Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion Shadowheart Romance and the Hidden Fetish - (Spoilers inside)

But we're talking about SH, right? She never agreed to be exclusive and indeed she is open to idea of involving others so . . .

I don't remember the conversation at the end of the Temple of Shar but I would have noticed if she said "only with you". If you have a video that contradicts it I'll watch but otherwise I think that an imagined conversation.

Sure if none of it existed you'd be right. But it does exist, and that allows what I said to be true. And I will never agree those choices should be wholesale removed from the game. I would much rather they finish developing the dynamic to be better. This is of course still with exception to Halsin whose behavior if you turn him down is unacceptable and needs to be adjusted.

5 of those are with Shadowheart. I've said that to you about 3 times now. You're just repeating yourself with no arguments left to be made.

What is your point, exactly, other than ignoring what I said, and ignoring what is said in game?

One way or another, it needs to be changed. As it stands it's inconsistent, because they exist in a vacuum that has no writing to back up why they exist. That's the whole problem.

If he wants to go the direction where he makes it actually make sense, that's his choice to make. And it will take a LOT more work than just removing them, because oh boy is there a lot of dialogue in the game that would have to be changed and added.

But nobody's going to tell you you're wrong if you prefer these interactions. I will tell you you are wrong if you say they make sense in their current context.

What? When, exactly, does she say that? I get that you are saying it but I think you are imagining it. Evidence please.

You might've wanted to read more than 5 posts if you're going to be asking for evidence while you yourself say "things make sense because they happen off screen." But here, out of courtesy. Here's the full quote from a post I made on page 31:

When you start romancing Karlach:
It is not mentioned that it's because of her situation. Otherwise, she'd be interested in hooking up after Karlach dies, no? But she's just straight up not interested in sharing. And well.. lets just remember this is what she says if you choose her over Karlach.
So it's quite clear she just doesn't want to share. She's straight up happy you dump Karlach and only feels a little sorry for her. The last line is defining that she wants you specifically, but if that's not enough, this is the reply if you ask for open/poly with Wyll.
Those are not the words of a person that's open to sharing. Ever. Because nothing at all ever indicates that she'd be any more of a spare lover to you with Wyll, Karlach, Gale, Astarion or Lae'zel than she would be with Halsin.

Since I don't have any of the problems with Shadowheart's content in general that you do, I see things different. If they fix Halsin to respect consent, that pretty much solves the basic necessities I think need to be addressed. Second on the list is his general characterization in Act 3 being so wildly out of character compared to who we get to know before then, a problem completely unique to him and the circumstances of his inclusion as a companion in development. Third on the list if they get ambitious is yes a lot of work to follow through on developing better poly dynamics involving Origins in a better way than was done with Halsin, but that's still better to hope for than deleting options entirely imo.

I don't think it needs to be changed but one place I would like to see is to invite nocturne into the relationship. I got the sense they were more than friends once.

And there is a problem. Earlier I argued basically the same point, but I was met with the following counterarguments, which shouldn't be ignored IMO (I'll copy the parts that are most important to me, I'm sorry for not including everything):

- In relation to her saying "There's an idea...":


- About her basically telling that she thought about Halsin many times and fantasized about him:


For some added context:
It is not shown in the video I linked previously, but it possible to navigate drow conversation in a way that results in SH saying "There's an idea..." before player suggests it, by asking questions, so it results in SH saying "We should have a foursome with some sex workers.", not the player.

But they are OPTIONAL. Her main romance is written as monogamous so that is the canon experience.

The main Absolute story is the canon experience, everything else that's optional is simply just for fun and more stuff to do. They become part of the players individual story, if they choose to do it. But when it comes down to it, it doesn't matter if you do it at all because it doesn't affect the main story. These optional things simply can't be considered canon because that wouldn't make any sense.

The entire romance is optional so again, I'm going to stop here as I will not engage with your opinions about canon.

Well they gave Tav a crappy line with Karlach - "I'm not swan?" Yuk.

But, again, doesn't seem mono to me. Sounds like a gracious response to someone who is announcing themselves to be a free agent.

(very) unpopular opinion: I don't think Karlach is very well written.

On Wyll, that is undoubtedly the response of someone poly.

"Wyll comes from an old, traditional line. I doubt his family would like their heir to introduce them to his lover's lover."

Notice she's putting it on Wyll and his family not her own inclinations.


"In truth, I don't think I'd want to be your spare lover." It's a dig - SH has sharp edges - but I read it as "I don't want to your secondary, I want to your primary"

Read the quotes I posted over from page 31 and tell me how it makes sense that she will accept poly/open with Halsin but not with the characters that she was way more attracted to.

It requires so much suspension of belief that it's just incredibly bad, inconsistent writing. That's the whole problem. And yes, Halsin's characterization in act 3 is incredibly bad right now. That's why the Halsin thread is even longer than this one.

I personally would prefer them deleting these vacuumed scenarios than pull them out of the vacuum and write additional dialogue around them so they make sense. But either way, I'd be content, because what bothers me is the inconsistent out of character replies that have no consequences. I just think that it would cost too much time that I'd prefer they spent on - for example - superior epilogues, and therefore removing these interactions is just significantly easier because it's much less work.

Nocturne herself heavily implies it was a platonic relationship, so they'd have to tweak her dialogue a bit to make that work, but not much. I was actually quite surprised by that myself.

Even if you don't romance her though she shows no interest in Halsin or polyamory. Lae'zel has casual sex with one of the guys at the grove party and you aren't romancing her. Why does SH not show any interest in Halsin or anyone then?

Indeed, it's her graciously bowing out. Until you decline Karlach for her, then she hardly feels bad for her because she's happy she got you. Even though she has flirted a lot with Karlach and therefore evidently cares for her. But not enough to want a relationship with her, because she wants mono with you.

So what she says that backs you up if you ignore the rest is true, and what she says that proves you wrong and blatantly states she's mono is just her lying?

Ok.

Here's what someone who doesn't assume she's lying about everything that's convenient for your argument sees: She gives an excuse as to why Wyll doesn't want it, but then speaks the truth about why she doesn't want it. And the reason she doesn't want it is because she wants you alone. With nobody else involved. I think they have a word for those type of relationships.

That's interesting. I felt like Nocturne was trying to jog memories and was sad to see they didn't emerge. I think it was the braiding hair line. I also felt like the noblestalk conversation was an analogue for nocturne coming out as trans. Funny how different people read different things into the same conversation, isn't it?

I responded to that earlier. SHE IS NOT SAYING SHE"S MONO. She's saying "not with X, not as a secondary"

You do realize that the you are the one arguing against the dialogue in the game, right? You are reading monogamy into a person who clearly expresses an interest in having others in the relationship. Halsin doesn't threaten her, Wyll does. Wyll would demand monogamy.

Nocturne called it "small things you would've forgotten anyway even without the memory loss". I think she wouldn't have worded it that way if it was something more serious, but I can understand if you assume Nocturne simply didn't want to stir shit because Nocturne knew Shadowheart was in a new relationship with the person right next to her. This situation is actually somewhat up to interpretation, indeed.

You never, ever, explained why Wyll, Karlach, Lae'zel, Astarion or Gale would threaten her, but Halsin not. Except that supposedly, this somehow happened off screen.

Well, I think it didn't happen off screen. I guess we are at an impasse. Do you have proof it happened off screen?

Also I'm not sure in what world the line "In truth, I don't think I'd want to be your spare lover. I'd always want more of you than you'd have to spare. Better perhaps to bow out with dignity." implies "clear interest in having others in the relationship." Except if you read the line in the completely other direction, somehow.

I generally think that's something that would be adjusted about the interactions if they did fix Halsin's Act 3 characterization so that's just me not thinking it needed to be specified separately.