Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
The only point that I disagree with is that Daisy was flawed because she was so obviously evil.

I mean, she was meant to be evil, obviously, but she could've been a bit covert about it.

My personal theory was always that Daisy was disguised Absolute. But also the thing is, I always felt that there should've been more 'higher' powers involved. So the Absolute is obviously the Elder Brain (that later becomes the Netherbrain), that was always obvious. Then there was the person locked in the 'mysterious artifact' which turned out to be Orpheus (a lot of people thought it might've been Gith herself, except that whenever you meddled with the box in EA it was kind of stated that it was an ancient gith general, a male one, so no Gith) but I found it quite curious that the Prism didn't want to be handed to Voss in EA, which means that indeed there was something else going on there... Well, it was Voss who defeated and handed Orpheus over to 1st Vlaakith, so maybe he was afraid Voss still served her? I dunno, pure speculation. And we'll probably never know cause Emperor was inserted into the Prism for 'reasons'.

But regardless, the "evil" mind flayer powers would've come from Daisy/tadpole while there might've been a possibility for Orpheus trying to help us block Daisy's dreams and giving us entirely new ones where we could've gotten to know him more (since yeah, currently Orpheus is underdeveloped as heck, yet he knows about the Githyanki egg, hmmm) and maybe gotten some 'good path' oriented powers like some sort of mind shields and whatnot more akin to what the Prism was doing for us.

And more neutral path would probably be using tadpoles up to a certain point (like seeing the dream of BG on fire maybe?) and then you could entirely reject that scenario and seek 'help'.

Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
A question for both Moongerm and Nicotta - what did you think of Raphael and Mizorra? Did you not see them as obviously evil? Did that make them worse vilians?

I think both of them were written with something different in mind in the EA... I find both of them quite likeable and somewhat well written currently but I will break it down.

Mizora WAS supposed appear in a human guise at some point (there are even renders of that)... which she never uses in game currently. Such a missed opportunity too, but I guess Wyll's major story rewrites are to blame. Also when Mizora comes to renegotiate the pact, like you said there should be an option to let it run until it expires in 6 months, or maybe, I dunno, let Wyll choose? Lae'zel can choose for herself (reject Vlaakith), Shadowheart chooses for herself (reject Shar), Gale chooses to hand over the Crown of Karsus to Mystra by default (unless steered toward evil by you, but by default he's Mystra's best puppy) and Wyll doesn't have that option?! Sure, he will choose to become the 'Blade of Avernus' when asked, but it's the only place where you can ask him for his input in his fate, why? Also, why is Mizora hanging around when Wyll broke the pact anyway? She feels kind of shoe-horned to stick around in this particular scenario. I did 2 runs btw. one where Wyll broke the pact and the other where he kept it to save his father and aside from the possible cringey Mizora 'romance' her lines to the events involving Wyll barely change, again, blame the rewrite. I think the original Mizora would've been a fascinating character, sure the current one is likeable enough, she feels more like a joke not a threat.

Raphael, Raphael... the mastermind behind so many plots. Just like you I would never have taken his deal, but I think again originally he had a different role to play and was rewritten to accommodate Emperor and given a McGuffin to free Orpheus. I do genuinely believe that his original offer of removing tadpoles was legit (and he would be the 3rd higher power I mentioned earlier) but that obviously would've cost us MORE than Karsus' Crown. Very likely our damn souls. Still, when it comes to villains in BG3 - I loooooooooooooooooooooooove Raphael, such a climactic fight too! Entire House of Hope is just beautifully written barring some small glitches and minuscule plot holes. But seriously, when Raphael offered me the Orphic Hammer my 1st gut feeling was: 'this is a trap, there is definitely another way to get it!' and I went with that, Lae'zel berated me for that and said she admired my conviction too. So I was satisfied with that outcome.

Last edited by Nicottia; 18/10/23 05:34 PM.