Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion Daisy, the Absolute, and the Emperor [SPOILERS]

he is a mindflayer, things from his past that doesn't matter and things that would give you a hint that he might be a mind flayer. The only thing I found in the game (and I checked the game files too) that comes close to lying is when he feigns surprise at the tentacle/oubliette in moonrise towers.

And if you play as Karlach and you are about to die he will be sorry about that

And if you transform into a mind flayer you can actually stay together with him.

We also know from the game files that his grieving of Duke Stelman is genuine. And when he tells you that he would never lie to you - that was meant to be the truth and genuine too. It is in the dev notes, internal comments to give the cinematic and voice actors information how things are meant. But with a mind flayer it is very difficult to express things - you can't see if he is smiling or not for example.

some people saying the Emperor forced the tadpoles onto them (esp. astral one) or forcing them to become a mind flayer. He does no such thing. He asks us to use the powers as it makes us stronger, and that is correct. He does not ask us to transform into a mind flayer, we have to ask him if we can transform. He also asks us to use the astral tadpole but you can decline. Only if someone took tadpoles before you have to make a Wis save if you want to put it away for later (you can always stomp it though) - but this is not his doing but you are basically fighting your own urge (tadpoled influenced) to evolve.
Saying that he constantly is lying to you is also incorrect. Or that he betrays you in the ending - if you free Orpheus he will leave because you betray him - he said several times that he is sure that Orpheus will kill him (and likely tav + co too). And some other stuff like Duke Stelmane was his girlfriend etc. which is not true - he tells you it was not love and she was a business partner. But yes, she apparently was his thrall and I can understand people being upset by this.

(aside from customizing a hot guardian that turns out to be a (still hot if you are into it) mind flayer

I don't know if he knew that in the end your infection will be cured. It doesn't matter that you took tadpoles - you are tadpole free at the end (if you don't transform). He does think that he is a better version of his previous being, that he is superior now. So he encourages us using the powers. But you can play the game without using the powers and he will ask you but never force you to use tadpoles or the power. As I said, I don't know if he suspected a cure is possible (he says the tadpole can't be removed due to the netherese magic so maybe at the end it would be possible) or if he indead thought there is no cure that you would survive and hoped you would embrace becoming a mind flayer and "The greatest ally he could have wished". He is manipulative sure (although not always) but when he tells you that you need more information and normal cures won't work it is actually correct.

(->they might have been suspected him to be a mind flayer at some point) but that they can't find any nefarious actions. And Duke Stelmane was part of the leading council of Baldurs Gate and practically leader (aside from the Emperor) of the knights. There is also the guild and the Zhentarim... the knights weren't the only ones.

But again, it doesn't sound he like was doing "his city" a disservice (compare it with Gortash). And he is a mind flayer - he has to eat. He tries not to eat innocents but criminals (we don't know details - maybe not a simple thief but a murderer etc.). Same with Omeluum - he is eating persons acting against the society whatever that means. He also worked with a Lich before. I very like Omeluum too but he is also a mind flayer that needs to eat.

Omeluum was also manipulating us - he knew the ring he gave us doesn't do anything. He meant well though. Omeluum and the Emperor are mind flayers, illusions and manipulation is their language. They are still quite different from each other - I don't know if Omeluum remembers his past, he appears more alien to be compared to the Emperor, who sounds more like a normal person (for example if Omeluum speaks about him feeling warmth when he sees you). As the Emperor says, not all mind flayers are the same. While Omeluum does his research the Emperor is trying to influence Baldurs Gate 3 - and from what we could see in his hideout not for material wealth. He wasn't destabilizing or hurting the city apparently - and given his past with the city I wouldn't expect him to do anything to hurt Baldurs Gate.

I don't think Omeluum would have been able to do what the Emperor did - like appearing as dream guardian I mean. Just based on the way human speech and behaviour seems a little foreign and alien to him. But given his powers I would expect Omeluum to use manipulation and illusion if it helps him as well (and he does to conceal his presence, which is understandable).

The Emperor manipulates us to make us trust him, so that he can trust us instead - given that he was nearly killed in sleep by his former lover it is understandable that he is careful in this regard.

Orpheus is dead but everyone else lives. Including the Emperor. I agree Orpheus isn't much developed, why should I care about Orpheus? Only reason is that in the future his powers might be useful again. But I rather stay with the Emperor who has actually protected us from turning into a mind flayer and becoming a thrall of the absolute and warned us about dangerous situations and who did not betrayed my trust. Orpheus didn't wrong you? He isn't barely there in the game - but if you turn against the Emperor Orpheus doesn't care at all about you and you get a game over. For him you are just a thrall or on your way to become a mind flayer - just like the Emperor told us. We also don't really know about Orpheus - Gith aren't really nice people too. I wouldn't say he is defintely the lesser evil. That would remain to be seen.

I agree that I think with the powers there should be drawbacks like you said with Nere. It would make it far more interesting and indeed rewarding. But this isn't the Emperors fault but Larians. I do like the Emperor because you can approach him in a playthrough like you hate his guts and don't believe a word he says and be antagonistic to the end or you are trusting him and it does feel different. There is also much we don't really know and with him as renegade mind flayer on top of that I just find him very interesting.

Again on coercion - you are right to say that the emperor does not force you take the tadpole but this is clearly coercive, right? Giving someone something that forces them to survive a will check or become infected? It's a bit like a dealer persuading someone to try something once, then getting them addicted and then handing them a free sample once they've kicked the habit. Perhaps not force but a level of coercion that butts right up against boundaries of "force".

Also, if you are aggressive it does threaten to force you. No, it doesn't follow through but there is no mistaking the threat.

The guardian says "I WAS infected" - that is true. He is just now a full mind flayer where before he was an elf infected with the tadpole. "I seek to be free of IT" - IT means in his case the brain and enslavement. Of course he can't say that because at this point we don't know he is a mind flayer yet. But that is hardly a lie - he wants to be free of the brain and not being a thrall / slave to anyone, in our case the tadpole would lead to the same enslavement.

There are definitely things that you can accuse him off, but to call him a liar because of this line is in my opinion being very sensitive/picky. Have a look at our companions what they say and do, they have secrets, manipulate and/or say awful things (Lae'zel with her flaying people line). And people are cool with them but if the Emperor keeps things secret it isn't. But you can not recruit or kill of your companions and I think that you can't do the same with the Emperor if you don't like him just increases the hate he gets.

Of course, there are definitely things with the Emperor where I totally understand when people are upset by it, but sometimes there are just things I personally find incredible unfair - like expecting him to be some perfect being - someone that no one in the game (even not the player in most cases) is - perfect nice and altruistic person, never lying, never hiding any information (like he has to spill everything about his person on the first meeting? Who does that?)... and he isn't. But no one ever said he is? But I get the impression every line of him is being presented as proof how mean and evil he is. Does anyone do that with Shadowheart or Lae'zel or Astarion?

As I said before - if you play like being trusting and nice to him you will see that he is nice in return. And when people say - yes, that is totally what he wants from you - then I can only say: yes, but why shouldn't I? We have the same enemy, we both want to be free (not being a slave, the player also normally would not want to be a mind flayer too), we both need each other. What do I gain from fighting him all the way when it works with him (aside from role playing reasons)? Yes, there is Orpheus as option, but he is a risk - we are fighting his honor guard, which see us as enemies due to our tadpole - it is like the Emperor said - with the tadpole in our head we are as good as mind flayers for them. And we know from the creche quest that their idea of a cure is to kill infected. We can also feel that Orpheus hates us (at least it is what the Narrator says in the Emperor reveal scene after the fight).

Don't get me wrong - I would love to have a persuasion option to have both the Emperor and Orpheus available. Hopefully they will add it.



Sorry, but killing Ansur was not murder. It was self defense. Ansur tried to "mercy" kill him in his sleep. I would defend myself too if someone decided I am no longer like they wish me to be. Ansur even calls him still Balduran - if he think he is gone now, why does he not call him just mind flayer? And look at the letter that the Emperor wrote to Ansur - it is really heartfelt. He didn't want Ansur to be in pain and asked him to leave.

The Emperor does say at first he wanted a cure too but came to like what he is now. Not sure if a cure without his cooperation would work but Ansur wasn't able to cure him and yes, even if possible he wouldn't want it. But still, I don't think this is something to hate him for.



I have tried different options and looked at the game files for the beach mind flayer. He forces the feeling love on us so that we don't attack him and willingly let him eat us. I think when mind flayers eat brains the victim has an euphoric feeling. But that has nothing to do with the Emperor - why would he still manipulate us at the end when we are about to die (in Karlachs case)? There is nothing to gain. And he just leaves, he does not attack us (even if solo and no companions are around), he does not try to dominate us to make us a thrall, he does not try it later (going with the epiloge not in game but in the game files, where everyone meets 6 months later). He just leaves and might offer some parting words (even to a player who was mean to him before he wishes them luck in the future to get the allies they desire). Unfortunately, some dialog is hidden if you have no companions with you or are playing certain origins.

I like your line, they should add more options, no question. I am not even sure he would be able to make all of the companions a thrall (and if only making the player character a thrall the others would likely know it and work against him too so not helpful) or even only with Tav to keep it up for a longer time. We do know he can take influence - if you try to get into the upper city despite his 3 warnings, he will move you back on its own, meaning he took kind of control of Tav and group, at least for a short time.


Don't worry, I am not here to judge you .

Don't forget that a wizard will have knowledge from books and I don't think the writers of the books we encounter have met many renegade mind flayers. It even says in the book that mind flayers will try to isolate you - yet the Emperor encourages you to get allies (even non tadpoled ones like Jaheira and Halsin), and that you should pay attention to its actions and not its words - what ever the Emperor says to you, at the end you can see that he keeps his word and destroys the brain and leaves you be.

We also know that mind flayers are not soulless (as it is so often said), Withers himself uses the term apostolic souls - mind flayer souls can't be used by the gods. We know they have souls because Ed Greenwood the creator of the forgotten realms confirmed it. Anyway, as the Emperor said - not every mind flayer is the same. They have feelings, I think that is canon from other sources (I think they can grief the death of their favourite thralls so much they might even die from it too). Don't forget Omeluum feels too - Blurg says he knows that Omeluum feels regret for the actions of other mind flayers. I interpret his line "feel some warmth" differently, not that he doesn't feel it but that he doesn't find the correct words for it as he doesn't remember his past life and now has to learn about humanoids and their ways.


Here some screenshots from dev notes from the game files
If you romance the Emperor and (sorry that must be hard for some to read now) kiss his tentacles he will enjoy it:


This is when he speaks about the now dead Duke Stelmane (I suppose you could argue that he is just sounding like it but doesn't mean it - but there is no proof for both that it is sincere or not)


He does show genuine gratitude if you acknowledge that he has feelings:


Here is the dev note regarding his line that he would never lie to you:


And here the comment for the whole romance night - no need for manipulation anymore:



I don't mind if people hate him - that is even understandable if you consider that he made the Duke a thrall. Although even with that we don't have all information. Stelmane is not a new character, there are pen and paper adventures with her and there is one where it says a mind flayer from the underdark (named Gruuk I think) was responsible for her stroke when he attacked her. But we don't know what made it into the game, Larian changed things. So maybe the Emperor is meant to replace Gruuk and is the one who gave her the stroke. It could also be argued that he found her with her stroke and with making her a thrall allowed her to "function" again in a way.

I don't think this is what happens but I want to say that there are things that we don't really know, we find books and information in the game but we had a rewrite and things changed (you can find in the game files for example that the Duke was at some time to be longer dead and the Emperor continued with her work) and additionally, if someone writes a book you have to keep in mind that you shouldn't maybe belive it to be true 100% too - that is what my history teacher even told me back in school about historic documents - always think about who wrote it and why would they write it? How would the content change dependend on their view? Not saying Larian went that way but like with the book about mind flayers - just because the "normal" mind flayers are evil (because the elder brains are apparently), doesn't mean that every mind flayer is (especially the renegade ones).

I would also not put "he worshipped a devil" on him because we don't get any information about that in game. I think this is from a source outside as the Duke and the knights weren't created by Larian. I don't think he would worship a devil, from his lines about Raphael he doesn't sound like he would do that but instead despise them.

I also understand if people hate him because he might be the one that tadpoled us. However, while I think it was him, it doesn't mean he was it. We don't have 100% proof. The biggest thing that is missing is a reaction from the player character upon seeing him in the reveal scene. The player character is a little frightened it seems but no response or recognition, no narrator telling us, yes, that is the one who put the tadpole into you. And if you play Durge, he wasn't responsible for tadpoling the player character. So for some people he is not the one and so this is not a reason to hate him. But you could interpret it as such and get a new impression. But even then, I don't mind if he did it to my character, it was a way to safe the city at last. And if you play evil, to get more power. Depends how you role play or not, maybe I see it just practical as way to get the game going on...

For me personally, I think he is an interesting character and it is fun to have a renegade mind flayer that is at least on the good side (working towards a good goal) for once and that we can interact with aside from killing it. And that he isn't the knight in shining armor - there are problematic actions he did (at least implied with the Duke, I don't count Ansur to this) and yes, he is out to ensure his freedom but he is not evil evil like Orin or Gortash who want to enslave everyone (or to simply kill everyone). And depending on your interpretations and experience with him (and we have in many cases not 100% proof to say he really means it this or this way so different interpretations are valid) you get a different experience and can see him as evil or at neutral alignment (if one cares about that).

True, I understand if people hate him for that - but we don't know 100% that this was him. And Durge was tadpoled before, this is not on him.


The thing is - he asks you to use the powers to be stronger because he thinks you might be to weak. This is why he asks you to get allies too. And he is right - the powers make you stronger. And in the end it doesn't matter, you are healed from the tadpole. So why not use it? But of course we don't know this before - I even wonder if the Emperor could now it. I think (but this is just my opinion of course) that he thinks there is no cure and we are about to transform anyway so could use tadpoles to be stronger and it wouldn't change anything.

He is certainly disappointed if you don't use the astral tadpole. He wants us to be stronger and if we end up as mind flayer he is acutally happy and calls us the "best ally he could have wished for".

He does threaten us if it doesn't work that we trust him. If we don't trust him, he can't trust us and then he resorts to the only thing he has left - he makes it clear that he will do what ever is necessary to get the mission (destroy the brain) done. He wants his freedom but that aligns with our goal and basically with saving the world, so I think we could use better dialog options here too, like telling him that he will work with him because we need to destroy the brain but we are still not trusting him.

But he does not force you, not even if you free Orpheus (which I find strange actually).



Yes, I find the dream guardian to be truthful, just not in his form (as I said, it is clear that this is not the true form). And it fits to what the Emperor says in the game later too - his one goal is freedom (and being alive). Not free of the tadpole but enslavement by the elder brain. And I believe him when he says Orpheus will kill him - he is a mind flayer, Orpheus and his honor guard are gith. They hate mind flayers, they were enslaved by them a long time ago. They would kill them on sight. It is even required for a gith to kill a mind flayer to get a certain status and recognition (Lae'zel talks about that). And on top of that he uses Orpheus power to protect himself and us, basically using him. And Orpheus honor guard attacks us too and even says that we reek of Illithid. And after the fight after the reveal of the Emperor you can ask him what would happen if we would free Orpheus and we will tell you that Orpheus would kill him and us (because with tadpole we are alreay mind flayer to them). And we know from the creche quest that gith cure infected by killing them. And the narrator even says that we can feel Orpheus hate for us. So yes, I totally believe the Emperor when he says Orpheus will kill him and likely us. He can't know that Orpheus can indeed be persuaded.

But I think they need to remove that he just leaves. Either he can be persuaded (with a high DC and maybe only if we have been trustworthy) to work with Orpheus (and Orpheus needs to be persuaded too) or at least he could fight us (although I don't think he has a chance against the full group) or he could at least be persuaded to stay and see what happens - if we have to kill Orpheus because he tries to kill the Emperor he can still eat his brain. Of course if Orpheus drop his protection of us when he is attacked we will all turn to thralls, so game over I guess. But if the Emperor joins the brain he is enslaved anyway so no difference.

And yes, he tells you that there is nothing to be found in Ansurs lair, that the wyrm is dead and that is true from his point of view. He is surprised too that Ansurs ghost is still there. Or did you mean his greatsword as treasure or his helmet? I think for him it is just a waste of time and you have the trials that might hurt you. So I don't see anything wrong with that.


As I wrote before, mind flayers are not soulless and not necessary evil. I don't feel defeat that we have to use a mind flayer - we can use the Emperor who is actually quite reasonable and not like the other mind flayers who are under the brains control only interested in making everyone a slave. The Emperor is not like them. I think the most good ending would be to have both the Emperor and Orpheus.



You can use the Emperor then no one else has to transform. If you go with Orpheus there is a way to not have someone transform and using Gale as bomb. But it is tricky, you have to ask the Emperor for the tadpole to transform but then change your mind and free Orpheus anyway. There are more steps, I have found it on reddit and can ask someone if you like to know and don't find it. But yes, it is not something you naturally stumble upon.

In my ending I did not have to kill Lae'zel, I know if you have her with you you can persuade her to be ok with killing Orpheus. I didn't have her with me and so it wasn't a problem either. I could persuade her to stay with me at the end and she was content with that, not following Orpheus or Vlaakith but just her own will.


I wrote it in my other post - we have no information (that I am aware of) about devil worshipping of the knights or the Emperor. And how he talks about Raphael and devils I highly doubt he would worship one. This devil worshipping is from outside the game source I think and I don't know if Larian kept it in the game. Doesn't look like it so I wouldn't put it against the Emperor. Same with the "true goal". Nothing in game that I am aware of (and I try to read everything I find) confirms this. They were a criminal organisation, they even have an assassination list, that much is sure.

There is a book in game that confirms that the Emperor eats criminals - convicted it seems as it was described the person he ate was wearing prisoner clothing. And here I disagree - I don't think the Emperor was always dishonest. He was trying to make us trust him and hiding his true form but that doesn't mean everything he said was a lie or that he was always dishonest. He tells us he is like us (he was an adventurer before and it has a double meaning because we are like him (at least part) Illithid), that he wants to be free, that the tadpole is not an usual one, that it can't be removed without killing us, that we find answers in moonrise towers, that the Gith should not get the artifact, that he prevents us from turning into a mind flayer and become a thrall.... that is all true.


Omeluum is different but as the Emperor says (and what is true about every human as well) - there are different ones. Omeluum and the Emperor are both renegades and special but different.

No I didn't had to kill Lae'zel as I wrote above. The Devil thing is not in game and we don't know if Larian kept it so no issue for me. I don't think the Emperor is evil though, not good either actually but compare him to Gortash and Orin and tell me he is like them? As you said, the guild and Zhentarim are criminals too and the guild still cares about the city and helps fight for it. Baldurs gate is corrupt, but that doesn't mean the Knights were actually harming the city - as I said, in game book says no nefarious intent could be found.

Ok that is game play reason to not like the Emperor - I did not fight him and still found the end battle nice with the time limit and the dominated dragon and saving the world at the end.



To be honest I don't really care about Lae'zel. I even had to make sure I don't get her killed in the beginning because I won't turn against the tieflings and are not watching her fighting against them. And from my characters point of view I don't even get the hammer because we can still get it later and free Orpheus. When did Lae'zel helped me when I needed it most? Depending on how you play but I had her barely with me and she even tried to kill me before. So basically I don't trust Lae'zel too much.

Also stupid that we can't just resurrect Orpheus.

I guess his compassion ends if you have a tadpole in your head but are not turned yet. Because he will not save you as the game shows us.


I agree that they need to flesh Orpheus out more and it would be good to have an alternative to the Emperor earlier. They praise all the different paths but with the Emperor players are kind of railroaded, that is true. I wouldn't even mind to have Orpheus as romance option.... they also need to rework if you play as gith, from what I heard it really feels like you barely are recognized, only Lae'zel. That is disappointing.

So I think we actually agree a lot but interpret the Emperor differently. Maybe I am biased because I really liked my dream guardian (that voice is amazing) and like the Emperor too. I see his flaws however and understand if people don't like him because of his actions. I just think some things are open to interpretation and it isn't necessarily always meant to be evil and manipulative - there is also room for him to show genuine feelings and care if you interpret it that way and there is also room for these different views.

Sorry if I won't answer directly on new postings from you, I have very little free time due to real life and need some time to play the game too - but I will be back

The Emperor isn't a devil worshiper - it's more like Krolla. The secret lord of the shield is a devil who is seeking to become a god with the portfolio of corruption. Gargauth doesn't really care about the things that the Knights care about - getting rich, gaining new lands and aristocratic titles - he cares about corrupting the governments of Faerun. So while the members of the Knights have the same aims as the members of the Zents and Guild the true aim of the Knights is political corruption just as the Zents were once concerned with spreading Bane's tyranny.

By corrupting Stelmane he is advancing the cause of Gargauth and helping him move from demi god to god.

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Gargauth

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Knights_of_the_Shield

I think had already responded to that with my 'lawyerly' comment earlier but, again, that's a very lawyerly reading and one I think any fair judge would rule against. In that sentence "IT" clearly refers to the tadpole. And, at best, it's a half truth.

I think if you find such sentence construction truthful you have to likewise conclude that Mizora was telling the Wyll the truth about Karlach. Karlach is indeed heartless

I don't think he would do anything to empower a devil.

You could also say that taking over the knights by enthralling the (possibly devil worshipping) Duke might have steered the order away from their original goal and allowed him to do something better for his city. It doesn't look like was interested in riches but to have influence over the city. And in the ending he says "his city" so it seems he as a certain attachment to the city.

Yes, the IT definitely means the tadpole as he was talking about that just a sentence before. That much is clear. Still, there is a difference to Mizora/Karlach. Mizora is technically right that Karlach has no heart but because of that either Wyll is punished or Karlach has to die while with the guardian it doesn't really matter. He could have said, "Like you I seek to get my freedom back and not become a thrall to the Absolute" and it would change nothing - aside from you not being able to find some dishonesty in this line.

What he means of course is not the tadpole but the enslavement by the elder brain. He does sees you already as (part) Illithid and says so later - he is just a little further in his evolution process. So I see that this sounds like a lie (and technically is) but for him I think isn't really, as tadpole just means enslavement and this true for both him and you. I also personally don't mind as he was hiding his identity and so while he could have avoided it by choosing a different way to say it, it doesn't really change what he meant for me - he wants freedom, so do I.

It is possible that he believes or knows a cure is indeed possible - the ceremorphosis process is stopped by him / Orpheus powers and we see in the end that the brain can be commanded to kill the tadpole. Meaning even if he was tadpoling us (but we don't know 100% if that was him) and asks us to use the tadpoles and their powers he might know that we can be cured later, so no actually harm is done. But he does prefer us as Illithid / part Illithid at least because we get more powers and are more likely to get the job done.

Still, there is a lot unclear and we can only speculate.

If you want to see The Emperor as good - as it want you see it - that's great. That's fun for you. OF COURSE this is all IMO. It's video game forum and this is all interpretation of text that has multiple authors, has been revised several times and is designed to support different playthroughs. We're all staring at ink blocks.

That doesn't mean I'm not going argue vigorously I do think I'm right! But I also enjoy hearing about your experience. But, yes, yes, yes we all just talking about interpretation. It's just a game.

As DM I would totally accept that from a player and remove the alignment violation check away from the character sheet. But - and I'm going to have to bleed over into your #2. Yes, mind flayers - with a handful of exceptions - are intrinsically evil. They create thralls, dominate and feed on others. Omelleum's do exist but they are exceedingly rare.

(and the emperor isn't an Omelleum - he acts like a independently evil mind flayer)

So swallowing tadpoles - inching closer to becoming a creature without an apostolic soul - is something that threatens alignment. And doing while being manipulated by an evil mastermind should impact DM rulings I think good roleplay would involve discovering evidence of the emperor's evil and finding a way to cut the strings.

Omelleum's alignment is true neutral. As he is listed in the FR books. (with a different name) Omelleum joined a scholarly society, he has tried to find a moral alternative to brains and has come up with the same one I use with Astarian: if they attack your party you can feed.

The emperor is evil. Yes because he is a mind flayer - which are evil monsters - but because he does not act like Omelleum. He acts like a Manshoon or other evil mastermind. Is he nice to us if we are nice to him? Sure, the same way I'm nice to scratch. If we are good we get scritches but if we make master mad . . . Btw, did you notice that if you click on the dog collar in his lair you automatically put it on? Read that interaction again keeping in mind that the believes that Illithid are the superior species. He likes us if we act like a good girl.

Omelleum-

No thralls
No domination
Solitary study
Tries to help extract tadpole
No evidence of belief in the superiority of illithids
Constant search for alternative to brains

Emperor

Thralls
Controls diabolic criminal organization
Dominates and manipulates others
Believes mind flayers are a superior species
Encourages Tav to become half illithid
Ranches humanoids

Let's be clear - there is no doubt in the FR lore that the Knights are an evil organization. AGAIN, I am not saying The Emperor is a devil worshiper, I'm saying he works for a devil. The purpose of the Knights of the Shield is Garguth's purpose. Just like in 3.5 DnD the purpose of the Zhentarim was the purpose of the Church of Bane.

Was The Emperor (TE) "worshiping a devil" by corrupting the leadership of Baldur's Gate? No but he was advancing the interests of devil. If the BG did not engage in corruption the leadership would have been removed - TE would have lost its position. And a mind flayer in an excellent corruption agent.

To belabor the point - TE might not have known but he would have been replaced as leader if Garguth wasn't happy. The Knights do what The Shield tells them to do.

Sure, as you suggest, Larian could have changed the lore. But they didn't. Why have the Knights and some other random criminal organization? Why make the corruption of BG's leadership be part of the story? Why have Wyll comment on it? Wyll's story - what little of is left of it - is about discovering that the Knights were at the heart of corruption in city. The leader of Knights made a duke into a thrall, smuggled, killed the protector of the city. TE was an end boss before the dead three strolled back into town.

And no, I don't think the Emperor is good. I see him as neutral. He is not evil - he isn't doing to people what Gortash or Orin is doing.
He does not kill or dominate everyone around us. We only know about the Duke but even then a lot of things are unclear. There is no information that he was dominating others or had other thralls.
We do know that he had opportunities to kill innocents and didn't do it - like the one eye witness - he could simply have killed him, it was even a security issue for him but he didn't. He could kill or dominate us in the end (especially if playing solo) - he doesn't. He is actually quite nice to someone who even tried to kill him before at the end, hoping they will find the allies they desire in the future. And we know that his actions during his knights of the shield time was not seen as nefarious by others.

Additionally and contrary to your points Omeluum vs Emperor - he eats brains, yes, so does Omeluum. But the Emperor says and we know this is true because we have an eye witness, eats condemned (sentenced to death) criminals. We have no proof that this is not true. You choose to believe Omeluum when he says he only eats those against the society (whatever that means) but choose to see the Emperor as liar.
He believes he is superior to his former self because he has now other abilities and powers and can think faster (and fly and read minds, and use telekinesis). He was a fighter before, not a wizard. But he is not wrong - if we use the tadpole powers we are getting stronger, more powerful. The Emperor is right when he says that increases our chances to defeat the brain. He is clearly against the grand design and the usual mind flayer goals. And as being half illithid is not an issue at all in this game and you are cured at the end, it is hard to argue against using the tadpoles. It has no negative impact. If this was the case and the Emperor was clearly hurting us with asking us to take tadpole powers it would be a different story. But it isn't. You are already carrying a tadpole - as I said - take more tadpoles, it doesn't matter if you are going to be cured anyway or if there was no cure you would turn eventually so taking more tadpoles or being half Illithid wouldn't make a difference either.

Regarding the knights - sorry but we have to agree to disagree here. I can't fault the Emperor about something he can't know. And there is no proof the devil was even able to get him replaced. He is trapped in a shield. He can communicate it seems but that doesn't mean he can do a lot of other things. And contrary to your speculation that is not supported by any text in game, there is a in game note that says that the Emperor did not do any nefarious actions. I think that speaks for itself.

I am glad we agree that Omeluum is a good one (or neutral, that is fine). Now, that is just me trying to be funny and at the same time trying to visualize how I experience the Emperor prejudice - let me write what I suspect a typical Emperor hater would write about Omeluum if he was faced with the same prejudice and hate:

- He worked with a lich! A lich! Lichs are evil - that is canon, so Omeluum was working for someone evil, hence Omeluum is EVIL
- He says he only eats brains of people that are against the Society. He doesn't say the ones that ATTACK the society. So if someone just has a different opinion he kills them too! He says it practically.
- The society is not a good organisation, some people there are evil! They abused the poor Gith kid. So again, Omeluum is with a evil organisation!
- He makes us interested in a ring that might help us (MANIPULATION!) and then admits that it didn't do anything! This was dangerous, we could have relied on that ring! He is also LYING to us! He is so dishonest - everything he says can't be taken for the truth, it is all a lie and manipulation!
- He disguises himself so people don't recognize him in the city - again MANIPULATION, he is not showing his true self!
- Did I mention that he is a MIND FLAYER? They eat BRAINS - EVIL!!!!!
- We don't know if he dominated people before or had thralls before - who says Blurg is not a thrall?!
- His extraction of the tadpole made it worse! I had no powers before because I never used a different tadpole and after Omeluum I had! And it even says in the game the tadpole is stronger now!


So, sorry and again, I hope you don't take it seriously and I don't mean you. It is just the normal crazyness dealing with a lot of anti Emperor postings I see popping up (e.g. on reddit).

I just wish people hating the Emperor wouldn't often come up with such strange reasons for hating him. I mean, it is ok to hate him, no justification at all required. It is also understandable to ask for improvements. But I think there is no such exaggeration with any other character - they lie, they manipulate, they say evil things, do evil stuff and no one bats an eye. But the Emperor says one half truth and some people start to post that he is always lying...