Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
It's been fun and I think you succeeded in the task you set out to do - you made it clear that some like The Emperor and are satisfied with his ending.

I'm not satisfied with it I really hope Larian changes it. The requirement for a mind flayer at the doesn't feel tragic, or interesting, or fun. It feels contrived, it feels like a Deux ex Machina. Brain big so you need mind flayer stuff. Nope the Gith Messiah won't do. Nope the god watching the wizard won't do. Gotta be a mind flayer

And as someone who only plays good characters, sitting by while a helpless prisoner has his brain devoured doesn't feel good. Neither does it feel good to sit side by side with a monster who is admiring the restraint and mental domination of said helpless prisoner. "beautiful, isn't it?"

They could keep the requirement but allow for Orpheus and the Emperor together so that you can free Orpheus and still no one has to turn into a mind flayer.

There is the option to just use Gale without Orpheus or someone else required to turn, but you have to select a certain selection of dialog lines and Lae'zel has to be in the party. It would be good if this would be easier to achieve, so that it isn't missed so easily.

But yes, I don't mind if they would even get rid of the requirement. As long as they don't get rid of the Emperor because I do enjoy the character. But I understand that if there is one character you don't like for whatever reasons and he/she is forced onto you and have to keep listen to this character and interacting with it, it becomes tiresome and it only fuels the hate for this character. So I think it would really be a good idea to have Orpheus as option available as early as possible (likely beginning act 3 then) as alternative.



Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
I know you think much of the resistance come from the sex scene but that's not it for me. I'm upset at how poorly supported "distrust the emperor" is handled before and after that.

My experience:

* stabs emperor

* next dream "I trust you've come to your senses" I'm back on trust path for some reason! No, I've not "come to my senses"! No option to stab again, to yell at, spit in it's face. Just "okay I totally trust you after it became clear you were coming to me a false form, tell me truthworthy one what do I do next"?

* Brings emperor down to 7 hps - gets end game warning. Annnnd I'm back to trusting the emperor. "no: yes we need each other but we are not friends"

*next dream - sitting side by side with emperor while it admires its evil actions. The lines for a distrustful Tav are just awful. Tav sounds like a xenophobic idiot and not someone horrified by the emperor's actions.

Now I do think the supporting materials make it clear that the emperor was evil? Absolutely. But is that reflected in Tav dialogues? No. Is that reflected in the options available to good Tav? No. The good Tav has to choose between competing evils. The "you need a mindflayer" ending doesn't feel tragic, that moment holds no pathos - I just feel like the game cheated, like my actions didn't matter in the end.

Is Orpheus a good guy? No. But a Gith civil war is probably a good thing.

No, it isn't just the sex scene - I mean, people who were not begin trustworthy and empathic towards him should get a different scene, with him fully clothed and not leading to a romance. Currently it is only not possible if you tried to kill him before from what I heard. But I get that as I wrote above, that he rubs some people the wrong way (which is fine) and then is forced onto them. This can only lead to more hate towards him.

And as you wrote as your personal experience - he should react differently if you are continuingly challenge and antagonistic towards him. He might still try to get onto your good side but there is a point where it is clear that is not going to happen and he needs to acknowledge it better. But this is a problem from the late rewrite I think, but it should definitely be corrected and the dialog improved.

That is where I disagree - I don't think he is evil or that what you discover in game (by books e.g.) only leads to the conclusion that he is evil. There is also proof that in my opinion shows he isn't.

I get that having to kill Orpheus is tragic - however he is going to be as a leader, at this moment he is a prisoner and helpless. It is not like a all good playthrough should feel like. But I can't just betray the Emperor, who I don't think is evil and who was protecting and working with me the whole game. To be able to free Orpheus and keep the Emperor would a complete good playthrough for me. If you feel he is evil, they could add an option so you can still kill him at the end. I know you can if you turn into a mind flayer.


Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
Before you go:

No, not trolling at all and I don't think it's a bug. Remember the previous dialogue? "I will be your shield, you must be the weapon" We are the emperor's sword. We, the adorable pet on the path to become something greater. Paternalistic does cover the tone, doesn't it? We are dealing with a member of a superior species.

Last bit on the Knights of the Shield - you can't invoke FR lore when it suits you and ignore it otherwise. I'm willing to go with apostolic souls - Greenwood is *the* loremaster - but the Knights *are* an evil organization. And there is nothing that suggests that the lore has been changed. If these are friendly thieves why use the name of the knights and not - say - some sub unit of the guild?

Also, I like Germans. I've spent lots of time reading German philosophers and I know some Germans who are very funny. Thanks for the exchange!

auf Wiedersehen

I still think it is a bug - other items are affected too and I just learned that if you press ALT to highlight and then select the item the auto equip does not happen. And as I said - if that would haven been intentional, Larian would have added some comments from narrator or companions.

Fair enough but I think we are all guilty of this - we pick what we think fits best. We know that Larian did changes compared to the canon like making Balduran elf. And the canon Knights don't have the Emperor as member I think. Maybe the knights are considered evil because of the devil behind the scenes but as this is only known to very few people I don't think that this means all members of the order are evil. We do have confirmation in game that his actions weren't seen as nefarious (from outside the knights, I think it was a different faction).

I know you see it differently, we have to agree to disagree here. For me the Emperor is not evil, he is neutral. But even if he were evil, he is more complex then just "evil mind flayer" to what others like to reduce him.

And I think it is just normal that if you are nice to people, they are nice to you and if you are mean and insulting and antagonistic towards them they will be more aggressive and similar to you. No reason to say - see? He is mean to me and that only because I was mean to him!


I don't know if you are aware, but on the Larian Discord there is the BG3 feedback channel and people can submit suggestions and bugs there. Might be a good second option to get Larians attention.


So, I will still be lurking but need some time off for now.

Best wishes,
Caw

Last edited by Cawyden; 26/10/23 12:36 PM.