Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion [END SPOILS WARNING] Addressing Karlach (PLEASE PUT SPOILERS IN TAGS)

I'm not sure. Maybe. She pours out her heart and soul into how unfair it all is, narratively implying that there's no solution to her problem (hence the "we did all we could" part of her quest). If you just get right back into it, the tone change will be jarring.

Perhaps you keep the tone and the fix if you have her give up on trying to find one but you don't. Then you could have an ending where she tells you how much she loves you for not giving up on her even when she gave up on herself.

I've been following the thread for few day now but decided to add my opinion. I don't quite understand the thread and the whole discussion, you guys got entire patch dedicated just for you, what else do you want? Karlach's story is great, it's all about making peace with the inevetable and making best of your remaining life. She gets her revenge on Gortash and now can spend her last moments with you (or whoever she romanced if you're not playing Tav) and it's beautiful, why would you want to dimnish the narration with some last second miracle or whatever? That would take away the impact of the story and cheapen it

Actually, they've been working until way after Patch 2. If it was just voicelines, it wouldn't take that long. But voicelines coupled with motion capture take a very long time. Here's Emma Gregory (Minthara) thanking BG3's voice and performance director as well as the voice and mocap production company almost a month after Patch 2. They're probably still recording stuff with the others, likely for the epilogues.

What does it change? Well, it defeats your narrative that they won't do anything because they don't have to, given that they are doing a lot of things they apparently didn't need to do.

The game having a lot of endings doesn't preclude DLCs. It's the flags that are the problem. Wiring them would be a hassle regardless if it's a side story or not. That's why the path of least resistance for a Karlach fix is an epilogue.

However, Larian almost bankrupting themselves over Divinity and releasing a free definitive edition should tell you that they'll go all out for BG3. Again, that's not to say we'll get what we want, but they're definitely not done with expanding the game.

What we want is to be able to affect what happens to Karlach. As it stands, you can't. The only choices that truly matter for her story are at the pier -- the very end.

Karlach's questline is incredibly short when compared to the other origin characters -- two fetch quests and a boss fight that you need to do anyway. Meanwhile, the others get entire zones, dedicated bosses, and decently long questlines.

As for her revenge, her speech right after killing Gortash spells out how empty that vengeance was for her. She is at her lowest point at that moment, having realized it's all hopeless, and killing him did nothing.

Her last meaningful moment with you after that is her burning up at the pier. That's not beautiful, it's horrifying. She's seconds away from bursting into flame, and you have to decide if you let her die or if she goes back to the place she so desperately wanted to escape.

Even if you believe that her story is about acceptance, that's not what you do most of the time. You spend most of your time with her hunting for a solution, rather than living it out. Karlach herself doesn't come to terms with her situation until after confronting Gortash.

Stories about acceptance like the Fault in Our Stars don't waste time hoping for a solution, they give the characters closure and quality time with each other before they meet their end. We barely have any quality time with Karlach and any semblance of closure by killing Gortash is rendered meaningless because it changed nothing.

What truly cheapens her story is that it's a tragedy that's forced upon us. We're not even allowed to try and fail to help her. We just watch from the sidelines. Isn't this game supposed to be about choices and weaving your own fate? Where is that for Karlach?

The bigger problem, however, is that none of what's happening to her is believable in a DnD setting. You have to go out of your way to stop any potential solutions from being available. What's the point of the Gondians, the enriched infernal iron, all the magic, gods, and demons? You're not allowed to pursue any of them. How Gale was saved was quite literally an act of god, yet his story wasn't cheapened because of it.

Given how lacking Karlach's content is, it will take more than one patch for her to even feel like an origin character, rather than a secondary recruit. She and Wyll got the short end of the stick.

The fact they almost bankrupted and had stand on their heads to not go out of business should prove me wrong? Divinity's DE was a desperation, BG3 DE would be a waste of resources. There is literally zero reason to waste so many resources, DE won't bring much attention to the game, and will cost a fortune. So why would they waste so much money if literally 99% of their fans are not even happy, 99% of fans treats them as gaming industry's messiah

Also what does it change that Minthata's VA is back? Minthara, aka the most bugged companion needs some work, cool. So tell me what does it change huh? Its Minthara getting something new not Karlach

I agree with this so very strongly that I logged back in just to reply with support.

Really, we’re given so many options with other characters…our actions can very seriously change the entire trajectories of the lives of these people, except Karlach who we can just pat on the back.

Plus…as you said, DND is full of deus ex machina workarounds. Is there literally no dwarf in all the city who’s just a little more skilled than Damon, and could this permanently fix her engine?

Can’t Akabi, a literal genie, just wish her engine fixed as a reward for winning his dumb game?

I’ll stop at those two examples because I’ll flood the thread with all the possibilities. If some players like tragedy, I support that, let them choose a tragic ending for any of the characters; for the rest of us, we could also have a fluffy ending choice and that wouldn’t restrict anyone else’s choices.

Yes, it should prove you wrong. They went above and beyond to polish that game, even though they could've just moved on to the next project. If they were desperate for money, they wouldn't have made the DE free for owners of the base game.

Plenty of studios make bank with definitive editions. Just look at Rockstar and their GTA trilogy remakes.

It's not just fans but the entire gaming community that treats them with reverence. Anything that Larian does will be watched by the gaming community. So DE will bring attention to the game. How much it costs depends on what they add to it, but they can recoup their costs and make a pretty penny out of a second round of sales if what they have is enticing enough.

She's back because she's recording new lines and new scenes. Why do that, rather than only fixing the bugs that are locking out her existing lines? If Minthara's back, then so is Karlach and all the others.

Except you can change her fate and you can convince her to keep fighting, hell, there's entire cutscene at the end added specifically because players requested it, how do you want even more than that? And we have quite plenty of quality time with Karlach across the acts, obviously it could be more but this is rpg not dating simulator. I can agree that her questline is a bit shorter than some companions but it's still great and nicely ties to the main story with Gortash, makes her feel like a main character, other companions don't have that. As for solutions, well, Dammon tried and failed, we didn't find anything useful with Gortash so yeah, we're kinda out of options. Obviously you can try some gymnastics with DnD mechanics, but with ridiculous options the game offers it would be horrible for the narration because basically everything could be solved with Wish, some divine intervention or whatever so i'm happy Larian sticked to their story. It's a bit similar to the Cyberpunk story, we try many different solutions and fail, that doesn't mean the story isn't rewarding or great. I also don't know why people bring up Wyll constantly, his story is also great so I don't know what more you'd like for him, Halsin for example doesn't have his own dungeon but is still good character

@BitterSchizo, you have more than made your point, probably rather too heatedly, that you don't believe Larian will make changes to Karlach's ending. That is not on topic here. Whether or not Larian will do something is irrelevant to the question of whether or not people want them to. So let's not derail the thread with any further posts from you on that subject.

You can change her fate only at the very end (or if you decide to turn her into a mindflayer). She doesn't need much convincing to fight with you until the end. That's what she wanted to do before and after her confrontation with Gortash. You have to play your cards very badly in order for her to leave your party. The only thing she needs convincing of is whether to go back to Avernus or not, which happens at the end.

That Avernus cutscene is not what players requested. What we've been requesting from the start was a way to fix her. That scene was added because, before that, the Avernus choice literally ended with a cut to black, meaning a cutscene should've been there but was missing. That they added it in such a short amount of time is awesome but it's not what most of us were talking about in our feedback.

By quality time, I don't mean dating. I mean having heart-to-heart moments, her spending time with people that she knows, and getting some actual closure. She even suggests going out to dinner with a friend in the city. Why not do that? The scavenger hunt just wastes the time she could've spent doing that instead.

Her questline is very, very short. Especially when you compare it to Astarion, Shadowheart, or Lae'zel.

Both Shadowheart and Lae'zel's questlines were tailor-made for the main story. Lae'zel's creche subplot is a major part of Act 1, while Act 2 is pretty much Shadowheart's turf. Karlach's only meaningful connection to the main story is Gortash, and that ends quickly. Just look at this post to get an idea of how staggering the difference is.

Hard to say she feels like an MC when you can ignore her entire questline and nothing much changes.

Astarion has more of a sidequest going, but it's fully fleshed out. Gale doesn't get much out of the main story, but he has a good thing going for him in his own right (if a bit rushed). Wyll on the other hand feels sidelined by the Emperor in his own story. Halsin isn't an origin character, so not having any dedicated content for him is to be expected.

Back to Karlach -- you yourself said it. We try (once!) with Dammon. He tells us that if he's worth his salt, he'd have figured something out by the next time we meet. Yet, when we meet him again he says we're out of luck. Not worth his salt, I guess? That's a very abrupt and disappointing development. There's not even an attempt at something new here.

As for Gortash, he's directly connected to the quest to save the Gondians. They are infernal engine mechanics who built the Steel Watch (which drop enriched infernal iron). Saving them is infamously frustrating to do and could've yielded a hard-won solution for Karlach, but we're not allowed to pursue that path.

Cyberpunk's story is one of tragedy from the get-go. You also try and fail multiple times, not just once, and even then if you play your cards right, you can get a hopeful open ending where you're free from the shackles that bound you to Night City and given a chance to save yourself.

Dammon didn't try, gondians didn't try, Mizora didn't try, Raphael didn't try and so on. Yet again and again and again. This whole thread is about the possibility of fixing her, which was in the game but was removed gods know why. In every corner in act 3 there is a clue, that you will fix her, but you cannot, because the game doesn't allow you to try it. And I don't talk about some dnd resurrection scrolls and similar, but about valid possibilities already implemented in the game.

I get the possibilities brought forth for a potentially different ending. As for the way they were not implemented, who knows. It is easy to sit and the cheap seats and arm chair quarterback decisions made for plot line of game development after the devs have put in a ton of work.

I for one however LOVE the storyline they have in place for Karlach. It is not the all the world will be great ending for sure. However at the end when Wyll and I let her know she will never be alone. When three close friends head forth, not to sit around in leisure bit to tackle another adventure together, that to me was almost a tear jerk ending. Then when she smiles and pulls out those cigars, I was laughing and crying all at the same time. That smile and attitude did me in and then we are off to deal with what comes next.

That to me was an amazing ending to her story and fitting for her, a chance to be a warrior on a noble mission of visiting a little payback on those that deserved it. Never alone, always with friends and loved ones.

The cigar moment to me was amazing, I enjoy weekly a night out with my best friend having a cigar and a glass of brandy. Those moments to real comradery are so rare in our world today so that scene did me in.

I like the cigar ending on Avernus as well, but I honestly would not have if I romanced her, so I understand the frustration from people. I send Wyll with her and it's all good, I'm happy for them, since neither have as much to look forward to on Faerun anyway (unless I romance Wyll, then there's really no positive outcome). But every other origin companion has the possibility to have a 'settle down together' ending. Giving one of those to Karlach doesn't mean they need to remove the Avernus ending, it would just give people the choice to do otherwise.

Even if her questline is a bit shorter, it's still great and fully fleshed and finished very well. Dammon tried and failed, Gondians and Gortash's tech couldn't help so it's time to accept the harsh reality, like come on how many more things we should try for you to change opinion?(we don't take into consideration cheesy solutions like ressurection scroll etc). Just like Cyberpunk, her story is tragedy and it's a great one, I don't see a reason why this should be changed and even then you still can get hopeful ending in Avernus. As for convincing her, the decision could be made earlier but would that change anything really? She's a stubborn character so it's obvious she'd try to do things her way and could be convinced only at the very end when there is no other choice.


But he did try but couldn't fix her. Gortash and Gondians also didn't have solution. Mizora and Raphael are demons, demons already enslaved her before, why would she trust them? The game allows you to try but it's hopeless, pretty much like V's story which is what makes it so great and allows us to appreciate the time we have left with Karlach

If ppl like her ending thats fine? Its been said through out this thread ADDING an OPTION to save her/ fix her ending doesnt dimmish narration or take away from what the few ppl who like her story....like about it? It just gives us an option to adjust her fate more in line with the others.

And once again for a game of 17k supposed* endings. I dont think its to much to ask to just literally use any of the in game options that are teased to the players but we are never given an option to pursue.

I mean come on ppl. This is an RPG where choice is suppose to matter through out the game. Where you influence your companions from anywhere from redemption to damnation to bloody squidwards.
And for most of the companions they did a great job on that with a few minor hiccups.

But karlach? - two fetch quests that you can ignore at no cost. To then decide she dies. Dies in spirit as a squid or goes back to hell the place for her trauma the place she spends 3 acts actively sounding mad and terrified of.

Give me a break.
If astarions only options were to become ascended or die for cazador for us to gain an ally. After 3 acts of trying to save him. I think alot of astarion fans would understand the feelings we have

I think this is not true. There is zero possibility of try. Gondians have the fix and where is dialogue option "please try to install her new engine"? You cannot ask for it. Mizora is closest person to Zariel and where is possibility to ask her. ”Hi Mizora, can you help me?" No, you can't. Same with almighty Raphael and Dammon is maybe the only one where is a little bit of try, but nothing more. Rest of the game he just repeating I'm trying. Even if all these possibilities fail at the end, it will be ok. But you can't even ask, that's the issue in game where everything is possible with 17000 endings.

They didn't care about straight up lying to their fans, what makes you think they gonna care about some angry minority of fans, that is if there even will be one

No? Just no lol what are you even talking about