Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
If you want to see The Emperor as good - as it want you see it - that's great. That's fun for you. OF COURSE this is all IMO. It's video game forum and this is all interpretation of text that has multiple authors, has been revised several times and is designed to support different playthroughs. We're all staring at ink blocks.

Don't worry - you are not ruining my fun with the game but I do think I will leave the discussion to actually play it again and to have fun.

My goal was to show others (who might just read the comments here) that there aren't just Emperor haters out there and that not everything that people post are necessarily the one truth - a lot of things are quite open to interpretation and it is good to remind people of this.

I don't mind if people hate the Emperor or are unhappy with him. I see potential for improvement too and of course it makes sense to get Larians attention. I hope for more Emperor content, with fixes regarding the time line and more dialog option, even possibly having Orpheus has second option early in act 3 would be nice too (even for me as Emperor fan). I am always for more options.

But I must say, I am actually aghast how people are dissecting every dream guardian and Emperor line and interpret it with the worst/most evil meaning possible - I don't think this is done for every other character in this game. Just because the Emperor is withhelding information and giving half truths at some point (and once feigning surprise about the colony in the moonrise towers) doesn't mean he is lying all times like it sometimes sound from others.

I am also wondering if everyone is playing just perfect beings that never use the persuasion, intimidation or deception options, never steal, never lie, only kill if you are attacked (and knock out isn't possible). You can manipulate more than the Emperor actually and the real master manipulator makes you not aware of the manipulation. In that regard you can even say Tav is a better manipulator than the Emperor.

You can still beat the game with being antagonistic to him and not using tadpole powers, he is only asking (and once if you are mean to him and he is at the point where he can see you will never trust him threatens you), but the point is, he does not force you to take the tadpoles or become a mind flayer. Not that it makes a difference - you are already carrying a tadpole - either you are cured or turn anyway.

And no, I don't think the Emperor is good. I see him as neutral. He is not evil - he isn't doing to people what Gortash or Orin is doing.
He does not kill or dominate everyone around us. We only know about the Duke but even then a lot of things are unclear. There is no information that he was dominating others or had other thralls.
We do know that he had opportunities to kill innocents and didn't do it - like the one eye witness - he could simply have killed him, it was even a security issue for him but he didn't. He could kill or dominate us in the end (especially if playing solo) - he doesn't. He is actually quite nice to someone who even tried to kill him before at the end, hoping they will find the allies they desire in the future. And we know that his actions during his knights of the shield time was not seen as nefarious by others.

Additionally and contrary to your points Omeluum vs Emperor - he eats brains, yes, so does Omeluum. But the Emperor says and we know this is true because we have an eye witness, eats condemned (sentenced to death) criminals. We have no proof that this is not true. You choose to believe Omeluum when he says he only eats those against the society (whatever that means) but choose to see the Emperor as liar.
He believes he is superior to his former self because he has now other abilities and powers and can think faster (and fly and read minds, and use telekinesis). He was a fighter before, not a wizard. But he is not wrong - if we use the tadpole powers we are getting stronger, more powerful. The Emperor is right when he says that increases our chances to defeat the brain. He is clearly against the grand design and the usual mind flayer goals. And as being half illithid is not an issue at all in this game and you are cured at the end, it is hard to argue against using the tadpoles. It has no negative impact. If this was the case and the Emperor was clearly hurting us with asking us to take tadpole powers it would be a different story. But it isn't. You are already carrying a tadpole - as I said - take more tadpoles, it doesn't matter if you are going to be cured anyway or if there was no cure you would turn eventually so taking more tadpoles or being half Illithid wouldn't make a difference either.

You know, I am not sure if you are trolling me or being actually serious, but the collar thing is obviously a bug. Same thing happens with his sword. If the Emperor would have influenced us to wear the collar or moved it on his own I am pretty sure we would have gotten a narrator line and our character and companions reacting to it. Or are you going to try to convince me that the Emperor wants us to use his sword, because .... reasons? You also can't click the soup recipe, I wonder what nefarious meaning this could have.....

According to the dev notes he is more treating us like a parent would treat a child on an occasion, but that depends on the dialog option. I think the Emperor is actually more patient and nice to a player character hating on him than the other way around.

Regarding the knights - sorry but we have to agree to disagree here. I can't fault the Emperor about something he can't know. And there is no proof the devil was even able to get him replaced. He is trapped in a shield. He can communicate it seems but that doesn't mean he can do a lot of other things. And contrary to your speculation that is not supported by any text in game, there is a in game note that says that the Emperor did not do any nefarious actions. I think that speaks for itself.

I am glad we agree that Omeluum is a good one (or neutral, that is fine). Now, that is just me trying to be funny and at the same time trying to visualize how I experience the Emperor prejudice - let me write what I suspect a typical Emperor hater would write about Omeluum if he was faced with the same prejudice and hate:

- He worked with a lich! A lich! Lichs are evil - that is canon, so Omeluum was working for someone evil, hence Omeluum is EVIL
- He says he only eats brains of people that are against the Society. He doesn't say the ones that ATTACK the society. So if someone just has a different opinion he kills them too! He says it practically.
- The society is not a good organisation, some people there are evil! They abused the poor Gith kid. So again, Omeluum is with a evil organisation!
- He makes us interested in a ring that might help us (MANIPULATION!) and then admits that it didn't do anything! This was dangerous, we could have relied on that ring! He is also LYING to us! He is so dishonest - everything he says can't be taken for the truth, it is all a lie and manipulation!
- He disguises himself so people don't recognize him in the city - again MANIPULATION, he is not showing his true self!
- Did I mention that he is a MIND FLAYER? They eat BRAINS - EVIL!!!!!
- We don't know if he dominated people before or had thralls before - who says Blurg is not a thrall?!
- His extraction of the tadpole made it worse! I had no powers before because I never used a different tadpole and after Omeluum I had! And it even says in the game the tadpole is stronger now!


So, sorry and again, I hope you don't take it seriously and I don't mean you. It is just the normal crazyness dealing with a lot of anti Emperor postings I see popping up (e.g. on reddit).

I just wish people hating the Emperor wouldn't often come up with such strange reasons for hating him. I mean, it is ok to hate him, no justification at all required. It is also understandable to ask for improvements. But I think there is no such exaggeration with any other character - they lie, they manipulate, they say evil things, do evil stuff and no one bats an eye. But the Emperor says one half truth and some people start to post that he is always lying...

I will also bid farewell - as you said, it is supposed to be fun and I rather play the game to have fun. I like to thank you for your thoughts and the acutally entertaining discussion. I hope my above attempt on being funny is not totally off the mark (afterall I am german, everyone knows we have no humour right?). It is interesting to see what people think but when it comes down to things that feel so alien to me to take them as reasons to hate this character there is not really something left for me to say. I do agree with some things and hope for improvements, but I do enjoy the Emperor and dream guardian so mayybe I just see things from a different direction.

Last edited by Cawyden; 25/10/23 02:27 PM.