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what works for me best:

MC - necromancer
Gale - necromancer
Companion3 - unimportant
Companion4 - unimportant

Since Act2 I use only cantrips in fights and i'm near end on tactician, does wonders an army of summons + positioning

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Originally Posted by Blackheifer
Originally Posted by DYNIA
fighter battle master GITHYANKI for op great swords, at level 11 can do 9 attacks in one turn with haste and action surge
sorcerer draconic bloodline human or half elf for shields using as main character for charisma and dual haste :P need feat as war mage to keep concetration
paladin oath of ancienes for light smites for enemies resistance for physical damage and heal also have aura of warding
cleric wood elf or elf basicly any subclass can be used cause every subclass can support and heal, life for more heals, light for more dps, tempest for hybrid also give him war mage for concentrations spells

with this team I killed devil and guy in act 3 in palace with his steel watch and have no problem in hard mode

this 4 classes is TOP S TIER

A TIER CLASSES

BARBARIAN, RANGER, WIZARD

B TIER

BARD WARLOCK ROGUE

C TIER

DRUID MONK

tier list is for pure class 1-12

As others have mentioned that you listed Monk so low is insane. Monks do ridiculous damage at higher levels. I have to assume you have never used one or don't know how to build and equip them. Key items in Act three make it so they can easily hit 200-250 damage per round. Multiclass they can go much higher than that.

S Tier:

Light Cleric Wood Elf
Open Palm Monk Wood Elf (Gloves of Soul catching, Boots of Uninhibited Kushigo, The Graceful Cloth)
Githyanki Evocation Wizard
Dwarven* Berserker Barbarian dual wielding Tavern Brawler with the Dwarven Thrower and Nyrulna (they both return)

*or you can just use the mask of many faces to look like a Dwarf and the extra weapon damage will proc.

Honestly - even the most challenging fights won't last more than 2 rounds with this group so there is no need for anything but haste potions.

If you need a character dedicated to healing then your fights are lasting too long or you have Karmic dice on.

like I said before fighter/paladin/barb are much better than monk ON EVERY LEVEL IN 1-12 and don't even need multiclass crap

try fighter 6/barb 6 and tell me monk is better than this

monk become good only in 3 act and before that is complitly crap while other meles do good on any level 1-12

also paladin is way better vs mobs with psysical resistance than monk cause his smites use light damage
barb bear have 50% resistance to all damage dual wield this with thief 3 and GL

Last edited by DYNIA; 08/10/23 04:23 PM.
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Originally Posted by Demogoth
GiantOctopodes offers detailed breakdowns with actual numbers and statistics. In other words, game facts.
Dynia offers... fanboi opinion and emotional bias?

GiantOctopodes wins.
Dynia loses.

End of story.

Play what makes you happy smile

in your dreams scrub

monk is nothing near barb/paladin/fighter

my crit champion just rekt elder brain on hard mode in 1 turn and don't even used all 9 attacks cause 4 was crits and needed only 6 - so yeah monk is better in your dreams = can your monk do over 500 dmg in 6 attacks ?

Last edited by DYNIA; 08/10/23 04:33 PM.
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Originally Posted by Blackheifer
Originally Posted by Daisuke
Originally Posted by Blackheifer
S Tier:

Light Cleric Drow or High Elf
Open Palm Monk Wood Elf (Gloves of Soul catching, Boots of Uninhibited Kushigo, The Graceful Cloth)
Githyanki Evocation Wizard
Dwarven* Berserker Barbarian dual wielding Tavern Brawler with the Dwarven Thrower and Nyrulna (they both return)

*or you can just use the mask of many faces to look like a Dwarf and the extra weapon damage will proc.

Honestly - even the most challenging fights won't last more than 2 rounds with this group so there is no need for anything but haste potions.

If you need a character dedicated to healing then your fights are lasting too long or you have Karmic dice on.

Not to disagree at all, I'm just wondering some things regarding the comp you are proposing :

- What is the purpose of the light cleric here ? You are saying that you don't need a dedicated healer with a good comp, point I totally agree with (My actual team comp right now is REALLY on the OP side so I VERY rarelyhave to heal). So what is a point to bring a light cleric ? Wouldn't be more logical to take a class that can do some side healing just in case while being a respectable damage dealer / buffer ? I'm thinking of another cleric subclass or maybe a druid ?

- Why are you specifically choosing a Githyanki for the evo wizard ?

Again, I'm not arguing against anything, I don't have enough knowledge to be in these kind of theory crafting about classes and comps... Rather I'm trying to learn more smile


As GloriousZote pointed out Githyanki have Medium Armor but they also get:

1) Innate Spells - jump, misty step, and mage hand.
2) They also get Greatsword and Longsword proficiency, so at lower levels as an Evo wizard you can be a frontline Wizard with a Hill Giant Strength potion, either thudnerin' them waves or slapping them faces.
3) They don't have the movement speed penalty that Shield Dwarves have
4) They are incredibly attractive as a race and I won't hear otherwise. Claiming they "don't have noses" and they "look like frogs" is just rude.

So you can easily hit 19 AC with good gear at lower levels and be incredibly useful at every level.

The key to a truly great build is that it pays dividends at level 1 and doesn't have to wait for some high end gear in Act 3 to work decently. I actually hate playing with players that think like that because 1) they assume the game will make it that far and 2) they just take up space suckking until they get their item that makes the build they have work.

Light Cleric is an incredible Utility class that can dish out massive damage and is extremely tanky.

1) Warding Flare /Impose Disadvantage on an enemy attacker 1/per turn uses Reaction.
2) Radiance of the Dawn - 2d10 + Wis mod - HUGE AOE that only hits hostiles - Channel Divinity
3) Fireball and Destructive Wave

Plus they bring all the usual utility that Clerics have - the only downside is they don't get any special weapon proficiencies or armor, but they are perfect for the Blood of Lathander which kicks so much ass in the shadow cursed lands. They also get Daylight as an Always prepared spell which is really nice. Daylight, as I am sure you know, blinds undead and shadow creatures, same as the mace.

Finally, and this is a big one, Drow and or High Elves get Perception as a racial + Wisdom is the key attribute in perception. Combine that with items that give advantage on perception checks and you have what is basically a "Perceptor" character. They always see stuff.

Jahiera makes a better Rogue/Monk than Astarion or a Better Cleric than Shadowheart because she starts with Perception.

I acctually prefer life cleric cause he make your team immortal no matter what bad RNG you will have
bless ring and blade ward gloves and have fun (both from act 1)

Last edited by DYNIA; 08/10/23 04:30 PM.
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You are ALL wrong. Bard is the best mele in the game bar none.
It’s practically GOD mode and can manhandle every encounter on tactician alone

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Originally Posted by victorvnv
You are ALL wrong. Bard is the best mele in the game bar none.
It’s practically GOD mode and can manhandle every encounter on tactician alone

1/10 try again

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Originally Posted by DYNIA
in your dreams scrub

monk is nothing near barb/paladin/fighter

my crit champion just rekt elder brain on hard mode in 1 turn and don't even used all 9 attacks cause 4 was crits and needed only 6 - so yeah monk is better in your dreams = can your monk do over 500 dmg in 6 attacks ?

I like how literally a page ago you quoted your warrior as doing 7-23 damage but now he’s supposedly magically doing 100 damage per attack on a crit. Provide a screen shot of your character’s inventory, showing what equipment he’s using, the damage per attack and the to hit bonus. It should be trivially easy to do.

And yes, Monk is better than Fighter 6 / Barb 6, in a variety of configurations including but not limited to Monk 8 / Barb 4. And if you think Monks are garbage before act 3 (hilarious btw), pick a point in the game and pick a level and we can just run the comparison again. As previously indicated the last one was deliberately quite generous to the Fighter, I can assure you at lower levels it turns out much worse for them.

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Originally Posted by DYNIA
I acctually prefer life cleric cause he make your team immortal no matter what bad RNG you will have
bless ring and blade ward gloves and have fun (both from act 1)

Yes but needing a dedicated healer is a scrub move. :P

With the right overpowered configuration nothing will live long enough to do any real damage.


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Originally Posted by Blackheifer
Originally Posted by DYNIA
I acctually prefer life cleric cause he make your team immortal no matter what bad RNG you will have
bless ring and blade ward gloves and have fun (both from act 1)

Yes but needing a dedicated healer is a scrub move. :P

With the right overpowered configuration nothing will live long enough to do any real damage.

yes and no, I had once in moon light tower so bad RNG that I had to run with my barbarian lol

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Originally Posted by GiantOctopodes
Originally Posted by DYNIA
in your dreams scrub

monk is nothing near barb/paladin/fighter

my crit champion just rekt elder brain on hard mode in 1 turn and don't even used all 9 attacks cause 4 was crits and needed only 6 - so yeah monk is better in your dreams = can your monk do over 500 dmg in 6 attacks ?

I like how literally a page ago you quoted your warrior as doing 7-23 damage but now he’s supposedly magically doing 100 damage per attack on a crit. Provide a screen shot of your character’s inventory, showing what equipment he’s using, the damage per attack and the to hit bonus. It should be trivially easy to do.

And yes, Monk is better than Fighter 6 / Barb 6, in a variety of configurations including but not limited to Monk 8 / Barb 4. And if you think Monks are garbage before act 3 (hilarious btw), pick a point in the game and pick a level and we can just run the comparison again. As previously indicated the last one was deliberately quite generous to the Fighter, I can assure you at lower levels it turns out much worse for them.

battle master with 5% crit its not same warrior as champion with 25% crit, its was my 3rd play thou with champion and 2nd with battle master

and learn to count 6 hits with over 500 dmg its not 100 dmg per hit, elder brain have ~500 hp on hard

and no nothing in melee is better than barb/paladin/fighter and some mix with them like paladin/temp cleric or barb/fighter or pure of them

the only diffrence that barb is much better on lower levels and later paladin and fighter and better etc

Last edited by DYNIA; 08/10/23 11:45 PM.
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Originally Posted by DYNIA
Originally Posted by victorvnv
You are ALL wrong. Bard is the best mele in the game bar none.
It’s practically GOD mode and can manhandle every encounter on tactician alone

1/10 try again
I really am not. Once I post my GOD MODE bard build on here soon , you will see how ignorant you are. And no, you can’t find the build online, but don’t worry I will post it on here so with videos of me soloing every single boss on tactician

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Originally Posted by victorvnv
Originally Posted by DYNIA
Originally Posted by victorvnv
You are ALL wrong. Bard is the best mele in the game bar none.
It’s practically GOD mode and can manhandle every encounter on tactician alone

1/10 try again
I really am not. Once I post my GOD MODE bard build on here soon , you will see how ignorant you are. And no, you can’t find the build online, but don’t worry I will post it on here so with videos of me soloing every single boss on tactician

bear barb laugh on your bard in terms of tankines of everything same with light cleric

there is nothing better in terms of power then light cleric to solo

bard is trash

Last edited by DYNIA; 08/10/23 11:50 PM.
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Originally Posted by DYNIA
Originally Posted by victorvnv
Originally Posted by DYNIA
Originally Posted by victorvnv
You are ALL wrong. Bard is the best mele in the game bar none.
It’s practically GOD mode and can manhandle every encounter on tactician alone

1/10 try again
I really am not. Once I post my GOD MODE bard build on here soon , you will see how ignorant you are. And no, you can’t find the build online, but don’t worry I will post it on here so with videos of me soloing every single boss on tactician

bear barb laugh on your bard in terms of tankines of everything same with light cleric

there is nothing better in terms of power then light cleric to solo

bard is trash
You say that because you only net deck builds. And I am telling you that the absolute most powerful class solo is Bard bar NONE.

I am not going to post the build in this thread as someone will try steal my credit for it , but look up this forum in the next couple days for my God Mode bard build with videos of every boss encounter soloed on Tactician

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Originally Posted by DYNIA
battle master with 5% crit its not same warrior as champion with 25% crit, its was my 3rd play thou with champion and 2nd with battle master

and learn to count 6 hits with over 500 dmg its not 100 dmg per hit, elder brain have ~500 hp on hard

and no nothing in melee is better than barb/paladin/fighter and some mix with them like paladin/temp cleric or barb/fighter or pure of them

the only diffrence that barb is much better on lower levels and later paladin and fighter and better etc

Correct it's at minimum 84 and at most 100 damage average per attack, but any damage range with an average damage of 85+ should be capable of hitting 100, especially since you said 4 were crits of the 6. So either crit damage was very close to non-crit damage, or I would expect the crits to have damage ranges hitting 100. Statistically that should be true, assuming of course that what you've indicated is accurate. Which it's a bit suspicious that you're now claiming you were *not* hitting 100 damage on a crit, but it should be easy to prove - just post the equipment and build used or post the picture showing your inventory. It should not be hard to do.

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Originally Posted by GiantOctopodes
Originally Posted by DYNIA
battle master with 5% crit its not same warrior as champion with 25% crit, its was my 3rd play thou with champion and 2nd with battle master

and learn to count 6 hits with over 500 dmg its not 100 dmg per hit, elder brain have ~500 hp on hard

and no nothing in melee is better than barb/paladin/fighter and some mix with them like paladin/temp cleric or barb/fighter or pure of them

the only diffrence that barb is much better on lower levels and later paladin and fighter and better etc

Correct it's at minimum 84 and at most 100 damage average per attack, but any damage range with an average damage of 85+ should be capable of hitting 100, especially since you said 4 were crits of the 6. So either crit damage was very close to non-crit damage, or I would expect the crits to have damage ranges hitting 100. Statistically that should be true, assuming of course that what you've indicated is accurate. Which it's a bit suspicious that you're now claiming you were *not* hitting 100 damage on a crit, but it should be easy to prove - just post the equipment and build used or post the picture showing your inventory. It should not be hard to do.

count as your will elder brain rekt in 6 melee hit with legendary gigant slayer gs level 12 pure champion with like 20% crit rate, now do it with your monk, on hard mode he have around 500 hp

500/6 = 83,33333333

its dosent matter what other gear she used its best great sword in game and rest items gave around 20% crit rate, cloak 5% rate, helm 5% rate etc and fire dps glovers from house of hope

Last edited by DYNIA; 09/10/23 08:27 AM.
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Yep but using that great sword with 18 Str will give you 10-22 damage; a crit with it is +2d6 damage (2-12) for a total of 12-34 damage, which is quite a ways off from 83 damage per swing you see. If all the rest of your gear is focused on improving your crit rate, it’s rather hard for it to also add +50 damage per swing. Even if we assume you’re using an elixir to improve your Str to 27 and Great Weapon Master, that’s +18 damage, leaving you 32 damage per swing short even if you rolled max damage. So it does indeed matter what other gear she used, as your claims as presented are simply not possible.

Edit: note those damage ranges; a crit at this point is doing up to 12 higher than a non-crit. You said 4 of them were crits but now you’re saying 500 damage divided by 6 is 83.33 as though someone didn’t already know that. Are you trying to claim all 6 attacks did exactly 84 damage, crit and non-crit alike? That certainly seems…. Unlikely at best.

Last edited by GiantOctopodes; 09/10/23 12:45 PM.
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Originally Posted by GiantOctopodes
Yep but using that great sword with 18 Str will give you 10-22 damage; a crit with it is +2d6 damage (2-12) for a total of 12-34 damage, which is quite a ways off from 83 damage per swing you see. If all the rest of your gear is focused on improving your crit rate, it’s rather hard for it to also add +50 damage per swing. Even if we assume you’re using an elixir to improve your Str to 27 and Great Weapon Master, that’s +18 damage, leaving you 32 damage per swing short even if you rolled max damage. So it does indeed matter what other gear she used, as your claims as presented are simply not possible.

Edit: note those damage ranges; a crit at this point is doing up to 12 higher than a non-crit. You said 4 of them were crits but now you’re saying 500 damage divided by 6 is 83.33 as though someone didn’t already know that. Are you trying to claim all 6 attacks did exactly 84 damage, crit and non-crit alike? That certainly seems…. Unlikely at best.

tell it to my champion who rekt elder brain in 6 hits in 1st turn on hard mode, she dont even used all hits that have in her turn lol

i dont give a fuck about numbers that you count wrong

Last edited by DYNIA; 09/10/23 01:26 PM.
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https://imgur.com/a/WxlHuLT

I don't use great weapon feat cause its crap and I use crit potion lol, savage attacker make me rare cause that I do minimal damage now count over 40 max damage + crit

savage attacker its complitly broken S tier feat for weapons like great swords

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Your own screen shot show it doing a max of 57 damage on a crit meaning it’s outright impossible to ever hit 83 damage even on a crit and doubly impossible for you to have dealt 500 damage in 6 attacks if 2 of them are non-crits. Max would be 286, barely over half the required amount, and that’s assuming they all roll max damage.

Something that would give +10 damage per attack (GWM) and An extra attack when you crit, on a build built around critting and thus giving you an extra 50+ damage per round (100+ average damage extra if they’re paralyzed) while hasted is trash. But something that gives you an extra 2 damage per attack on a crit and thus gives an extra 18 average damage max is S tier.

Indeed it’s clear to see that you don’t give a **** about numbers, your claims are entirely unfounded, your information is inaccurate, your valuations on things are based on how they feel to you rather than how effective they are, and every piece of evidence you provide for your claims outright disprove them instead, meaning at no point can anyone take your word for anything. You haven’t been able to back up a single statement of yours with evidence, objective analysis, or even just a rational argument. It’s all just declarations of things as true when they demonstrably are not.

Last edited by GiantOctopodes; 09/10/23 03:15 PM.
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with damage from this screenshot you are not doing 500 damage even with 6 crits in a row.

lol, fail

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