Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion [END SPOILS WARNING] Addressing Karlach (PLEASE PUT SPOILERS IN TAGS)

i agree with you. get my thumps up.

Genuine question, how exactly? Correct me if I'm wrong, DE for Divinity was free update, right? Assuming BG3 would get the same treatment, free update doesn't bring much profit. Of course, some new players could buy the game, but most money is already earned.

Yes, this was discussed some time ago, that this is the easiest way, how to solve the fix engine issue without much effort. Also if the epilogue will take place in the tavern 6 months after the game, it will be very strange, if Tav, Karlach and Wyll will be missing, because they are still in Avernus.

Yeah, it was free update and it did bring new customers. Extended or definitive or gold or remasters etc, blah blah, tend to bring new people. For all games.

1-2 years or more pass and new people will come in to buy the game and definitive edition usually sounds more appealing than base edition. It won't be free for those who didn't get the base game obviously. And yet it works, this is why companies release editions after years down the road.

Edit: the way it works, Larian could say 'new maps, new content, new outfits etc' whatever, and people usually love stuff like that. Boom, new customers.

Ok, let me set the stage for you guys.

After confronting Gortash with Karlach in Wyrm's Crossing he returns to his mansion in the Upper/Noble district forcing the group to hunt him down.

Being the inventor he is the whole mansion should be a steampunk deathtrap filled with traps and watchers. As the party manages to fight their way through the maze they find Gortash in his main room surrounded by improved/monstrous watchers that you need to kill first to take down the magical shield protecting Gortash.

As the battle comes to a close and Gortash lies in the pool of blood Karlach gets ready to deliver the killing blow, Mizora shows up and takes him away to Avernus forcing the party to follow them through the infernal portal that she leaves behind. There we are confronted by Zariel and after a short battle that we loose we are given options. If all persuasion checks fail you are forced to abandon Karlach but if not you end up making a deal.

As the deal is struck Karlach is freed but at what cost? Tav is forced to take her place in Avernus after the illithid threat is gone, serving Zariel for two years. Once those two years have passed Tav comes back to find Karlach married to someone else.

And now I'm going to slowly leave this thread before Orchid hunts me down and tries to kill me LOL



I'm so sorry I couldn't help myself. I had to pop back in and do it, I had to lmao.

It would be interesting to have an option to make a deal with Zariel for Karlachs freedom. Maybe depending on the players choice it could lead to Karlach being 'cured' of her engine but is forced to sell her soul which would mean that she can stay with Tav but when she dies she'd be going back to Zariel. (this also opens a possibility for Karlach and Tav to find a way out of that deal in the future)

Or have a quest (something like the House of Hope) where Zariel task you to do something for her in exchange for Karlachs cure/freedom.

What they could do, realistically, is give us an epilogue where we hear about what Karlach and company have been up to in Avernus, and make it a super hopeful one. And then for DE they can extend her existing questline somewhat (like they did with Beast in Divinity) so that it has more content, but they might not change the original concept or add an engine fix branch.


Pretty much this lol.

It might just be the cheapest/most realistic option for them given the resources necessary to get it done. I would accept it, while hoping for some more content for Karlach and Wyll because they need it. Two fetch quests can't be all that an origin character gets, even if you don't wanna change her narrative concept.

I ALSO UNDERSTOOD THAT REFERENCE, now run

Although Karlach would know where Tav is and how long that would take, no way in hell (ha) would she do that to them Unless they decide to drop off the face of the earth and go into a coma off-screen, of course...

In all seriousness, I believe the possibility of Tav offering themselves to Zariel in exchange for Karlach has been discussed somewhere in the beginning of this thread, actually! What with them clearly being very strong and all kinds of special, considering all the crap they pulled throughout the game. They might very well be an interesting asset. A good bargaining chip.

And that would one heck of a 'trade-off' for Karlach, too :")

Karlach would never agree to that, and if we did it anyway, she would hate us for it. Would it be a price worth paying?

You're evil, you know that?

Knowing Karlach though, she'd probably go back to Avernus to grab Tav and carry their ass out of hell.

Shoot for the stars but hope to hit the moon, as they say.

I really like that idea, because it's halfway between an epilogue and a DLC, and it's much cheaper to make while still offering some kind of agency to the player.

Free for the people who own the game, but a Definitive Edition can entice people who don't own it to buy it.

Tbh I don't think she would hate Tav for exchanging themselves for her. Hurt, pissed, yeah, sure, never ever would she want them to do something like that, but it's not a hate-worthy sentiment. Heartbreak, maybe. She's definitely the type to be like "DID I FUCKING ASK YOU TO SACRIFICE YOURSELF FOR ME".

If it's like a service contract and not a 'sell soul forever' deal (I don't think Karlach's soul is sold to Zariel, it's never mentioned, she's more of a physical slave mixed with a gun for (forced) 'hire'). Selling your soul might elicit stronger emotions, definitely.

But also if the deal with Raphael is any indication, her reaction would be less hate and more "How do I get your stupid ass out of this" (agree with Orchid there).

Now, is it a worthy price if she does 'hate' us - roleplaying question, I guess. My Tav would take her being alive somewhere else and wanting nothing to do with her over her being dead, no hesitation.

You're not just sacrificing yourself for her. You're selling yourself to Zariel. You're essentially doing to yourself what Gortash did to her. Not only will she be heartbroken that you're now enslaved but she will be doubly hurt by the fact that you've enslaved yourself to the one that enslaved her. Even if it's temporary.

Made an account specifically to rant on this issue. Karlach is a more likable character than even Gale or Astarion. Shadowheart is waifu, Lae'zel's got warrior's devotion, but Karlach is BAE. Who the hell else does tippy-taps while idling in this game? That's right, nobody.

Refund. Review bomb. Hit them where it matters. Let our voices be heard.

#JusticeForKarlach

I mean, yeah, true. But it's not like you'd be doing it out of any particular love for Zariel or agreement with her. I think if a theoretical Tav is going that route to get Zariel off of Karlach's tail (and also I suppose bargain out a new upgraded heart for her, to justify the means) then it's clearly a Tav who's on Karlach's side and therefore likely despises Zariel for what was done to her. Therefore they're also gritting their teeth and bowing their head to a person they despise, likely signing themselves off to object misery for the duration of that contract. That loops back to this being a sacrifice and makes them less of an "asshole who is willing to work for ZARIEL" and more of a "dumbass who is too quick to screw up their own life without asking if I want them to do that for me".

I think that would make Tav sort of reminiscent of Wyll. A desire to save someone (the city, the lover) mixed in with sharp desperation of being helpless to - and met with an objectively questionable, but effective offer from an evil entity.

Granted, the city didn't exactly thank Wyll for his sacrifice either, but this would be a whole other sort of an informed situation on Karlach's part. Even if Tav was bound to never tell the truth and forced to pretend they've just switched sides, she'd have to figure stuff out when that switch'd miraculously come with her life being given back to her and such.

Yeah but it won't be that big of a profit compared to the amount of resources they'd have to put into the game to make DE. Realistically, how many new sales they could get? 200k?

First of all that seems like a rather low estimate considering that by 2019 D:OS2, which was less successful than BG3, had sold 7.5 million copies, about a third of which were post Definitive Edition. Second of all let's use your super low figure of 200k, my man that's 12 million dollars. Do you think it costs 12 million dollars to pay VA's and animators to do a few more lines for a new quest and some cutscenes? How much money do you think making a game costs?

It really feels like you're just being bitter about unrelated game companies and are taking it out on Larian.

Thank you, when you actually run the numbers. Its very much in their interest (aswell as their own practice up to this point) to do a DE. And this games been such a success that they dicussed suddenly being open to a dlc down the line. Should tell us that they are not done* with bg3 or that they are going to do minimal effort in the long term.

I could be wrong I hope im not. But ill hold off on doom and gloom until a year has passed and if a DE edition isnt announced or if they havnt fixed karlachs engine by then. Then ill concede *shrug*

Also what could happen is that decide to do a physical release and make it a definitive edition as that, which not only would boost sales because people've been asking for a disc (that'd be two for this game) forever, but also to make it worthwhile for those that already purchased the game AND those that are new to the game.
Imagine that it'd be easier as an owner of the game on cloud, as an addition in form of DLC or even free of charge. But as a disc, it'd boost sales for the game on a new level AS WELL as being a DE with tons of new content. For one, I just introduced my partner to BG3 today and already mentioned a few things in first minutes of the game and CC that weren't there 2 months ago that have been added and...man it does add up. They care.