Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion Unhappy Endings Might be GOOD

Just to be clear, I'm talking about the cut epilogue voice lines here and not about Karlach or Illithid in general.

Karlach's lack of story probably comes from her being added so late in the development, hence bad writing and implementation of her quest line. But, honestly I do not know, I've never paid any attention to her, so I do not have anything to go by. As for Wyll, he seems to be even more boring now then he was during the EA.

But in any case, I'm sure you are correct about their development being unfinished, unsatisfying and wanting. But that really doesn't mean that the rest of the epilogue has to suffer. There is literally no mention (I may have missed it of course) in the lines of any origin character by name in romance with another, except Karlach. Are we only supposed to romance her? Is she the only one that gets to be named and the rest gets a generic spouse/partner, I hope not.

Anyway, at this point all we can do is wait until the epilogue is out. We'll see how it turns out, it may be the greatest epilogue ever!

It wouldn't take much work to change it to another name, or a generic term for Tav. The other versions are probably just hidden away in Larian's recycle bin and not thrown on Youtube. I'd much prefer a "show, don't tell" ending for the origin companions though. I'll gladly accept a "tell" ending for all the allies we made throughout the game.

As for Karlach and Wyll, Karlach's problem is still just the lack of agency over her outcome despite the hints being there that you can change it, and Wyll.. he's not even necessarily boring, he just gets way too little. Doesn't he have at least 2 hours (20%) less content than the second lowest companion? It shows, at least.

Some of my favorite moments were from Act 3.
I am not going to pretend otherwise, there were some great ingredients in there but some other ingredients and the execution left me incredibly disappointed.

It ruined the ending for me. In Act 1 i was giggling like a little school girl. In Act 2 I was a little concerned but there were so many good scenes and mysteries that it kept me hooked. I kind of ruined somethings for myself by doing the Gauntlet first and had to go back and redo stuff but so far so good.

Act 3? Man so many bugs, so many weird decisions that just didn't feel right.
I kept waiting for it to make sense or get better but it never did.

All banter stopped, the romance became rushed and felt half finished, the lead up to the ending felt so articifial like I was collecting pokemon cards for the final battle.

Gale for example his story concluded in a book shop.
Karlach I had 1 date and kill the worst boss for, she freaked out a little but then she was ok.
Everyone standing like statues at elf song
The final battle I am given two dumb decisions, forced into a predicament and then I watched the most wonkiest and least polished cinematic sequence before the end credit's rolled in.

The excellent somber music almost made it a mockrey.
The ending was rushed and it rail roaded me, instead of the ending crushing my heart and making me depressed because the adventure was over... instead it just made me apathetic.
I wish I never played Act 3.

Honestly I wish I never spoiled myself with the half finished experience just so I could wait a year until some sort of update fixes this mess.
I love Larian and I love the first two acts but I am just so disappointed in how Act 3 comes together.
And its not the happy or unhappy endings, its the forced... the contrived railroading, the half finished content, the lack of... life and character progression by characters. Some of them anyway.

This game needed one more year in the oven for Act 3. Thats what I didn't like about it.

I think there are two examples of very good bittersweet endings in the game. Karlach's choices at the end are hard to deal with. The dissatisfaction with her if more about the story getting to that point. She's a lovable fun character but we do very little for her and see very little character growth.

The other ending is one of the Halsin endings, the one where you choose to become a mindflayer.


It's brutal. And that's okay. It's an actual ending, not "bye, come visit sometime."

We don't know at what stage of development those epilogues were, and whether or not all the lines that were meant for them were recorded. For all we know, they may have scrapped those two-thirds of the way through.

At any rate, those are almost definitely not the epilogues we're getting. They're all getting re-recorded.

My ending with Halsin felt very different.

I'm not interested in a happy ending with a wedding or children laughing. Larian has good writers and I also prefer to write tragic or open endings.
That Karlach has to go back to Avernus or that Astarion runs into the shadows is tragic, yes, but that is the cost of their decisions.
This creates headcanons. what happens to them now? maybe a DLC?
What's not working at all is that I couldn't decide anything anymore.
I just chose the option of let's have a party, but instead my romance ran into the shadows and someone made a half-hearted comment about it that pissed me off. I wanted to run after him - then the party will take place here - will someone get a keg of beer before Karlach goes to Avernus - Is there sun in the Hells?
But my Tav stood there emotionless. Others also said nothing and just stared into the area.
I was left frustrated and then everyone just, what, walked past Astarion? Even my tav?
I suddenly couldn't decide anything anymore - and my only decision - the party, um, no.
Is this what I deserve after 150h?
Stories need a beginning and an end that closes the circle. Sure, the Elderbrain is defeated, but how does it close in relation to the beginning. How do the characters develop? The World?
No final conversations. No drunk Halsin singing, or a Lae'zel has warmed up to the customs.
Nothing that closes the circle to the first party to the beginning. That would be a nice comparison to start with.
But, as if the last page of a book had been torn out.

If the idea is that Karlach should go back to Avernus because she needs to face her fears and fight for her freedom together with people who care about her, rather than catch a free ride out on the Nautiloid, then that should've been what her story and our choices were about. But they're not.

1) You don't get much say in what direction it goes:

Yes, you can choose the end states -- become a mindflayer, explode, or go back to Avernus -- but none of them are affected by what you do during her questline.

The reason why Karlach ends up like that is because those two fetch quests led to nothing. Now, you could argue that failure is a type of impact on its own. Yes, yes it is. But here's the thing -- you could, if you wanted to, ignore Karlach's entire questline, and nothing would fundamentally change, except that you wouldn't be able to romance her.

What Karlach has, instead of an actual storyline, is an optional romance quest. All that changes by completing her quest is the ability to touch her. How am I supposed to be content with any of this? We need to be allowed to make choices that actually impact her situation, even if they lead to the same conclusion.

2) The story is thematically incomplete:

What you have right now are two interactions with Dammon and a meaningless boss fight

a) the first time you meet Dammon, he temporarily stabilizes you and tells us he'll come up with something the next time we meet;
b) the second time you meet Dammon, he temporarily stabilizes you and tells you there's nothing he can do;
c) then you go and take revenge on Gortash and that changes absolutely nothing about Karlach's character arc

Now, you could say this as a rebuttal: Dammon's failure shows her that she can't just patch her way out of this, and her empty revenge pushes her to accept her fate rather than cling to old grievances.

The problem is that neither of those is necessarily true within the confines of the game:

Firstly, just because Dammon failed doesn't mean there aren't others who can try. In fact, it's not just the Gondians. Few people mention this, but one of the Gondians' premiere rivals are the Grymforge Gnomes whom you also get to save. I think anyone reading this can come up with at least a few twists and turns involving these two that can lead you to explore an engine fix. You can still have those options fail, but it will make Karlach's story that much more believable. You truly did try all you could.

Secondly, Gortash dying isn't necessary for Karlach to find acceptance. In fact, killing him is a wasted opportunity, since he is her only connection to the main story. You could've had at least a couple more options for dealing with him -- including one where you betray Karlach and return her to Zariel via Gortash (a la Shadowheart) -- and one where you make a deal with him to secure her life on Fearun. Both of those are obvious routes already set up in the game -- you know Zariel is after her and you know Gortash has advanced infernal engine tech in his arsenal.

If you combine the two points above, what you get is a more complete storyline worthy of an Origin character that retains the tragedy and the bitterness of the original, while also giving players more agency in how they approach her situation. This way, you can save Karlach but the cost will be immense. If she finds out you struck a deal with Gortash to get her a new engine, she might leave you forever. Is a living Karlach who hates you a happy ending? You tell me. Maybe now the Avernus ending doesn't sound so bad, does it? Now you have a true dilemma.

So an unhappy ending can be good, but it has to be earned and it has to be meaningful. Tragedy for its own sake is not satisfying.

Well i already Say That i do Beleave that Karlach situation and AStarion in the Good ending are the Worst..
totally wrong what happens to then.. even so that i dont care or never romance then i feell your pain my dude im not joking..
( i already have some similar situation in another games 1 of then even came from Larian for the old fans they may understand the character im talking about..)
but the fact is Its Not Just Her that get a Shitty ending.. like the dude says in the end yu get 3 options in the good route..
a Party, Rebuild the City or Just Leave..
Looks like we are just able to leave and have sex with romance option and they say just a few lines and thats it..
like Oona Says..
This game just need Something.. a Simple Stupid Party so we can talk to then 1 last time then we get to F. our romance and Credits with some stupid Slides.. that i would be ok and tolarate as ending..
but thats not the case.
they just Cut your balls off in the end left yu asking what the hell is happening here and thats it.. Withers and Raphael if yu chose the worst decision in the game Great move on now please ?
thats what i get for good ending..huahauhauhauha
(i already told that but yu know why in the 9 hells i beat this game so many times ? becouse i really felt that the ending i get was my foult.. becouse i felt i really miss or forget to save someone to change that shit.. and hit even harder after 900 hrs and yu realize that is just that indeed.)

even in Dragon Age inquistion wich is a Far inferior game then this game in act1,2 i get a Decent Ending.. even better if yu buy the expancion Man the ending with solas even if yu dont Romance him its Brutal..
the dude just take of my power and my arm and i was left in my knees like i was some dog shit in front of a Demi God Shit that Hurt but was amazing.
like see stupid human i was the snake the entire time and yu just beleaved in me.
(and till this day i want to slay that asshole really hard.)
another Great Example
The ending with blood and wine with Regis.. Shit if yu never saw just play that shit man.. yu will want to put down the game in the end thats a True Eding.. that shit actually make me cry like a baby
like i was sending finally a proper ending for the Greatest Hero That ever lived and Geralt really need that especially if yu read the books yu will understand me.
i can give yu Many, Many, Many More exemples of a Great Ending. and i do love some dark and Cruel ending.. i do but here its the only one worth something.. and thats so Sad.

The more I read about the endings, the more I see it as you
I'd guess it's the same for other companions.

Yu can actually get to make Shadow leave with yu but depend on your choices..

I hadn't thought about enthrallment. That is an interesting take on it and very possible. The lore around mindflayers, some of which is not included in the game, shows that the Emperor is a rare case of someone who retained their personality. But Tav's emotions will be severely compromised and they may yet turn evil.

In the end, my redemption Dark Urge felt so responsible for she took one for the team. It felt appropriate, but certainly not "happy." And I am okay with that. Even if playing through all the options after had me going through a lot of tissues. Or perhaps especially because.

OMG you are so right! I was so depressed by the ending that I hadn't even thought about it this way.
The angle I came from was: I would have been much more satisfied if the narrator pointed out that The danger part would have hit home for me much harder.

I just want a final chance to talk to my companions in a camp type setting before we all head our separate ways. I think leaving loose ends will be great if the game gets dlc or an expansion.

I absolutely want that after knowing Shadowheart wants Tav to get her in a family way when all's said and done. And Wyll literally does a marriage proposal. They can't just tease like that! It doesn't have to be any more official canon than an ending for her where Tav kills her on the beach or makes Wyll leave after raiding the Grove.


It should still give the player choices. It seems the only two who, with the current endings, aren't up for a new adventure are Lae'zel and Shadowheart, the rest are all up for more as a group. Astarion and Karlach are just tied by circumstance, but a 'fix' for Karlach is hopefully being worked on already.

"It should still give the player choices."
It seems the only two who, with the current endings, aren't up for a new adventure are Lae'zel and Shadowheart, Yup i Felt this Too with there endings..xD
Only if yu play as her i beleave yu can actually get something like that at least as Shadow in the good path theres a Final line like that.
she will go in another adventure but her romanced with tav or another is the Farm or Go with yu.
(yu kinda ask her that she can go with yu.)
she will go with yu like your wife i get it.. for wherever yu want to go with her..
(she even joke about camp stuff haha..)

Yup, Shadowheart wants to settle down, Lae'zel wants to go start a civil war against Vlaakith (technically a new adventure I guess, but of her choosing). Gale legit says he took a liking to your merry band, Astarion seemed to be up for it before burning up and Wyll seems cool with the idea. Karlach we know wants it but she needs to stop exploding first.

So you can easily have an open ending where most of the group go on a new adventure together.

Indeed could even get the Loose tails in the Story pretty well indeed..
and i would F. Love to see some Netherill empire DLC
that shit is APEX DeD baybe
Sorry Elmister yu SUX i kill yu so easy.. Karsus is the TRUE ARCHWIZARD lol
huahauhauhauahuahuahuahuaha
(ok larian i know that at best i just slay his simulacrun but F.it just let me dream..haha)

(Fun Fact.. KARSUS DID F. NOT die ok in the Fall..) xD
and in the True Tale was not the way they Retcon in the game
he was the ONE AND ONLY to have the balls to create the 12 lvl spell lol
so F. It Karsus is the dude.

another fact there are some of there citys out there in other planes
1 of then was in Shadowfell haha
shit. lol

By and large, I think with an expansion, we wouldn't necessarily need our current companions. They could largely just appear for an occasional extra scene or personal quest.


That being said, I think Avernus is a good choice because there's a ton you could do with it.

-BG falls into it so most of the companions / Tav end up there by proxy
-Tav could be going to hell, either alone or with their lover to look for a cure for Shadowheart's hand, Astarion's vampire curse, etc.
-Tav is there because they went with Karlach
-Tav died or became a mindflayer and their soul ended up in Avernus.
-Githyanki Tav is in hell for some Tiamat mcguffin to help in the fight for or against Orpheus.

Even most companions who died can be connected back to it cause souls can always end up there (e.g. Karlach's soul might still belong to Zariel if she died). That being said, I think Wyll and Karlach would be the ones taking center stage of the returning companions since their stories feel the most incomplete. We could also get some returning villain, especially ones who didn't quite have as much impact on the story as they should. Cazador specifically comes to mind, with him having made a contigency pact with Mephistopheles (which could also tie in vampire spawn Tav via a kidnapping / soul exchange sub-plot).

I guess what I'm getting at is that there's a lot of room to tie everything back together in a way that feels satisfying.

I was also left frustrated because the game decided for me that I want to talk to Gale and Lae'zel, but not Shadowheart, and that I want to run to Karlach, but not after Astarion.

Controlling the brain has no endings at all and automatically assumes you want to do it alone and continue the invasion.

As for DLC I'd like something related to Durge. Purge or take over the Bhaal cult, become the new murder lord, have companions hunt down "evil" Durge if they didn't choose to control the brain, whatever. Or a prequel where we steal the Netherstones with Gortash.

Though I hope they fix the obviously unfinished parts like Cazador's basement before doing any expansions.