Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion Fan club of Minthara

Pls, make up your mind - it's either exploitation of a brainwashed-by-Absolute-cultist or her actually acting out of her own voilition (which is still weird af as the Netherbrain's control over her slowly fades away for a couple of (?) hours).
Might be wrong, but "real" Minthy would not worship the Absolute. Her devotion comes from the mind-control as she later explains.

Yes, that makes the most sense. It's the most practical approach for the commander - flee to fight another day. Her dying alone would've not helped the Absolute in any way. "Daughter of Lolth" mod pretty much does that.

She is acting out of her own volition, as someone who has been exiled, and someone who worships the Absolute that has had a brief moment of clarity. Is that easier to understand? The mind-control doesn’t erase her entire personality, mind you. It makes it so the Absolute should be the only thing that revolves around her life.

She is in a vulnerable state, yes, but she is completely sober and her senses are not impaired. She still has coherent thoughts, even if they are reckless in nature, and she has never expressed any regret in her choice to spend that night with you. If you want to look at it as exploitation, that's fine. I just personally would not go that far. Exploitation is a very strong word for me - it implies that the people who choose to indulge in her offer are malicious, when that is clearly not the case.

The real Minthara would not worship the Absolute. No one would. The ones who believe in the Absolute without having the tadpoles implanted in them lack sufficient knowledge/are very naive. I don’t see why this even needs to be brought up. Glad we could agree on the recruitment part though

A Menzoberranzan noblewoman would, so long as it follows appropriate decorum, take what they want when they want if they don't see a knife being planted in their back for it. Minthara has all the upbringing and none of the social restraints. She's interested in what any of her family still living in the city would be, displaying power and status. And that's pretty much what she's doing in the dialogue leading to the camp scene: claiming the best prize in the revelry for herself because you proved your power is worthy to her. She's got no decorum stopping her from taking what she wants, and it isn't until afterward that she even mentions the idea of it talking about how she would've made you her consort if she was still living that life.

The Absolute's influence probably would've stopped her, but it didn't exactly because the artifact just fullstop blocks it. If only the writers made that function more consistent.

Exactly.
That admiration for power applies to Minthara in every sense. This was only the catalyst for her actions that night.

I get the point you both were trying to make btw. You think she made the decision to sleep with you under the Absolute’s influence, and the nature becomes dubious if you consider the player might be more knowledgeable. To me, it was clear she just took what she wanted, and that should be all that matters. When the Absolute was silent that night, she could have done literally anything else. She could even push you away (like Halsin did) so she could think about why the Absolute abandoned her, to ruminate her choices, etc. but she didn’t.

I think labeling this as “exploitation” says more about you as a person than anything else. Have you considered it might not be the right term? How about simply making a reckless decision? Now that I can agree with. I too once had a traumatic experience and sought someone’s company for comfort that exact night. The person I indulged myself with was very respectful and I’m still friends with him now. I have no regrets, and nor does Minthara, so why make it an issue?

Anyway, off-topic, but now that I've watched that wonderful interview with Emma Gregory, I find myself wondering if the pregnancy storyline was ever truly explored. She just said it was weird when she got asked and laughed it off lol. She could be being vague on purpose, but I think it's safe to say that storyline was cut very early and they never ended up developing a full-fledged companion quest for her (which is a shame). Fingers crossed they decide to add one for her in the future! Maybe with a better storyline that won't strike the VA as weird.

I don't think she's under the influence by the time the conversation leading to it happens. I consider it exploitative under the circumstance that you gather enough info on True Souls to know they don't know what their own deal is because of the parallel to impaired judgement. Like yes it is definitively what she wants but choosing to indulge while your character is well aware of how vulnerable she really is gets gross. It's just that I almost never avoid finding that info before heading over to the goblins so I feel more strongly about it as a result.

If the character doesn't learn much about True Souls first it's more of a non-problem exactly because she definitively wants it for herself and is otherwise sober. Even the most negative read of that circumstance isn't really related to the scene itself and far more related to the raid and/or the meta knowledge that it was placed there to be the player's reward for eeeeeeevil.

What I'd like is for the artifact to have started working sooner so that the loyalty to the Absolute she conveys AFTER the scene instead gets brought up before it, still while free of the Absolute's influence. That would alleviate it significantly in my eyes, though I'd obviously still prefer the opportunity to talk her down ahead if the scene entirely since she should by all rights be way more receptive than Nere.

I cracked up at this lol.

But yes, I get the angle then. I have never seen this take anywhere else so I’m glad it’s brought a new perspective for me too. I still don’t think it’s “gross” to indulge in what she wants in that moment, with or without that knowledge, especially when you are given the choice to speak about it afterwards - but to each their own. I know some people read the scenes far more deeply than I do and I can respect that.

Hell, I want to be able to free every True Soul I encounter (just to have a little army of my own) but the choice isn’t there. Even persuading Nere didn’t turn him into a hireling, he just runs off and it goes without saying he’ll either be dead or be back in the Absolute’s clutches again sooner or later.

I think it’s important to note The Prism doesn’t exactly grant its powers to anyone willy-nilly? It seemed that way at first, but it's a sentient being and even you had to convince EDIT: The Emperor to free Minsc. It’s definitely something to consider when someone talks of wanting to free Minthara using its help. Overall, I’m actually content with how it is in game and would just prefer a route where she can choose to live for another day without having to mass murder people first.

You don't ask for its help with any origin companions and Nere, tho? You needed to make Empy do as you want with Minsc, not Prism/Orpheus. If you show Prism to Jaheira in Act 2 - it makes her tadpole in jar pop. So yes, it works passively petty much.

Empy doesn't take over until we take out these gith monk guards.

Issue with whole tadpole/Prism unbrainwashing thing is that it's mind-jarringly inconsistent.

I’m suggesting the pre-Emperor inconsistency is related to Orpheus being an actual sentient being who controls that power, even if he is imprisoned for it. Early on, Shadowheart says the Prism has a will of its own, meaning it has to be his will or at least an extension of it. Anyone who is ever alive is inconsistent sometimes so that’s just what I concluded in my head.

EDIT: It would be inaccurate to say The Emperor doesn’t take control until after the gith guards are taken down. I remember he was shown to have control of Orpheus at the start of the scene, but it broke the moment one of the gith guards punched the barrier. So yeah, I think that inconsistency can also be attributed to the fighting that has been going on all this time. Feel free to criticize them for not showing that clear enough though.

I would say I need the evil ending with Minthara. All her crave for power and desire to rule Netherbrain end as same as with anyone else companion. Definitely would like to see maybe 2 thrones together or something like that in the final cutscene with the words "in our name/*any idea*", nothing extraordinary.

Another interview with Emma Gregory which somebody could miss.

Emperor has the control since very beginning. Aren't Tav & CO supposed to be his something of a handpicked task force? But beside that - he's the one who saves you from falling to your death in the intro (given the proximity of the Prism).

In that case, couldn't that inconsistency be attributed to The Emperor instead? We had to convince him to extend that protection to Minsc so he is in control of its powers, no? This is like going back to my earliest point.

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Whatever Larian decides for Minthara, and if they are even seeing this right now, please work on the lack of romance greeting/kiss option first. It makes her romance feel very lacking in comparison to others, like the fact that I can't even tell if I romanced her or not until I get to Act 3 is jarring af.

I'm also trying to be optimistic about them adding a good recruitment but I don't think Larian has made that big of a change storywise since release. The Avernus ending was added because of super high demand, and the assets already existed because it was an actual ending. I hope they end up proving me wrong :c

Yeah, but then again we have True Soul Nere who requires no direct argument with Emperor and Prism doing its thing passively, let alone with all the tadpoled companions we find in Act 1 (not all tadpoled victims on Nauthiloid were protected and were in fact enthralled - best seen in Early Access version of introduction). So it's inconsistent either way, unless Orpheus subconsciously severs the connection to Netherbrain/Absolute somehow.

I'm still hoping they'll add Minthy's good recruitment as this exclusivity doesn't do her any justice. Evil walkthroughs have always been niche, though, it could still use more side-content in Act 2/3 to compensate for tieflings + Wyll/Karlach's evil recruitment at Moonrise if they left us in Act 1/were never recruited in Act 1. Given the context of their personal quests, it only makes sense they'd end up there regardless.

As for lacking romance - even for "ignore Grove" "neutral" path it seems weird you can still romance her, yet gain no proper scenes. Act 1 only (except for Halsin, I guess?) romance scenes were a mistake. Romance progression itself is really off.
Regardless of recruitment she's in dire need of additions. Especially a personal quest as I have mentioned earlier.

Vengeance against Orin + Lolth assassins sent by her big momma could be an acceptable addition. She's pretty much an exile at this point.

A lot of things have changed since EA and it doesn’t need to be brought into discussion because it’s not really canon though? The tadpoled companions we find in Act 1 are shown to need no protection at first and when we met them, the Emperor likely extended his protection to gain our trust. Meanwhile, Minsc and Minthara were already under the Absolute’s thrall so they’re entirely different cases.

Persuading Nere is the only outlier in this case that I’m even willing to chalk it up to the guy being nearly asphyxiated to death lol. I’m just trying to suggest that maybe it’s not as inconsistent as you think. All this talk of “inconsistency” reminds me of people who criticize The Emperor for having inconsistent writing when he literally is just an Illithid and a manipulative ass XD

Just wanted to jump into this thread adding to the support of Minthara. In my humble opinion she is one of the most interesting and unique characters, too bad they made her such a sidelined and overlooked character by making her only available for players who choose an unpopular way to deal with the act 1 main quest.
Doing her justice by adding more content of her is pretty much on the top of my wish list. Well, I'll keep hoping....

Hello and welcome! It's on my wishlist too! She's one of the more nuanced characters of the game and deserves way more attention than she's getting. Let’s continue to hope for an alternate way to recruit her. The more we support it, the more likely Larian will hear and consider our feedback.

Thanks for the welcome! Also doing lots of playthroughs siding with her helps as Larian surely gets the data. I've got the feeling that she is way more popular than they anticipated, maybe that helps them decide to include her for future content. Fingers crossed.