Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion Regarding Wyll's Romance [includes new Karlach post-game spoilers]

It didn't break my romance with Astarion (had that cutscene with Wyll a few days ago and also chose the turn away option), patch 3 reshuffled some Astarion romance flags though (like you only get the 'you are incredible' confession after finishing Raphael's request but before talking to Araj with Astarion - otherwise you trigger the 'I wanted to thank you' confession - I personally prefer the 'incredible' one - you still need to have the Moonrise Towers infiltration quest progressed for both anyway).

I also don't like what patch 3 did to Gale on his friendship path. He was way nicer prior to the patch, now he's just a douchebag once you get his invitation to watch the stars together.

My theory is, that the added option to imagine a friendly dinner with Gale (instead of a kiss or a punch in the face) that was supposed to lead to friendly relationships, was not associated with such relationships. Simply because the friendly path does not exist. Instead, when you choose this option it is registered as a "punch in the face" and the "relationships" progress on the path of harsh rejection. With everything bound to it.

Nah, they just screwed up the triggers with the patch. I played it out again in a playthrough where we were buddies and in the original playthrough (played out before patch 3) he responded as such. Playing it out again now, we suddenly aren't anymore.

Never got the weave scene in that playthrough so it's unrelated to that. Just purely approval based and now it treats you as if you have low approval with him.

Honestly, I much prefer it to be a bug. Patch 4 can not come soon enough! (Even if you can not help but wonder what will be broken this time)

If they had given Wyll just a few more lines with Tav it could have been magic. Wyll is the only one who gives me that happily-ever-after fairytale vibe. So, I was kinda surprised how fast it cooled down.
Part of the problem I had with it is that whenever you talk to him he mentioned his father. And I know that's part of his story arc. But I found myself thinking: "If you say 'my father' one more time I'm going to slap you." And yes, he also does this when you don't romance him. But when you do romance him, it feels like Tav is only an afterthought. A couple of romantic interactions with Tav, where he doesn't mention his father, could have prevented this.

And don't even get me started on Duke Ravengard. He's a 'tell, don't show character'. We are constantly told that he's so important but .

I haven't romanced Wyll with Tav yet. The extra bit of romance content you get as a Durge does help to bridge the gap, considering how little romance content there is overall. Plus Wyll really feels like moral support if you're going for redemption, with how much good advice he generally gives.

^ This. I even have screenshots of his patch 1/2 response (after the friendly dinner option was added and I used it) and patch 3. Spoiler tagging it cause those pics take a lot of space, but you can see that his responses are different as night and day and I was a little taken aback.


So is Mizora once you exhaust all of her dialogue options... And what da heck is Mizora even doing in camp once you break Wyll's pact is a mystery to me.

But honestly? I think the game would get improved a lot from a very simple change, if Larian enabled the party banters where companions comment on Tav/Durge's active romance and all changes to the parties involved.

Aside from companions flirting with each other, eg. Wyll commenting on Lae and SH's eyes, or Astarion calling SH a flower and enjoying his walks with Gale (whatever that means lol) I have never heard the Tav romance specific ones. Last time I heard some it was in EA and obviously a lot of them got changed/added since then. Especially with Wyll's voice actor change.

Great video! Thanks. Had no idea about most of these banters.

If it wasn't for that video I wouldn't know about any of them either. It just sucks that they are in game's files but for whatever reason they are disabled and I have no idea why that is. Maybe Larian has a problem properly flagging romance banters or something so they keep it disabled until they fix it? I can only guess.

Sure, some you can hear in the game and again everything is so damn front loaded. It's so easy to hear all of the banters super early and have some new ones get triggered once whatever criteria is met. Eg. Astarion's vampirism or Gale's orb.

Exactly! She says something about helping for the final battle but she doesn't. And if that refers to Wyll's warlock powers it would make no sense, since he's still bound to the contract for 6 more months. So he would still have those powers anyway.

Afaik, Mizora is now waiting for something bad to happen with Duke Revengard, because somehow Wyll's refusal to sacrifice his soul for the second time sealed another deal that Duke has to die. Somewhen.

On the general topic of Wyll's romance, I just had a thought due to another discussion... Why can people who didn't start Wyll's romance in Act 1 get the dance in Act 2 at all? Mustn't it actually be a bug? Every other source I'm seeing says that, for other companions, you have to start their romance in Act 1 to be able to get romance content in Act 2.

I hate that we have no response we can make to this. Like... we just have to let her hang around the Duke when she's literally said she's waiting to make sure he dies after all.

She does break the contract entirely (depending on your choices regarding his father's fate), there's no more 6 month wait. The 6 month deal you make in act 2 is more or less just a red herring since it'll never come to pass unless you personally kill his father - Mizora will always return with a "all or nothing" deal in act 3. Unless she doesn't offer to break the deal completely if you never did the 6 month deal? That I don't know.

Either way, she just lets him keep his powers until the Absolute is dealt with because she wants revenge for them capturing her. That's why she's sticking around.


It just means his romance doesn't actually start in act 1. And yes, every other companion needs to start in act 1. Lae'zel/Astarion want to bang you, Gale wants the weave scene, Shadowheart wants her date, Karlach wants confirmation you want her. Wyll.. nothing. Though if you're rude to him perhaps you'll never get the dance scene, even with high approval? Unlikely though.

It even seems to be queued behind other romances. I have a save where I'm on the path for both Karlach and Shadowheart, and I can only get the dance scene after I triggered the Karlach cutscene (which won't happen until you fix her up at Dammon) and then break it off with either of them.

I'm not sure about that. Something must be flagged in the Act 1 party scene, because some dialogue choices result in Wyll saying "There will be another time for us." Then, when the party's over, you have the option to go to sleep thinking of him. If you don't choose the more romantic dialogue options, that choice when going to bed later doesn't appear. For the going-to-bed scene to have those two possible states, the game must have recorded whether you tried to initiate something. To me, at least, it feels way more likely that there's a mistake later in Act 2, so the game should be checking for whatever flag was set at the party but it's actually triggering for everyone.

I mean, the alternative is that the developers didn't want to close off Wyll's romance from people who didn't talk with him in the right way at the party. But why choose that approach for just him when it seems like every other origin companion takes into account what you did with them in Act 1?

Ah, so you can actually get the party dreaming option for Wyll. Then instead, his romance is the only one you can actually pursue without starting it in act 1.

He is the only companion who doesn't have an option to start it outside of the party, that might be the reason. Lae'zel and Shadowheart get an approval based dialogue option that starts it, Gale gets the weave scene during a long rest based on approval, Karlach gets an unavoidable long rest cutscene based on approval. Astarion's the only one I'm not sure of because he never likes me enough in act 1, but I think it's similar to Lae'zel and Shadowheart. Wyll never got any dialogue option for me and I never got to kiss him at the party so I assume he's like Lae'zel - if you are already on the romance path for too many others before triggering the party, he's not interested (at that point, anyhow).

Astarion will proposition you if he likes you enough. Gale used to do that too, but he gets bugged in a different way with every patch so it might not be the case these days.

The first time I got Wyll's dancing scene was the first time I played Durge. Gale wasn't with us and couldn't insert himself into the second romance slot anymore, so poor Wyll who was mostly staying in camp got it. Funny how this game works.

So Wyll gets less romance content than all other companions in Act 1? That's disappointing.

What you're saying does agree with my experience so far. I'm replaying my Durge at the moment and really focusing on trying to improve companion opinion this time so I get more access to their content. Wyll is again effortlessly at 100 halfway through Act 1, but with some of the other characters at higher approval I'm seeing way more content. Like Karlach waking me up during a long rest, as you described, something I never saw before. Also, this time Astarion is actively trying to romance me, rather than only having the option at the party if I choose "Knowing you, it probably is". And I saw several scenes with him that I never saw in my original playthrough, like the mirror scene, or him asking whose blood I'd drink. I'm mostly getting the same options as before with Lae'zel, Shadowheart, and Gale. In any case, I have reloaded the party a few times and tried out different choices, and I discovered that taking any romance option with another companion will shut you out of the possibility of having the romantic dialogue with Wyll. This seemed consistent with, for instance, the fact that you won't be able to engage with Lae'zel or Astarion romantically at the party if you already agreed to see Shadowheart afterwards. However, something that didn't initially register with me, but now seems relevant, is that you can kiss Wyll at the party (if you talk to him first) and it won't cut you off from trying a romance with other characters. So I guess trying to initiate his romance sets some kind of flag, but not others?

Why is Wyll treated so differently? Because of his rewrite?

Maybe. Same with Halsin - when all flags are already set (and all are a mess but this is another story) you only have so much wiggle room to insert something else. This is what they came up with.