Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion Is Astarion really a pansexual?

I think it's fine as-is, and makes the most sense.

To me, Astarion has always come off as someone primarily attracted to men over women - but, given how his life has been for the past 200 years under Cazador's thumb, he likely wasn't allowed much of a choice in the matter of who he was allowed to bed/who he had to bring back for Cazador.

To give a personal example as to why he reads this way to me: I'm technically bisexual, and have only really dated men in my life (however sparsely I dated at all). That said, I consider myself a lesbian in practice - I prefer women both on a physical and emotional scale, and while I'm in the asexual spectrum, I still know I've rarely ever looked at my past male partners and felt physical attraction to them. It was purely emotional attraction, while we were together. And at this point in my life, if I ever do date anyone again, it'd be a woman. I just don't want nor care for a relationship with a man anymore.

That doesn't really mean I can't find men attractive at all... but, for the most part, I've only ever seemed to find fictional men physically attractive.

I kind of view Astarion as being similar to myself, just flipped; he likely only feels both physical and emotional attraction to men, but over the 200 years he was having to bring people back to Cazador and essentially sell his body out to do so, he can likely at least manage an emotional attraction to a woman, even if it may not fully extend to physical attraction. I think if you put a male and female Tav with him, and they both tried to romance him, he would be more partial to a male Tav over a female Tav. That doesn't mean he can't feel anything for a female Tav at all... just, that preferences would still create a bias.

Which, while we can go into the depiction of pansexuality as a result of trauma being potentially harmful to write... at the end of the day, you can still romance him as a female Tav and, from what I've seen, his relationship isn't any different than if it's a male Tav. Me, personally? I just romance him with a male Tav because it makes the most sense in my mind.

(I may come back and rewrite some of this later after work, when I have more time and my brain has actually had time to wake up properly. This post feels messy, sorry about that!)

Good, for you, and believe me I'm happy that you like it the way it is. But, I do not. I do not play male characters unless it is the only option in the game, basically, I always play myself in every game (lack of imagination, I guess).

I do not want to get in to the psychology of pansexuality or some such. Neither one of us is a clinical psychologist (at least not me) to debate on the subject. So all of it would just boil down to a personal experiences and opinions that may vary drastically.

I do agree with Rotsen, he posted right before you, that Larian lied for the sake of marketing in a bid to sell as many copies as they can. Which they should, they are in it for the money after all, but that doesn't change the fact that they intentionally misrepresented some aspects of the game (in my case Astarion).

Astarion was clearly written to be a "men guy" and was only "converted" to pansexuality for the sake of "everyone can romance" him. They made him romancable for everyone, but without making any changes to his story arc to make a female romance BELIEVABLE. It's like - "oh, look, the guy has been into men his whole life until he met a female PC, and then he had a REVELATION that he is, apparently, a pansexual!!!" How convenient and a very lazy effort on Larians part.

I agree with you and thank you for the introduction

Yes, it was a cheap way for Larian to lure in all the female players who bought the game just for the possibility of romancing him. I just hate the way they did it, though. Astarion's female romance feels like an afterthought, a cheap way to rake up more sales. I mean, they've put a ZERO effort into fem/Astarion romance to make it logical and believable. I'm sure his male romance plays much more fitting given what is in his personal history, but the female doesn't fit at all.

Aye, Astarion will be Lae'zel's first choice (in my experience) if you choose anyone else than her or Astarion. And unlike with Wyll, it actually happens (Wyll just talks with her). However, this can easily be excused by Astarion taking the opportunity to do the same with Lae'zel as he would with Tav. She is after all a very strong warrior and a perfectly fine option to try seduce for protection if Tav isn't interested.


And this more or less highlights the issue I can support. All companions are written to treat the player character the exact same no matter the choices you make in character selection (with the exception of class, and sometimes race, mainly Githyanki I think). The only thing that will matter otherwise is your in-game choices. So the dialogue remains the same no matter who you romance him as. That's also how the game is advertised and as far as I know it works just fine for all other companions (if you can accept the Gale/Mystra situation).

Therefore, if a male Tav roleplayer will get the feeling that Astarion is interested in them emotionally and physically, but a female Tav roleplayer only gets the feeling that he's interested in them emotionally, then I can fully understand people have an issue with that.


Or you just imagine yourself being a lot of different things. Nothing wrong with that.

They're all victims, he wasn't into any of them. And when he could still be bothered to choose, he says he tried to choose "beautiful people", not "beautiful men." But it's a fact that men would be easier to pick up the way he did was doing it.

As for remembering 2 out of 1000 victims, he remembers more. When you find them in Cazador's basement he says he remembers all of those faces. We concentrate on Sebastian because Sebastian is the one who talks to us. The actual problem here is that Cazador's mansion in half assed and the devs just threw a few npc models into one little cell and called it a 1000 spawn.

Bi and pan also isn't 50/50 irl. Having some preference for men doesn't mean he's meant to not want women.

People seem to misunderstand to issue here, it has nothing to do with a playersexuality. It has everything to do with a fact that Larian deemed appropriate to make a clearly "one sexuality oriented" guy as a romance option for traditional female player. There is nothing in Astarion's past story to indicate that he is even remotely interested in females. Nothing.

Please, if I missed something then bring it to light. I have a friend who is of the same particular orientation as Astarion, and I can assure you that under no circumstances he would ever consider getting in to the relationship with a opposite sex.

The problem here is not Astarion's orientation, but the fact that Larian didn't change his story to fit role-playing a female romance with him. With the way his story is presented in the FULL RELEASE game, I just don't see how it's even feasible for him to romance anyone but a male.


Unless his story is corrected to show more of sexual preferences (different romances in his past for example), it is all one-sided.

He says "beautiful people" it is one of the excuses I used to make myself . And he says he remembers many of these faces, not all.

My point is exactly this, Larian could've made Sebastián a woman, because there was already a man in Astarion's past. But they didn't, did they. They could've made an unknown female to carry the conversation, but they didn't. There is no variation in Astarion's past lovers that HE himself tells you about, they are all men. It is in the game. I don't need to make things up, Larian made it for us, I'm just stating what is in the game.

I'm also not sure, what do you mean by it was easier for him to pick up? If anything I'd say it would be easier to pick up a female, than a male just based on a real world statistics. The vast majority is hetero and I dont see how any straight man wouldn't tell him to get lost right off the bat .

Well, beautiful people and that lady in the cell are also in the game.

EldrichBlast already mentioned how men would be easier targets for him.

I romance Astarion every time as a female Tav and my thoughts boil down to this:

Sex is a tool for him. Once his traumas broke him down, he never needed an emotional connection to seduce anyone. So, to him, having a gender preference would likely be a barrier for him to use his talents effectively.

I don't think it's likely Larian thought there would be much men interested in romancing Astarion. Since gay/bisexual men are still a minority in any demographic, I'm positive Larian knew their male audience would likely prefer romancing Shadowheart over all others (and if so, they were absolutely correct).

Which means, in my opinion, they knew the primary audience for romancing Astarion would be female. To drive home his pansexuality and reinforce the fact that sex is likely a meaningless prospect for him, they made the suitors most mentioned male.

I think the most important aspect as to why I still believe the female Tav romance to be believable is the way he talks about his previous conquests. None of them have any meaning. Sebastian and the nameless boy are all he can remember. But he LOVES you. He develops and emotional connection with you so strong that he almost refuses to put you in a sexual context until he knows he'll feel something during, making the graveyard scene much more meaningful.

I think the fact that he never talks about his male sexual partners with any fondness but that he can't help stumbling and falling for you speaks to his pansexuality and that female Tav holds great emotional significance; the first woman who ever mattered to him.

I'll just point out that "Handsome" doesn't incline that it's necessarily a man he's talking about. This term has become something we see as very masculine even though it really isn't.
Minthara even makes this point in the game when you click a certain mirror and she goes something along the lines of "This would have been a beautiful mirror once, and I would have struck a handsome reflection"

There's also banter where Astarion tells Wyll he'll only come to his wedding if he can sit next to Mizora, and he says this in a very flirty sort of manner.

Stephen Rooney ( the writer of Astarion ) did say in an interview that Astarion did manifest himself as "a man of all the appetites" very naturally, and I can see this, personally.
He's here to live life to the fullest, all things considered.

I don't know, I can see where you're coming from but I think there's plenty of indications in the game that he's leaning both ways, as he was intended.

That is really not much to go on by. Don't you think?

I don't know what you and EB mean by "it would be easier for him to pick up males". No, it wouldn't be so at all, for the majority of people around are of traditional views, so it only leaves Astarion with females and non-traditionaly oriented people. So, make your conclusions.

You will never hear anything from Minthara or about her, unless you go full evil run. So, majority of people wouldn't know it.

However, I do agree that the word handsome used to describe both males and females features, but not anymore, thou

I'm not putting my feelings in to the argument, I'm just going by what the game is clearly showing us. And what I see is what I wrote in the original message, is that Astarion is half-baked for a female romance. People put a lot of variables in to the argument here, if do this someone will say that or do this... Well, it could be true, but one doesn't have to matagame to confirm any point of view. All those examples in my op (except the handsome guy) will play out for every PC romancing him, so that is what EVERYONE will see, you can't miss it in his romance, unless you try .

I have a really hard time finishing Astarion's romance because of this, it completely takes me out of the setting. Naturally I find it difficult not to orbit the rest of the male romances (apart from Halsin who unfortunately has his problems too) because they feel more organic. I only play female Tavs and I admit that this bothers me because I love Astarion but there are times when his romance doesn't feel natural at all and it totally takes you out of the immersion in the story. Now I play a Tav dark urge to see if the sensation improves.

I think they didn't put much thought into female players in general - Astarion's mentioned problems plus him ending, Halsin having a lousy romance... and we only have 4 options

Really, well I do not see it that way at all. What I see is a clear preference for him to choose males over females.

Let me ask you, would you in real life try to pursue a guy who is talking about and sleeping around with men mostly? Do you feel like you'd be attracted to a guy who is clearly leaning the other direction?

All that " he develops deep connection with PC", well, he develops it with anyone you play, as long as you choose to romance him. That doesn't change the fact that his prior history has him falling for men only, at least from what he tells us. And I think that he talks about both of them (Sebastián and the darling boy) with compassion and a former lover passion.

Of course, Astarion will talk to a PC with more passion and attachment, because you're here and now, and they are dead and in the past

I just had that scene and it didn't really sound. like he was in love with those people. He expresses pity, but the way he phrases it, they were just conquests for Cazador:



I think, he mostly looked for people, that might not be so easy missed - I remember, he told me something along the line. So it didn't matter, if they were male, female, binary, old, young, beautiful or ugly, they just had to be available and in teh best case loners.
We only see 4 out of the - what, 200? 300? - people, that Astarion brought Cazador, so not much to go on with imo.

To be fair the ladies all have some mentionables as well.
That however doesn't mean we shouldn't consider all potential issues as issues.

Astarion is obviously gay.

I really dislike the playersexual approach. I understand why the choice was made, but gosh if I don't think it hurts the story and the characters' identities.

We have 9 options? Where did you get the 4 options? Everyone has 9 options. And it is nowhere stated that you have to choose your romance after your real life perference. I choose mine with the story in mind. I'm lesbian irl, but my DUrge Suri is romancing Astarion, because storywise he just makes so much sense for a good, resisting Durge.

You're missing the point, it doesn't matter how many of them we see, it matters who we see and hear about, and they are all males, except that Lady in the cell, who also looks conveniently like a dude .

Perception of what he sounds like will be different to every person, so it's not an argument here. You perceive it as a pity, I see it as a grief for a lost former lover.

Thank you.
A plain, straight and simple answer, from someone who can see things from the outside (I can only assume that you're not romancing him) the box.