeping almost everything the same. I should maybe have stated that when I wrote it.
Keep in mind these were only indented for brainstorming, I am not necessarily saying that Larian should copy them. I just wrote what I could think of in the moment( as said before it has been a long time since I played DA:O and other classics.) Your memories of Leliana’s song are correct - in case of Garrus I would still argue that the scene is focused on Garrus/Shepard buddy-cops relationship, so I think making it a group activity would just weaken the message. However, don’t take my nitpicking on small points you made, as a disagreement to the overall message. Now thinking back on the game, it is disappointing that with smaller roster of characters, they didn’t become more intertwined. There was just a lack of polish after act1, that disconnected me from companions as characters. Just a bit too clear, and clinical content drops, with no spontaneous interactions. At the same time I struggle to come up with what I would like to see changed. I just think companions are too gimmicky to serve as compelling characters for a long journey. I don’t see them as enough of a well rounded characters to have much of an opinion outside their own drama. Larian did make an effort for them to comment on every major event in camp, but it falls flat as they don’t really have much of anything to say, outside stating “thing X just happened, and I got content for it”. No I know what you mean. I was just trying to give a few examples for what they could follow. Maybe I could have come up with some better ones. My point still stands, scenes where the party acts like a group is sorely absent. Like you said, they don't feel intertwined at all, so any attempt at forcing this in at the end (like Karlach-Wyll situation) feels incredibly artificial. I will try to come up with some proper examples of group scenes later. But even for the Garrus/Shepard example, I feel like moments like these are lacking in the game. You rarely speak to anyone unless there is an issue at hand. The only exception would be certain romance scenes.
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Aug 2023
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You seem to remember Leliana's song a bit differently from me. Granted I haven't really played any RPG for the last 3 years because of education reasons.
(…)
As for Garrus and Shepard, you can easily incorporate one or two more characters in that scene while keeping almost everything the same. I should maybe have stated that when I wrote it.
Keep in mind these were only indented for brainstorming, I am not necessarily saying that Larian should copy them. I just wrote what I could think of in the moment( as said before it has been a long time since I played DA:O and other classics.) Your memories of Leliana’s song are correct - in case of Garrus I would still argue that the scene is focused on Garrus/Shepard buddy-cops relationship, so I think making it a group activity would just weaken the message. However, don’t take my nitpicking on small points you made, as a disagreement to the overall message. Now thinking back on the game, it is disappointing that with smaller roster of characters, they didn’t become more intertwined. There was just a lack of polish after act1, that disconnected me from companions as characters. Just a bit too clear, and clinical content drops, with no spontaneous interactions. At the same time I struggle to come up with what I would like to see changed. I just think companions are too gimmicky to serve as compelling characters for a long journey. I don’t see them as enough of a well rounded characters to have much of an opinion outside their own drama. Larian did make an effort for them to comment on every major event in camp, but it falls flat as they don’t really have much of anything to say, outside stating “thing X just happened, and I got content for it”. No I know what you mean. I was just trying to give a few examples for what they could follow. Maybe I could have come up with some better ones. My point still stands, scenes where the party acts like a group is sorely absent. Like you said, they don't feel intertwined at all, so any attempt at forcing this in at the end (like Karlach-Wyll situation) feels incredibly artificial. I will try to come up with some proper examples of group scenes later. But even for the Garrus/Shepard example, I feel like moments like these are lacking in the game. You rarely speak to anyone unless there is an issue at hand. The only exception would be certain romance scenes. I support that if there is some kind of interaction in the first act, then in acts 2-3 it simply does not exist. I would also like to see the party at the end of Acts 2 and 3 that everyone is talking about (well, we all know that the end of Act 3 refers to endings)
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Sep 2023
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Anyone has played the game recently, is there any improvements on this ?
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member
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member
Joined: Oct 2020
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I agree, camp is not well made, feels more like a storage area for unused companions. Wait, that's actually what it is 
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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: Sep 2023
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I would love to have more romance scenes with the characters because we get attached to them
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Aug 2021
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4. Examples from other games regarding party dynamic.
- Leliana's song by the fire in DA:O.
- Mass Effect party DLC.
- Garrus and Shepard, beers and shooting stuff from rooftops.
- Geralt/Ciri snowballfight
- Geralt and the Witchers on their drunk detective quest. You mentioned DA:O as one of your examples but I would say that DA2 and DA:I were much better in this regard. DA:I was the best, they had the inner circle who would have discussions and comment on your decisions at the war table, multiple scenes at the tavern, playing chess, going to the ball, pulling pranks, etc. Companions would move around the area, be involved in each others quests at times, and even romance each other if you did not. (I think Dragon Age had like 4 cases of this) I would have done bullet point examples but that list would be pretty long. Cutscene videos online for DA:I showcase it better than my words probably ever could. In BG3's defense Bioware is probably the best at this and it's what I would consider their specialty. It feels almost a little unfair comparing that aspect to other games because I have yet to find one that is truly comparable outside of maybe the FF and Witcher series.
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Aug 2023
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4. Examples from other games regarding party dynamic.
- Leliana's song by the fire in DA:O.
- Mass Effect party DLC.
- Garrus and Shepard, beers and shooting stuff from rooftops.
- Geralt/Ciri snowballfight
- Geralt and the Witchers on their drunk detective quest. You mentioned DA:O as one of your examples but I would say that DA2 and DA:I were much better in this regard. DA:I was the best, they had the inner circle who would have discussions and comment on your decisions at the war table, multiple scenes at the tavern, playing chess, going to the ball, pulling pranks, etc. Companions would move around the area, be involved in each others quests at times, and even romance each other if you did not. (I think Dragon Age had like 4 cases of this) I would have done bullet point examples but that list would be pretty long. Cutscene videos online for DA:I showcase it better than my words probably ever could. In BG3's defense Bioware is probably the best at this and it's what I would consider their specialty. It feels almost a little unfair comparing that aspect to other games because I have yet to find one that is truly comparable outside of maybe the FF and Witcher series. I agree about the DAI. No matter how much this game is criticized, it has good solutions. Interaction is one of them. There are actually a lot of opportunities for interaction in BG3. I still don't understand why it wasn't used. For example, the Cazador mansion, when I first heard that it would be necessary to penetrate there, I thought that it would be in the upper city and there would definitely be that same ballroom episode that is in many RPGs ( WOTR, Witcher3, DAI ) And yes, regarding Kazador, I like the ritual, but a conversation with Astarion in a couple of lines, as well as a too pathetic death, look strange. There really aren’t many gatherings around the fire either, I’d just like to see everyone together. The scene with Leliana in DAO has already been mentioned. Also DAI after the attack by the Templars/magicians with Corypheus. The fact that Larian canceled/cut out the romance between the companions is a very big omission. (Larian even accidentally wrote this in CU, but quickly corrected it) And speaking of romance, even for the hero, it seems to me that there are few romantic scenes, and we really know little about the past of the companions. For the same Astarion, we have 1 scene in act 2 and his Personal quest in act 3 (there is a scene for DU) - but remembering the promises about novels, this is no more than in any other game. I also remember Will suggesting that we have a party and that he would cook instead of Gale. I think why not make at least a small cutscene with this. I like the Elven Song tavern, but how soullessly they stand..... Interaction in the camp before the last battle, when all the stones are collected. But by that time, the companions no longer even talk to Tav. And of course, the most painful topic is endings. Jokes about the burning Astarion, a couple of dialogues and 2 minutes of romantic interest. It's too sad for a game like this. In general, it seems strange to me that on the one hand Larian’s companions were written very well, but on the other hand, too much in the end seems artificial
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Sep 2023
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+1 on the elf song tavern.
That entire camp in act 3 seems like it got put together in a week. Content-wise and immersion-wise.
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member
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member
Joined: Nov 2021
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4. Examples from other games regarding party dynamic.
- Leliana's song by the fire in DA:O.
- Mass Effect party DLC.
- Garrus and Shepard, beers and shooting stuff from rooftops.
- Geralt/Ciri snowballfight
- Geralt and the Witchers on their drunk detective quest. You mentioned DA:O as one of your examples but I would say that DA2 and DA:I were much better in this regard. DA:I was the best, they had the inner circle who would have discussions and comment on your decisions at the war table, multiple scenes at the tavern, playing chess, going to the ball, pulling pranks, etc. Companions would move around the area, be involved in each others quests at times, and even romance each other if you did not. (I think Dragon Age had like 4 cases of this) I would have done bullet point examples but that list would be pretty long. Cutscene videos online for DA:I showcase it better than my words probably ever could. In BG3's defense Bioware is probably the best at this and it's what I would consider their specialty. It feels almost a little unfair comparing that aspect to other games because I have yet to find one that is truly comparable outside of maybe the FF and Witcher series. I agree about the DAI. No matter how much this game is criticized, it has good solutions. Interaction is one of them. There are actually a lot of opportunities for interaction in BG3. I still don't understand why it wasn't used. For example, the Cazador mansion, when I first heard that it would be necessary to penetrate there, I thought that it would be in the upper city and there would definitely be that same ballroom episode that is in many RPGs ( WOTR, Witcher3, DAI ) And yes, regarding Kazador, I like the ritual, but a conversation with Astarion in a couple of lines, as well as a too pathetic death, look strange. There really aren’t many gatherings around the fire either, I’d just like to see everyone together. The scene with Leliana in DAO has already been mentioned. Also DAI after the attack by the Templars/magicians with Corypheus. The fact that Larian canceled/cut out the romance between the companions is a very big omission. (Larian even accidentally wrote this in CU, but quickly corrected it) And speaking of romance, even for the hero, it seems to me that there are few romantic scenes, and we really know little about the past of the companions. For the same Astarion, we have 1 scene in act 2 and his Personal quest in act 3 (there is a scene for DU) - but remembering the promises about novels, this is no more than in any other game. I also remember Will suggesting that we have a party and that he would cook instead of Gale. I think why not make at least a small cutscene with this. I like the Elven Song tavern, but how soullessly they stand..... Interaction in the camp before the last battle, when all the stones are collected. But by that time, the companions no longer even talk to Tav. And of course, the most painful topic is endings. Jokes about the burning Astarion, a couple of dialogues and 2 minutes of romantic interest. It's too sad for a game like this. In general, it seems strange to me that on the one hand Larian’s companions were written very well, but on the other hand, too much in the end seems artificial [quote=AkaiMikadzuki] Couldn't agree more. After second act companions have very little to say, even your love interest is quite as a mouse. Elven Song is nice, but good grief, why are all the companions standing like a statues near their bunks? Could we have them move around a bit, sit near the fireplace, randomly walk around or chat to each other. As for Astarion's "good ending", it is rubbish in the current state of the game. It seems more rewarding to go the "bad" route with him. You get much more interaction with him, but I digress. P.S. I loved DAO and DAI, played it for 6 years all together, here is hoping that BG3 could keep me playing for a few years as well or at least until "Dread Wolf" is out.
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Sep 2017
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What I would like is if the group members also pair up with each other and not necessarily only with the player character.
It doesn't have to and shouldn't always be about a real couple bond, but also about deep friendships without any sex stuff. Especially between two men or two women.
This would also have an effect on the gameplay if you have the couple or the two friends with you and they save each other in battle, or if one of them falls, gets angry and lunges out of control at the killer, etc.
So also in the game then behave differently than the rest of the group. Does not have to be completely exaggerated, of course, but you should find it here and there, even in conversation options when playing.
In addition, I would always find it good if such a group then after a certain time together and many passed situations also noticeably grows into a unit and it then feels as if you are like a loving family. So the conversations and comments become softer, you apologize sometimes if you have said a stupid word, but not dramatically, but normal around flow.
I had this feeling a little bit in Dragon Age Origins at the very beginning of the Wood Elf campaign, when Merrill says something stupid in the group, but apologizes gently in the conversation and the situation felt and sounded very familiar and cohesive.
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addict
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addict
Joined: Sep 2022
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The lack of meaningful companion-to-companion interaction significantly detracts from the feeling of being an actual party. While on one interactions with the player character are masterfully done, interactions among the companions themselves are severely lacking. Over 85 hours of gameplay, there are few if any instances where companions engage in meaningful conversation with each other or contribute substantially to quest dialogue.
Companion to companion interactionApart from the sporadic 20-second filler dialogue that companions engage in when exploring, I can not, almost, remember a single instance in the ENTIRE GAME where two party members exchange words with each other. The only situations where I can remember this is when you free Lae'zel and she and Shadowheart have an exchange, and one other which I will come back to. This absence of interaction makes it feel like the companions have no relationship with each other, and most of the time it feels like companions are just staring blankly in the background during quest dialogue and are not even there. I have not had this problem in other RPGs so this feels like an isolated problem with BG3 itself. Examples of disconnected moments
Notable examples of this are:
1. During the ending Karlach is dying from overheating of the infernal engine. Wyll randomly states: "No I can not watch someone I love die". And I am just sitting there like ??? Well, bro, you have not said a single word to her this entire game except when you met her. It feels incredibly artificial to watch that scene.
2. Similarly, in a critical scene in the temple of Bhaal, where the MC is being murdered by Bhaal, the romance option (in my case Shadowheart) is just silently standing in the background. This goes on for at least 5 min as after you are dead there is a monologue from Jergal as well. During this entire time, the romance option is just completely silent and reacts in no way. Why are you not running to me? Why are you not screaming? Why are you not holding me? It is ridiculous to the point it completely breaks the immersion and diminishes the sense of connection between the MC and the romance option.
For it to feel like the party members are building relationships of friendship, rivalry, hate, etc..... There needs to be actual dialogue that confirms this, where the dialogue is NOT centered on the MC. I need to see Wyll and Karlach build a relationship that progresses logically up to the point where he says "I can not watch someone I love die". If the scene is going to feel authentic. Example: Dialogue where they reflect on their infernal connections, life before infernal connections, things they have in common, etc.
2. Group talks and activities. Enhance the party dynamic by including for example: Group talks by the fire, card games as a group, and shared meals with maybe some reflection as a group. Further examples: Maybe Wyll comes by as I am playing Lanceboard with Gale and wants to play a game. Drunk dance-offs, push-up contests, stories by the fire. This can be done in either a comedic way or an intellectual one, JUST ANYTHING TO MAKE IT FEEL LIKE THIS IS A GROUP OF COMPANIONS. 3.Vocal approvalReplace the generic text "X approves/Disapproves" with voiced expressions during the actual quest dialogue. Yes, this happens sometimes, but more often it does not. With voiced expressions, it will make their feelings more genuine and engaging. 4. Examples from other games regarding party dynamics.
- Leliana's song by the fire in DA:O. - Mass Effect party DLC. - Garrus and Shepard, beers, and shooting stuff from rooftops. - Geralt/Ciri snowball fight - Geralt and the Witchers on their drunk detective quest. Summed up, it feels like party members never talk to each other and all progression of relationships goes through the MC as a medium. In conclusion, investing more time into these issues will enhance player immersion and the companions will feel like they have actual personalities outside of talking to the MC. I think there's plenty of feedback within the game from companions, NPCs, etc. You can change the level of feedback in the game settings LOL! I don't want them commenting on everything. This is a Video Game and not REAL LIFE. That's the level of immersion you're asking for. You want your Companions to be your virtual friends because I'm guessing you have a lack of those. Perhaps you should make your own game? That way you can have everything you could ever want *rolls their eyes* Ouch, there is no such options. Unless you mean the voice volume lol. Nice try anyways.
It just reminded me of the bowl of goat's milk that old Winthrop used to put outside his door every evening for the dust demons. He said the dust demons could never resist goat's milk, and that they would always drink themselves into a stupor and then be too tired to enter his room..
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Oct 2023
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I agree that more interactions between companions, especially after Act 1 would be great. As for activities in the camp. Yet, the games you mention are definitely more linear and fixed than BG3 which makes the interactions much easier to implement. RDR2 does it best, camp feels super alive - but the story is not branching, it’s linear, companions can’t die depending on your choices etc. Yet, there’s visible difference between camp cutscenes in the beginning and in the end. In Act 3 the only conversation between companions I can remember is Jaheira lightly arguing with Minsc, which would makes sense as they haven’t seen each other for such a long time and their friendship is anchored in canon, I guess Biggest problem, when I think about group activities in the camp would be pacing/all the diffrent combinations. For example let’s say During one day you rescue everyone from Iron Throne, along with Wyll’s dad, and you do Selune Shadowheart story with her deciding to be free of Shar’s curse. Her cutscene, I imagine, would be first in line and then cut to, for example, playing cards of feasting with Prince Ravengard? Either cutscene must account for mood of certain characters, to not break immersion, or not - and then you can have someone who’s grieving suddenly laughing or whatever. There would be potential coherence problems, and as we can see with terrible state the endings are that would glitch or not trigger The only way around it would be giving very clear prompt after certain bigger events - if you long rest now, there will be small feast or activity in camp in relation to events that just unfolded. And I certainly expected so ething like that, especially after Act 1. My team done bigger things than that and no party?? Especially felt weird when some characters suggested exactly this. Anyway. Companions in camp playing or talking with each other - again, cool, would love that. But. Right now player can control other companions in camp, so I imagine it would be really weird, when two of them are doing something or talking and suddenly you take control and stand up, dialogue cuts. Not the biggest problem, but could mess up triggers etc. Companions romancing each other - totally would be interesting, yet very unpredictable and especially hard when there’s end. Heavy spoilers below Imagine this - playing as a good hero, rescuing everyone, bonding etc, and watching romance between, idk, Lae’Zel and Astarion.
Totally weird, but okay, then you kill mind flayer Orpheus and Lae’Zel leaves on a dragon leaving Astarion burning in the sun, horrible end for them! Or Selune Shadowheart being with Karlach and experiencing her exploding, being left totally alone. Heartbreaking! So if there’s romance between companions there would be much more endings that would show up without player’s decision. Maybe it’s not bad, but would require, to be believable, really a lot of work to implement. At least, for my Tav, being bard and all I was able to play music in the camp and everyone rushed and clapped their hands if I passed performance check, lol. That was something I did after every bigger battle and felt nice. So for summary - all these additional cutscenes in the camp, would be welcome but should be really carefully done not to break immersion. Even as it is now, sometimes effects of NPC in your camp are funny like Mizora standing next to Wyll and Ravengard and thinking how to and when kill the Duke and Wyll telling me quite loudly that first thing he plans to do as a Blade of Avernus is to kill Mizora. Drama! And Lady Aylin just watching them angrily. Lol Hope the game, which I think is really a masterpiece, will get more additional content, especially in Act 3.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Sep 2023
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I have seen a few people referencing RDR2. I havent played it but if it improves on the incredibly dead camp in act 3 , idc where they get their inspo.
That being said, there really is no relationship between companions, at all the way it is now.
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addict
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addict
Joined: Sep 2023
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Apart from never seeing them do any kind of activity together, they also don't talk to each other after one of them goes through some significant event like the end of their personal quest.
They'll tell me what they think of each other's choices when I talk to them in camp, but walking their asses to another tent and saying the same thing directly to that person? Too much effort.
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member
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OP
member
Joined: Sep 2023
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Exactly, it feels so strange. They only ever react to each other through the MC as a medium.
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