Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion So well said

Baldur's Gate 3 Romance Just Isn't Interesting

I know a lot of people disagree and that is okay. Rare to find a reviewer willing to take a less popular direction on a popular game.

Tbh I mostly find romances in games not that important - Dragon Age is always named as the posterchild of romances, but it is basically giving the companions gifts, do their quest and then it is 'We bang, ok?'
I would say in BG3, that Astarion is thematical and storywise really well for a good, resisting Durge, as I just found out, by romancing him with my Durge - this is really meaningful. And I say that as someone, who is not a big fan of Astarion.
I could see romancing Shadowheart with a Selunite as being maybe impactful.
But mostly I don't care too much. I like the companions (apart from Halsin) and I'm ok adventuring with them and maybe I'll do a romance - my gith mage accidently started a romance with Karlach and I just thought why not? I like her, she is funny, could be worse. I know here are a lot of fan threads discussing every detail of a specific companion and how their romance could be better and I mean props to the people, who have that kind of energy, I haven't. I would generally love to have more interactions with the companions, maybe campscenes around the fire, discussing Voss coming to our camp and dropping the Orpheus bomb at Lae'zel, ELminster giving Gale bad news, brainstorming to help Wyll with Mizora ...

It is not, that I find them especially bad or so, I don't - I did the Shadowheart romance first and it was nice - and luckily without over-the-top sex scenes, but I'm not finding myself fangirling over Shadowheart now. Or Astarion. Or Karlach. I just thought, there would be more in terms of story with romanced characters.

Thanks, now I can’t unsee that and you’ve ruined my Jackie Collins fantasy

Seriously though, it’s a good perspective. I am not sure I agree with the idea that just because an option is there in a dialogue tree or elsewhere that all the options convey something about my character. The only portrayal of my character that I take from any dialogue or other choice is the one I actually made, all the others are for some other completely different character. I don’t have the issue that I think my character was thinking of, or considering, having sex with another character just because the option occurred. Some other Tav in a different multiverse was thinking about it, but not my Tav.

I don’t have to play the game like I am in the Faerûn version of grindr if I don’t want to. But I appreciate that some reviewers put some focus on the issue that the hype around the romances and sex isn’t always what it is cranked up to be.

Always love me some Yahtzee. His takes are pretty much always great.

I'll have to agree and disagree both.

I agree wholeheartedly with the point he makes at the end by saying that there should be significantly more 'friend' scenes. Gale's stargazing scene unromanced (before patch 3) was sweet. Same with talking to Lae'zel about abandoning Vlaakith in act 3. The game needs more of those.

On the other hand, his examples are either misunderstood or correct but outdated. Yes, Lae'zel will want some very quick. But it's made clear that it's just sex for the sake of sex. It's the start of the romance. You're nowhere yet at that point, it might just be a Githyanki thing. The concept of a 'one night stand' exists IRL for a reason. As for the Gale scene, they added exactly what he asked for. Wyll needs something like that too, though.

Regarding dialogue options existing to start romance - I don't think that's a problem whatsoever. There's a reason comedies like "What Women Want" exist - it's because we all think about things we will never act upon sometimes. Makes me wonder what his take on Dark Urge would be, because as we know, that gives you some rather interesting choices sometimes.

And in-game as it stands right now, if you do act upon them, the game will (as far as I know) only allow you to start romance with a few companions before the rest won't give you the option anymore. In most cases the limit seems two, Astarion seems to be able to make that three. I do think you can cheat into more but that's unintended (except Wyll, who seems to almost always show up in act 2 with his dance, but only after you turned down another and he became the 'second' option).

I both agree and disagree with that vid. Sure, romancing someone in DA or ME series is nice, but not necessary. Heck, I loved first Pillars of Eternity and it had no romance whatsoever, in Fallout games I avoid romances like fire (both the old and Bethesda abominations - but becoming a porn star in Fallout 2 was pretty funny lol). It's not a end all and be all kind of deal like the guy suggested.

But yeah, as a whole I will agree that romances in BG3 are... a bit too easy to achieve. And sure, it's in character for Lae or Astarion to want to bang you pretty quickly. But the rest? Like for some damn reason on all my runs I got that stupid Wyll dance even though my character romanced Astarion, seeing Wyll's hurt puppy eyes when you deny him hurts. But why does that happen to begin with? I never gave him, or Halsin any signs that I do wanna romance either of 'em.

And yeah, Halsin 100% is bugged. I can confirm it now. I avoided any flirty lines with him, didn't even use the 'I BEARly know you' line and yet he still comes to me in act 3 asking for a bang saying that I asked him about his love life (which I never did, avoided all of those lines and dialogue trees like fire) - and that is on Larian now to fix it. Situations like that shouldn't happen. If you reach certain approval point with a companion (aside Astarion and Lae - for them it makes sense like I wrote), they shouldn't be prostrating themselves before you trying to secure that magic cooch or ween like their life depended on it. You flirted with them before? Fine fine. Never flirted? Red zone, sure maybe Wyll could take you to the side (not a dance) and say that he has a crush on you or something.

Also, the game is indeed lacking scenes of genuine friendship and camaraderie. In ME series I felt no greater pleasure, as a damn woman myself, than securing both Miranda and Jacks friendships. Altho Jack is weird at some point, but still. Their friendship paths were so damn well written it makes me wish BG3 had it (for a while we did with Gale and Shadowheart, but SH is still the best possible friend you can have in the game - on Selune path at least). In ME series you could genuinely feel that over the course of the game all companions eventually get closer and become friends, even Ashley gets over her xenophobia! You can feel none of that in BG3, well, okay, only in some banters with Jaheira companions kind of feel like they're 'friendly-ish'.

Just gotta say, old school Bioware romance is goated. I really wish BG3 had something similar.

Imo I think the DA and ME games haven't aged very well when it comes to romance stuff either, I think it was just more of a new thing to a lot of people when those games came out so people were all like '' wow I can bang these people in my vidya game? '' much like how many people were blown away by Skyrim even tho Skyrim is barely a RPG compared to the previous games.
But Skyrim to many was their first ever RPG so everything was new.

I've gone into this in another thread so I won't do it here again but I just think the writing of romance subplots in RPG's feels very childish and more like horny teenagers.
I also think it can be seen in online discussions regarding it like people fetishizing Karlach as a '' muscle mommy '' and everything surrounding her romance basically being memes and '' ha ha so quirky ''.
There's rarely much actual emotional depth to them, it's mainly just sex and kissing which is not really what an actual relationship and love is about ( you don't even need to love each other to have sex lmao, and a ton of NPC's in the game want to have casual sex with you so it's not even unique to your romance partner ).

I know just calling things tumblr is a bit memey too but it does feel like '' tumblr romance fanfics '' with how it's treated in RPG's, it's usually just horny or '' tee hee he/ she's so embarrassed so cute ''.
Any depth there is too tends to be totally one-sided, while I do think there is some depth to Shadowhearts romance for instance and with Tav being there for her as emotional support I never really felt like she was there for Tav at all.
It's basically a one-sided be nice to someone to fill up their meter so they'll have sex with you.
People just seem to be more interested in a hug/ kiss camp option than actual meaningful writing.

I start mashing the right mouse button the moment I choose that dialogue option. Or just kiss him and then tell Astarion that you choose him over Wyll. For some reason The Blade takes being rejected this way much better lol. I have a feeling something is wrong with Wyll's flags too. It would make more sense for tbe dance to only happen if you flirted with him at the party, and/or told him you want to see a demonstration when he talks about dancing.

Overall I agree with everyone that the game lacks friendship, with and between the companions. And the romances lack actual romance.

It is an interesting video, I am pretty sure I posted it before.

My initial reaction was the same as yours, but the more I think about it, the more I think he might have a point.

Dialogue tree should be reactive - it should react to the character we created, and it should react to how we roleplay. Surely, the game should give me an option to claim I am an elf, if I am playing a dwarf. Or pick barbarian specific line, if I am a bard. Why should it give me an option to initiate shag with a companion, if I didn't indicate in any way that I am interested in romancing said companion? On a bigger picture, the more I thought about it, the more it explaned why I found BG3 conversations uninteresting. Most of the time, the game offers me options I simply never shown interest in.

I think of something like PoE1&2 - and why I love dliague trees in those. They track my choices of race and class and subclass, and build reputation build on my choices allowing me to delve even further into avenues I have been pursuing. It also responds to my reputation, and even with companion romance (as flawed as they are), companions initiate romance based on traits my character displays, meaning the characters who first show interest in romancing my NPC usually align with character I am roleplaying.

That's design I haven't been fond in Larian games in genneral - making all options always available to the player, no matter if it makes sense for character I am roleplaying.

You probably have a point having put a lot more thought into these things than I have. My priorities are not very focused on romance and sex in general. If I would do an estimate on how much time I invest in different choices in the game it would probably look something like this:

Who am I going to romance? - 30 seconds maybe? Perhaps I´ll just roll a dice (and re-roll if it ever comes up as Halsin )

What class will I use and what abilities and feats will I base my build on? - 4-6 hours

What dye am I going to put on this armor and what boots and gloves will match this set? - 48-72 hours minimum

I don't find the conversations uninteresting though. Sure they aren't the most realistic and usually filled with silly remarks, quips and exaggerations, but I am a bit of a casual so I roll with it, and every now and then they hit you with some really good stuff.

Agree! I like when there are a variety of dialogue options and don’t think of it as my Tav thinking every single option, only the one I pick.

Instead my main issue with the male romances in BG3 is that I have a hard time seeing my character agreeing to start a relationship with any of them (Gale is staring at the head of his ex at the start of his first romance scene, Halsin starts his romance by saying he doesn’t do relationships, etc.). I haven’t had this issue before with other games I have played that have romances.

I agree with this but honestly think this is more of a Tav problem than a companion problem. People want hug camp options (and mid-cutscene options), myself included, for emotional value, because a lot of the companions need us to support them through rough times. But when does Tav ever really need any emotional support? Normal Tav, never, really. And Dark Urge Tav does get some support, but even then it's rarely required. You get it during the act 2 cutscene (which I honestly feel was very well done and just makes me wish there was more; you keep hearing you're feeling sick in a resist run but this is the only time it's actually portrayed) and you get some non-romance specific supportive responses in act 3 (may differ per companion). The only other time I felt like it was romance specific was if you don't resist at the end of the story and come face to face with The one time that you genuinely should expect a seriously emotional reaction from your romance partner during Dark Urge , you do indeed get absolutely nothing.

There is of course room for them supporting your choices when they normally wouldn't have, but that's certainly not something they've delved into past just implying "they disapprove but your approval is high enough that they won't leave".

i agree most of the romances are busted once you get to act 3 and yes every character will be happy to get some, even if you are in a romance with another but that is because the game wasn't play tested

I find the romances very bad in this game. To the point that after a firts playthrough i never boder with them again.

Before point up why I think it's bad, let me say one thing. I hate the date sims romances in rpgs. It hurts the narrative as bad as any bad scrip. When you take any fiction, being a film, a book... Romance is there as part of the tale, not as a unrelated spin off. I really would like a game that set up a romance tied to the history and go with it.

That said, some games play this date sims better than others. Bioware games (DA, ME) that are very similar to this one in that part, do a decent job given the limited tools that a dating sims can have from a narrative perspective. In BD3 romances are totally like an alternative minigame without any meaning.

I think there's several reasons for that:

-Play a doll as main character. That is something that hurts the game narrative in general every time we have any emotional scene, with of course means all romances in particaular. Our PC is emotionless and mute, facial and body expressions are like 10% quantity and quality of the other characters (that are extremely good). In top of that they are muted so not even a good voice acting can save this lack of emotions (wich happens for example in cyberpunk, where they take the stupid aproach on make firts person even in cutscenes, but at least have a good voice acting)

-Romances don't have any interactions. They are a game apart from the game. No mission or event for a character change if you are in romance or not. One can think that many personal quest and event shuold take if your romance partnert is involved, but they not. Not to mention the end, wich doesn't give a shit about it (but that one is almost normal, as the end doesn't feature content at all for anything)

-Romance partnerts never rocognizes your character. They doesn't have a defined sexuality and like everything. Note that i don't enter in characters being gay, hetero, bi or have a crush for pretty stones, I don't care at all. But they should be conscious about their tastes and yours and comment aboiut it. Again the "doll PC", they don't care or noticing if your character is male, female, elf or dwarf. The game threads you all the same.

These are the main factors in my opinion. Firts one is a bad desing decision that affect the whole game. The others two make me think that romances are simple unfinished and never should have been in the game in the firts place

I mostly agree with this. The romance in this game has become one of the highlights of my playthroughs, simply because it sheds a lot of light on the characters we interact with, and this is one of the main appeal of the game for me. When you romance someone, you get to know more about their inner struggles and how love can shape them into a different (and sometimes better) person. I’m always going to be more invested in the character I’m currently romancing (duh). In that regard at least, I think Larian did a decent enough job.

The issue is that it definitely feels shallow at times because I think Larian focused more on the sex lol, it sells. There is also the lack of reactivity to the main story, as others have pointed out above. It makes the romance feel super disconnected with everything else. One example of this (which I'm very disappointed with) is when you play as The Dark Urge
That and numerous other instances makes me feel like my choice in romance has no impact whatsoever, so I get why people don’t bother. Also, I just want to say, the reason why most people choose to ask for a hug option instead of a complete romance overhaul is because we know it might be asking for too much. Some of us are trying to be realistic here. and hugs are nice XD

I understand that. Staying true to my character is a big part for me as well. Though I also like that my characters can have unexpected developments to their story from aspects of themselves that were maybe hidden before and I can work some things like that into my headcanon. Maybe my character isn't naive and sees through Astarion's initial trickery and subterfuge, and they would normally instantly turn them down. But given the circumstances they decide to play along just to learn more and then accidentally grow too close eventually. But if I dislike a character and don't find anything interesting about them, then I can't work with that. That's a matter of personal taste so we will have different feelings around what we can and cannot work with.

The reviewer is absolutely has fair arguments.

I personally wonder if we already pre-designed to expect Biowarean Design.

Also, we can mask off and stop pretending Andromeda is a bad game now? (It's a good game actually).

To be honest, I think most approaches to romances in games are pretty much boring, just because its nearly impossible to show all the different little things that come with real life relationship.

Like my better half and I have so many insider jokes that we developed over the last, phew, its already been nearly a decade. And those jokes just came from situations where both of us had some fun - in a game, it would kind of feel forced on you (maybe it could be a dialogue option, but still it wouldn't be *yours*).
Also its things like just getting a kiss or a hug out of nowhere or surprising each other with things we like (food, movies, music) that keeps the relationship so healthy, fun and enjoyable.

While I wish we could catch the magic happening in a real life relationship and transfer it to a game, I feel like it will always lack something - mostly because nowadays it seems like sex is incredibly important in gaming relationships, but to be fair, while I really love getting intimate with my better half, she and I share way more moments of joy than just that.
Sorry if this post is too personal.

It's been in my Steam library for ages, but I've been avoiding it due to the myriad bad reviews over the years. Maybe it's finally time to do an ME marathon with the Legendary Edition now that Dread Wolf may be vaporware.

Andromeda IS a very good game with fun gameplay and a good plot (with plotholes, obviously, but show me a game without them). With good romances too. And as a cherry on top - functional Mako, useful and a pleasure to drive.

I am sure you will enjoy it.