Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion Shadowheart Romance and the Hidden Fetish - (Spoilers inside)

I cant imagine her screaming or something at MC for that, personally im fine with her reaction. She seems pissed off but accepts. That being said, some disapproval certanly wouldn't hurt in that dialogue(Sometimes disappointment speaks much louder than hysteria or other words).

Removing several lines of dialog is not a big change. But feedback should be processed by QA, than writes and devs should analyze it and agree with it. In positive case it will take months.

Which personality around people she considers attractive. The moments where she does some flirting with Karlach, or the moments where she's embarrassed about being attracted to PC, giving you a more wholesome dialogue option that gives approval compared to the straightforward dialogue option that just says "lol lets fuck" which.. does not. She also never does anything. Astarion and Lae'zel will fuck around if you don't romance them (implied to happen more than once, even), Wyll will have a cute chat with Lae'zel to her disappointment, Gale and Shadowheart do nothing and Karlach can't.

With the exception of the Mizora dialogue, it is never stated that that is how it is. It is stated multiple times that Shar doesn't want you to be distracted and that they therefore needed to find excuses or do it secretly just to have intimate moments with others, including throughout her entire Sharran act 3 story arc, which I admit isn't much because act 3 is shite, but it's more than a single optional dialogue that happens while she's out of character. There is also absolutely nothing in the House of Grief itself that hints at this being the case either, while there are memories she regains about torturing and infiltration lessons. Meanwhile her relationship with Nocturne is implied to have been entirely platonic. You think if it were encouraged, she wouldn't have a more vivid history with the one person she liked there? It's contradictory no matter how you put it, but at least if the game gave more hints at both then you could argue that it just depends on what she remembers. It doesn't.

I call the entire interaction out of character because so much as kissing Wyll makes her disappointed, and she forces you to choose on the spot. Or even just laying next to Karlach at night, where nothing actually happens. But the only thing she's upset about (if you can even call it that) regarding Mizora is that you didn't ask first. She doesn't even get angry if you tell her you'll do what you want. Absolutely none of the dialogue choices piss her off in the slightest. Why, then, can't you ask her about having an open/poly relationship with Karlach? Or any other origin companion, if she's suddenly fine with an open relationship now while she very clearly wasn't before? Again, if there were more hints than just this one interaction (and the Halsin shitshow), then it'd be more believable. But everything else hints at it not being the case, dating all the way back to act 1.

And I do not AT ALL buy the fact she didn't expect you to stay faithful. She spited her goddess, her only support at the time, just to devote herself fully to someone she apparently didn't even expect to be faithful?

Well, you just cheated on her, she chose to forgive and stick with your character(because she is fucking devoted to you at this point and has to deal with it). Doesnt really matter if thats "how she was raised" statment is true or she chose to use it as coping mechanism. You can chose meanest options in other dialogues but she usually just goes "I will manage, we dont break up".

No, Karlach chooses to forgive depending on dialogue options, Shadowheart didn't 'choose to forgive', she's fine with it and just wants you to ask next time. And I just edited in a bit late to the previous post because I forgot to mention it, but it makes no sense that she doesn't expect you to remain faithful considering she just spited her only other support in life, which was a literal goddess, just to devote herself fully to you. She has enough faith in you to think you'll lead her to a better life than a goddess could, but not enough faith in you to think you'll not cheat on her?

If that's true, that just makes me really sad for her. Like how far could this go? If we start beating her is she is going to just let us, accept that just how it is and forgive us? We can do whatever we want, without consequence? Has she no backbone at all? This is very disturbing when you really think about it.

She is insecure whole act 3 though. Still the way she places emphasis on "swan" line makes me believe that she is not fine. And after this she just accepts that she has to deal with it and only asks you to ask her first if you plan to do anything like that in the future. Also her acceptance is played perfectly in the last line when she responds to "And you would've said yes?" - "You gotta eat. What do I get from denying your appetites?"(She doesnt say yes. She is also sad when she says that btw).

Well, hitting her 3 times in a row eill get you -10 approval in game. As for other things, just remember "Shadowheart has faith in you"(from dark urge playthrough).

That's true. Hit her enough, it will lower approval enough and she'll leave. At least she can stand up for herself then.

She is insecure, but not to that extent. And the way it's written doesn't sound like how someone who accepts it only because she's afraid to lose you would reply, in my opinion. The "You gotta eat" line is literally a synonym for yes, even if reluctant.

And I do not agree that Jennifer's line delivery there implies sadness, or disappointment. Only the line she throws at Mizora has some semblance of anger to it. The rest sounds playfully sarcastic. She sounds disappointed if you walk away from her during the act 1 romance scene, or don't kiss her (failing insight check ftw), or break up with her by just leaving when she asks you to choose between her and someone else in act 2. And a plethora of other scenarios. She sounds sad during her final story cutscene, and during the start of her epilogue chat (no parents version). Compare those situations to the Mizora one and you'll know what I mean. Then again, I'm no expert voice actor, this is just my interpretation.

What would she answer in your opinion then? I just rewatched whole dialogue after Mizora cheat and she is definetely sad during last lines(not like in the ending obviously or other things). I consider her insecure and/or "clingy" to your character because she asks few times if you want to be with her, says that she thinks that she doesnt deserve your Tav, there is no way to break up with her after Mizora even with meanest options and there is no way to break up with her if you tell her you want to bang Halsin(you can literally say there is no room for you now, she says that she will manage), in her endings the "worst" you can get is "I wont force you, but I will keep myself easy to find in case you change your mind". Ofc it might be just huge cope, but thats just how I see it.
I will say it again: Even small disapproval would be nice on Mizora cheat (Instead of huge rewriting).

She's indeed not entirely sure if you want her, though her dialogue during the finale implies character development that is ruined again in the epilogue. So like you said, she is insecure. But lets say it this way. She gave up her life as she knew it for someone that she believes in. If she were insecure to that extent, she should be inconsolable because her world just crumbled before her, because she just found out her sacrifice was for some cheating scum. Since she's not even sure if you want to be with her and she needs constant confirmation of this, wouldn't finding out that you cheat on her make her burst out in tears?

I don't mind her asking for confirmation halfway through act 3. The only time it was mentioned prior to that was obviously incredibly emotionally charged so having her ask for confirmation at a more calm moment makes sense for someone insecure. However, personally I don't like the epilogue, especially after the finale. I think there was good character development there, she showed confidence. By the time you can cheat on Mizora, some of that confidence should be back already (it's after your second confirmation chat).
So I expected a reply more similar to what she does when you break up with her. You don't even get to say why, she just says she thought you had something lasting and says she won't make the same mistake again. So if anything, I actually think it'd make most sense if she just breaks up with you on the spot and you don't even get to reply, at least not then. That'd fit how she reacts when you say you want to break up with her.

I haven't been in this thread in a while and I have to say, my dudes I see a lot of cope going on, on both sides. You can rationalize all you want as to what makes or doesn't make sense but the answer is simple. To be blunt the issue is poor writing (whether you want to accept that or you enjoy parts of it) and the writers decision to season his stories with his own sexual interests.

And before someone decides to jump down my throat about attacking the writer or dismissing other peoples feelings, I don't care about your sexual interests and I don't not think less of you because of them. My point isn't to insult but to point out a certain thing. (observation)

He has written three companions (DOS2 and BG3) and in all three companions you can find aspects of cucking. (An apology to the Red Queen, I know you dislike the word but in this case it applies. Unless you can give me another name for it.)
I would say he felt rather bold when he was writing Halsin since he also decided to add bestiality, a disgusting fetish that I might add Larian decided to market their game with. (No its not one 'funny scene', Halsin has in game/cut dialogue implying he has sexual relations with animals and the whole drow scene leans heavily into it also. As for those that would defend it by saying he is a druid, would you hold the same position if he were to turn into a child? And the consent thing, lol? Scooby-doo can also consent, at the end of the day you are still having sex with an animal.)

So with that said, no its not a bug, not its not an oversight. Its intended and you are not the audience for his characters. (Maybe these things will change if the backlash is loud enough but the same could've been said for Red Prince and he stayed the same)

As for the whole Mizora scene, yes the poor writing shines the most here since she contradicts everything she has said up to that point. And if you decide to sleep with someone else after the said scene she will go back to her base way of thinking and breaking up with the MC. (Unless its Halsin ofc)

And it was/is used to justify polyamory and the sudden change in character seeing how even the militant poly people of reddit are using that scene as a justification for her being poly. (A lot of people don't care about writing or it making sense but are mainly focusing on their own wish fulfillment with addition of projecting their own lives onto it, that's why you will find poly posters being offended as if you were attacking them.)

If multiple versions of a character are supposed to exist and just closing your eyes/ignoring it is enough then I ask for a scene where Wyll is okay with the MC slaughtering refugees in ACT3 and saying he never cared and enjoys mindless killing. Consistency be damned.

I will say this as a closing part of my post. I don't want to play a side NPC in a RPG whether that comes to the main story or romances. (So I don't want to go through a full campaign where my MC is the main hero only to be swept under the rug in the last 5min because a new NPC showed up and killed the bad guy without my input and I don't want to go through a whole romance where the character decided to cheat and the very end.)


ps. Queen you don't have to worry I probably won't be coming back to this thread any time soon.

That feels a bit extreme in my opinion. I would think you get hit with like -25 approval and her saying (sternly)something like "I'm very disappointed in you. It hurts me that you would be so disrespectful towards me and our relationship like this. It will take time to earn back that trust, but I'm willing to try."

Thankfully that doesn't happen with Shadowheart so long as you don't actively cheat on her and ignore Halsin's existence as a companion, or just murder him (oh no, you'll miss out on a 5 second cutscene at the end of act 2!). She remains the lovable person you help mold her to become. Lets not give him ideas now, though, I'd rather have no bonus epilogue than have something as retarded as that.

As for the rest of your post, I just enjoy discussing things, and keeping the topic alive is hopefully worth it so long as it doesn't turn into repetitiveness or bump posts. Lets have them prove they care about feedback beyond just PR talk! I still don't know what exactly happens with the Red Prince except that it was supposedly at least hinted at, which means it wasn't as out of the blue as this situation. But I do know people weren't very happy about it.

That'll do as well. Though I wouldn't mind that as a followup chat a long rest later. I also think you should be able to talk after breaking up with her on a later occasion, so you can at least give a reason. I might be wrong, but don't other companions let you give a reason?

Physical cheating, no. Emotional, yes. That banter is canon no matter how you try to spin it. (What I'm trying to say is you shouldn't have to ignore parts of the game or try to go out of your way to kill companions so certain things where the player has no control over won't happen.)

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to shut down the discussion. I've rather enjoyed reading your posts. Wish you all the best.

Now for real, in this last month talking about this whole topic I felt like a broken record so I'm going to disengage. Again have fun and all the luck in changing the writers/devs mind on this.

Yeah, that much is true regarding the emotional cheating. However, thankfully as it stands even that is avoidable by killing Halsin before he so much as exists as a person. And killing a rabid bear doesn't make you a bad person, he himself calls you a lunatic for siding with him, after all. But I do wish it were rewritten entirely instead so you can have him around without the implications. And this has the added benefit that the Halsin fans will be happy, too, because they're not exactly happy with him either.

Enjoy your time off from the topic. Thanks for starting it and lets hope our combined efforts cause change eventually!

I don't know I've never fully romanced anyone besides SH. Like I start a new game with the intention of branching out just to see, but then SH looks at me once and I'm right back in her clutches lmfao

But yeah, I agree a follow up chat would work too. I think she would give you another chance but definitely not let you get off lightly. The way they have her now is basically just waving it away, as if it doesn't matter, no consequences and it feels very unrealistic.

You're right, we shouldn't have to. Hopefully they'll fix it and we won't have to deal with it anymore. It could be worse though, so at least there's that lol

Anyway, thanks for starting this, it's much appreciated. Maybe we'll see you again in here in the future. Until then, good luck and take care

All of the above? Shadowheart's lack of initiative to actively pursue relationships or attachments is honestly probably one more bullet point for why she's so important to the Shar cult she's in. She expresses herself quite openly, but it seems consistent that someone else has to take the first step. As you said, Karlach can't. For all his Act 3 design problems Halsin likely would have if he were an Origin, and his code certainly has him acting the role of pest interjecting himself when he thinks he has a shot to shoot.

In terms of what's stated, there's that pair of rings that have a whole story about a Justiciar who built someone up into loving her completely, enough to accept a ring from her. It was to take advantage of him so he would unwittingly tank damage to help her survive, but the game establishes the precedent of this particular brand of distraction decently enough imo. We don't get basically any exposition about the specifics but between that, Shadowheart's comment, and who the current figurehead of the cult in the game happens to be, it all makes sense to me. In my estimation Shadowheart's personal lack of initiative to get some casual fun in the woods (and the way she mentions that if you pitch it to her implies a little past personal experience) is just one more reason she was groomed into such a central role. The player character has to put in a fair amount more effort into assuring her of their sincere interest than pretty much anyone else because she does kind of resist in hopes of being elevated to a position that WILL demand more devotion to Shar, but that's not being demanded of her yet at game start and the more she likes you the less she's willing to pass up the chance while she's able to take it. I think it pretty clear she could easily have ended up liking Karlach enough for that too, and maybe would have even given Gale a chance for at least a dalliance if he ever made a move.

See this I disagree on mostly because as you mention, the Origins were arbitrarily left out of the poly dynamic. Rather than it being out of character for Shadowheart or anyone else for that matter, I see it as a design shortcoming that you can't include anyone else even for example when Karlach fully volunteers herself to be included. Larian decided not to make the effort to fully follow through on that dynamic for reasons only they know, but even if we did know them I bet they'd be equally as baffling as making the endings people expected and deciding not to use them, or rushing the game out a month early.

Certainly she expects faithfulness. And part of that is the expectation that you don't pull shit behind her back which is exactly why she still chastises you about Mizora even while being quite forgiving of it.

-edit- sorry some of this sounds like it's just repeating things you already said in the last few posts, I had to afk in the middle of writing this so I didn't see them until after.