Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion Is Astarion really a pansexual?

Again, 4 out of a thousand. But have it your way then, it seems, you don't want to discuss, you just want blow of steam, I leave you to it then. And I don't mean that in a mean way, really. It just seems, that there is nothing I or anyone else can say to convince you otherwise.

Wait, who's nr. 9? Or do you count the Emperor?

And I agree, Astarion probably works best for resist Durge. Shadowheart works very well with it too (and personally I think Karlach as well just because she's so wholesome) but the writer for Astarion worked on Durge so he has a lot more Durge specific dialogue.

I do feel it's not necessarily wrong for someone to prefer keeping their choices to what they feel comfortable with IRL though, but I think 4 is still more than enough to choose from even if they have some issues (since they all do, to some extent).

What do you mean by '"Do you count the Emperor?" Ofc he counts.

4 is all you see in the game, though. My point is they could've made it look different by they chose not to.

I'm not blowing steam at all, I'm as cool as a cucumber.
So far, I haven't seen any convincing facts presented. It's all -"I think, my feelings, if you metagame then..."-

Please, I'm more than happy to be convinced otherwise, I'm actually hoping for it, to be honest. But so far it's not happening.

But, thank you for your dismissive and patronizing words.

No, Astarion flirts with both Shadowheart and Lae'zel too. The fact that Wyll also does this is irrelevant. In fact, Wyll and Gale can't sleep with Lae'zel because they only want to talk, whereas Astarion is the only one who will actually have sex with her.



Er, no, the point is that two out of one thousand is not a pattern at all. And those are only the two he just so happens to mention. He said that there were others besides Sebastian who he felt extreme guilt over, and doesn't mention their sex, so for all anyone knows some of them were female too.

And regardless of what it seems to you, Astarion says flat-out that you're the first person he has ever truly cared about if you romance him. That's a pretty clear indication that what he felt for his past victims wasn't love. He likely never even knew them long enough to form a genuine connection. You don't need to be in love with someone in order to feel bad about destroying their life.


You're arbitrarily giving major importance to trivial things that fit your narrative and ignoring things that don't. Why does his flirtation with women "not count?" Why does the woman in the cell "not count?" (She doesn't even look like a man at all??) Why does the fact that he will HAVE WILLING SEX WITH A WOMAN "not count?" He can turn you down at the party if your approval isn't high enough, so clearly he won't sleep with literally anyone just because they ask, there needs to be some level of attraction for him. Hell, if you sleep with Mizora he even says he's jealous you didn't invite him to sleep with her too.

I could maybe understand if he had somewhat of a preference for men, as not all bisexual people are an even 50/50, but he clearly has a demonstrated interest in women too. That's a fact evidenced by what we see in the game. You wanting to die on this really weird hill doesn't change that.

I didn't even think about the Emperor, make that 10 then. I thought about Minthara, who has a romance, right?

Edit: nevermind, I just miscounted.

Ok, that wasn't meant patronizing, if you took it that way, I'm sorry. I just really thought, you want to get that out of your system.
But what I see, is you doing the same of what you are accusing the other poster here: you think, he is gay, because you saw 4 out of 1000 victims - victims, not lovers, victims! Do you think, he would send people, he really care for, to his master? You think, he is gay, because you see 3 males, so yeah, this is pretty much you, being subjective here. Like we all are.
I don't really care about Astarion or his orientation, but if you agree with JandK, then make a male character to romance him. Everyone has the right to play the game as they like. And since we don't get much info about how he searches his victims, we all can just assume here. He does say, that he didn't enjoy the conquests and the sex though - if I can trigger that conversation again this playthrough or anotehr one, I'm more than happy to share a screenshot.

Lmao.

There should be some mindflayer on mindflayer action in the epilogue.. assuming there isn't, I actually don't know for sure.


Aye, Minthara makes it 8 (4 women, 4 men), Emperor would make it 9. Can always return to Haarlep for 10 though, assuming Hope kept him around. Or convince Mizora, as she did seem to enjoy herself.

Actually on-topic: Doesn't he mention in act 2 that he didn't feel anything during sex with the victims? Should count for something. Sure, it's still all implications while the only thing you do see/hear is about men, but at least it's pretty heavily implied that there were women, and that he didn't really enjoy it in the first place but had to do it anyway.

That was the quote, Iwas looking for - I remembered, he said that in my first playthrough, but I don't have a screenshot. Talking about lovers is also wrong in this case, since those were victims, nothing more. He was shocked to see Sebastian, because he was one of his first victims and is now captive for 170 years (I just had the scene).

Originally Posted by JandK
Astarion is obviously gay.

I really dislike the playersexual approach. I understand why the choice was made, but gosh if I don't think it hurts the story and the characters' identities.


Thank you.
A plain, straight and simple answer, from someone who can see things from the outside (I can only assume that you're not romancing him) the box.


----------------


I've read through this whole thread and after seeing these two comments I found the real issue. Stereotyping.

"Astarion IS gay end of discussion" has been said in one way or another all over the internet and it's a problem. Declaring Astarion gay shows your asses. Not only can you not wrap your brains around bisexuals existing outside of a binary presentation but you have a some lesbophobia and homophobia to work through too. coding ? pure stereotypes. Making a post about Astarion (quotes from discussions elsewhere but relevant here) "not really being bi/pan", "is gay-coded", and/or "how weird it is to see him be romanced by feminine Tavs", then you should really expect people to get upset and accuse you of being bi/pan phobic because that is literally bi/pan erasure.
It doesn't matter that Astarion is theatrical or that he shares his history about two specific men from his past. That doesn't change the fact that he is canonically pansexual. He flirts with just about everyone in the party, including Shadowheart and Lae'zel, and can potentially sleep with Lae'zel if neither are romanced. He flirts with Tav, regardless of what gender identity they are.
If it's weird for you that people who play as feminine characters would romance Astarion instead of someone more "straight presenting" like Gale, for an example (which is dumb, too, he's also bi/pan), then that sounds more like a personal problem that you should definitely work through.

Please understand basic queer stereotypes and how they are evidently rooted in hetero-normativity and not “queer culture”.

“The tall muscular woman must be a lesbian for no reason other than her physical appearance and the over-dramatic pretty man must be gay because how could he be frivolous and also like women? Only big strong stoic men can be attracted to women.”

You hear how that sounds, right? “But Astarion liked a guy! He’s gay!” Congratulations, you discovered pansexuality.

Accusing Larian of misrepresenting a pansexual character as pansexual is... well, a choice.

THANK YOU. I am so, so tired of how rampant biphobia is everywhere, apparently even in the fandom for a freaking video game. It's pretty telling that people will get so up in arms about Astarion being with a woman but not about Gale being with a man even though Gale makes no specific mention of past male lovers. Bisexuals and pansexuals have the right to exist without conforming to what any one person thinks they "should" be like. Insisting that Astarion is gay when there are multiple examples of evidence to the contrary in the game itself is honestly pretty gross. If a male character will have willing sex with a female character and you still can't wrap your head around the fact that he's pansexual just because he's flamboyant or because he didn't specifically mention a girlfriend from his past (nevermind the fact that he doesn't mention a boyfriend either because victims are not lovers), then the problem lies with YOU, not the writers at Larian.

I didn't say that it doesn't count, I specifically mentioned the woman in the cell myself. And pointed out that it is the ONLY woman in any way associated with Astarion. As for flirtatious banter I don't take it into the account one way or the other, whether it's with males or females. It can be considered an empty words, for all we know. That is why I didn't bring it in my op post at all, until it was mentioned by others.

Astarion saying that PC is the first person he truly cares for is the only indication that he didn't get too emotionally attached to the people before. However, doesn't change the selection of people in his past.

In any CASE, my OP is NOT ABOUT THE STORY FLOW of PC and Astarion romance, but the PREREQUISITES to it, where it is CLEARLY TIED to MALES ONLY. My beef is with the WAY LARIAN PRESENTED HIS PAST NOT HIS CURRENT RELATIONSHIP WITH PC.

If you would actually read my OP, you'd see that what I am talking about is his story line prior to meeting PC. Based on which it is hard to believe that he is into women in the first place. I have no quarrels with the relationship itself, but with the fact that it would be a long shot for them to get into the said relationship, based on the way his story prior to meeting PC is written.

I disagree, obviously. You call it stereotyping, I call it the writing of the character.

As for the "expectation" that I should be called somethingphobe... I do not expect that. In fact, I'd argue that it's an unnecessary insult. In fairness, though, it doesn't bother me to be called names. I just wanted to point it out as an insult for sake of keeping the discussion positive, if possible.

He also says that most of them didn't even grant him a temporary bliss.

I disagree, obviously. You call it stereotyping, I call it the writing of the character.

As for the "expectation" that I should be called somethingphobe... I do not expect that. In fact, I'd argue that it's an unnecessary insult. In fairness, though, it doesn't bother me to be called names. I just wanted to point it out as an insult for sake of keeping the discussion positive, if possible.[/quote]


Where are you called names?

I have nothing against gays, queers, lesbians, bi, pans and anything that there is.

What I'm saying is that his past story prior to meeting PC is tailored in a specific way. And it is hard, for me as trad female to imagine that he will be interested in pursuing a relationship with a female, with his back story written the way it is.

Also, I don't mind him liking a guy, as long as there is a woman in the story, which there isn't any. That is the reason. It has EVERYTHING to do with the fact that there no REPRESENTATION of a single woman in his past.

To paraphrase, the comments about "not being able to wrap brains around..." and the bit about being "bi/pan phobes..."
Talking about how expressing an observation "shows your asses..."
Having "lesbo and homophobia issues to work through..."

Exactly - they were victims, not lover.

Snip the back and forth yeah-butism and lastwordism. Unlike Red Queen's patience, I go to 6 month bans to permabans depending on the person.

The thread is running short on stuff to say so if you don't have something to say, don't write. Keep it on topic, next post that isn't gets the thread locked along with 6 months time to think about it.

I will agree with some here that it does seem like you're refusing to see the evidence of Astarion having preference for females too.
Why are you discarding everything that has been pointed out? Do you just want to be told that he's gay or?
Because that would be a flat out lie, I'm afraid.

There's plenty of nods to Astarion leaning both ways, on more than a couple accounts. As he was intended.
Just because Sebastian wasn't female or there weren't a square 50/50 male to female ratio in that one particular cell doesn't indicate that he prefers men.
Besides, that "sweet darling boy" and Sebastian is the same person he's talking about, they're not two different people.

In the end Astarion was written to be "a man of many tastes" (aka. leaning both ways) Which I think he definitely comes across as on more than one occasion. If someone begs to differ is irrelevant, really.
You're free to headcanon whatever you wish however.